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Author Topic: "Meh"  (Read 7409 times)

Vic Van Meter

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Re: "Meh"
« Reply #15 on: 05 Nov 2013, 21:15 »

Right now I still enjoy logging in with my Pyre bros and having a roam. I'm not sure I can do eight hour roams and, I must admit, RP seems harder and harder these days - although I sink a lot of time into it.

I just don't RP with the same variety of people that I used to, and I don't know why... :(

As a relatively new outsider, it's probably EVE's forcible factionalism.  It seems like people are either forced to make UAD characters and then fight tooth and nail for a few quirks, or be prepared to turn most of their RP time into a fight.  It's just the nature of the players that the game caters to and CCP's way of handling, or not handling, lore.
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Ayallah

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Re: "Meh"
« Reply #16 on: 05 Nov 2013, 22:49 »

I was going to counterpoint you, then I realized fighting is pretty much synonymous with RP for me.

Just another form of pvp really.
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Mebrithiel

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Re: "Meh"
« Reply #17 on: 05 Nov 2013, 23:11 »

I've timed out a couple of times in the past. Mostly RL stuff getting in the way and lack of stability.

But I'm starting to fix RL and slowly rebuilt my love for the game. No idea how to RP Meb disappearing for so long, but it's good, because a lot of the new lot are now struggling to figure her out, while the old ones ("The Old Ones") are in certain places.

I quite enjoyed the quiet time with Moira, learning the ropes of FW from a frig/dessie perspective. They are an excellent bunch and it allowed me the ability to hop in when I could. I've just recently decided to go find someone to remind me of what Meb and I are good at. I didn't think I'd find camaraderie as good as Veto or some of the other past corps again, but it's amazing what you find when you look around and consider new avenues. It's gutting there isn't more Sani Sabik orientated corps around atm. I feel I've semi-abandoned them for a while now, but I try to keep Meb orientated and supportive of those, like yourself, who are vocal and representative. But as corps go, I think I hit gold with TS-F on soooooo many levels. It took a little look to see where Meb was and where she could be to find a perfect group that has now given me the amazing amount of energy to actually crash headlong back into the game again on all fronts, including RP. Hell, Mebs even posted in the Summit channel and IGS for the first time in years!

I really hope you find good direction Silas. To Meb, you're a pillar of Sani Sabik and an excellent refined image of the elite. I'll always support you OOC too and I've heard from a little bird that Sabbott has come back and taken the reigns of Blood Inquisition, if you're interested...   ;)

But for Meb and myself, we've found our new home for now  :cube:
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Aria Jenneth

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Re: "Meh"
« Reply #18 on: 05 Nov 2013, 23:18 »

Am I right about shit actually being better and more interesting and more dynamic years past?
It may be that the interactions themselves have become more familiar than you would like. Dynamics that seemed fresh years ago might dry up over time, not because they have gotten any worse but because they haven't changed very much. The RP springing from those dynamics might even have been better because fewer people that you interact with were so jaded about them.

The Amarr / Minmatar conflict, for example, isn't likely to end any time soon, and the arguments between the sides have crossed the same ground until they've worn deep grooves in the floorboards.

Then, also, Silas, the role you've adopted for your character seems (upon very superficial interaction) to badly want a mustache so she can twirl it. Yun Hee's powerfully negative, contempt-laden reactions are not mine, but Silas the character does seem as though she's been less interested in even power than she is in what she can get away with.

If that's a satisfying role (or semblance of a role, if my read is more of a mask than a reality), great. If not ... you may consider a role that doesn't cast Silas as an unambiguous, orphan-detonating villain. I've long found some of the most satisfying RP to be that which explores some of the darker shades of gray, but which remains in the domain of the antihero (admirable intent, on some level; highly questionable methods and outcome) rather than the out-and-out monster.
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BloodBird

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Re: "Meh"
« Reply #19 on: 06 Nov 2013, 02:09 »

--Incoming Bittervet, all hands to battle stations--

Is anyone else....EVE burnt out these days?

I feel like the amounts of RP butthurt and genuine caustic attitudes from many players, combined with the last few years of not-expansions and lack of content have been slowly but surely draining my interest, to the point I'm using my account more like an instant messenger chat program with occasional pvp than the all-immersive experience it once was for me.

What I'm having difficulty determining in an objective way, is whether my memories of things 'how they used to be' years ago were actually better than they are now, or if bittervet syndrome has taken hold in a scary and profound way. 


I realize my particular interests put me in an extremely small minority of eve players (RP, lore, etc).  I just feel like the current administration and direction of the game development just isn't interested in the things I'm interested in.  I remember strings of expansions where my and other players reactions were 'holy crap that looks cool! Look at all that new shit! Neat!'  and the last few years has been more 'hey look at all the new balance iterations, x thing is less broken now'

I'm trying really hard not to be jaded but I'm not doing a very good job of succeeding lately.  Playing this game for what is probably on average daily for the last 7 or 8 years I'm feeling incredibly 'meh' right now about justifying further investment of RL time and resources.

Am I right about shit actually being better and more interesting and more dynamic years past? 

Or do I need to up my dosage of HTFU and do other things in game? 

Moderator note I will happily accept HTFU or YDIW responses.

Welcome to my world, for the most part. My issue is not that "was things really better before" but more "things were better AND worse before".

In the "old days" the game was worse. The game itself has steadily improved, today it's likely as well as it has ever been. Graphics improve, UI improves, bugs are killed off, balance is balancing (or trying at least) things get added, even if slowly and so on. So there is little wrong with EVE as a game.

The player-base on the other hand is on average, horrible in comparison to how it was earlier. This is also combined with the game's age. Out of interest in not being modded and perma-banned I will leave my opinion on the player-base at this, but in short, the game's age, gradual evolution in player-base mentality combined with the game-engine's evolution has led us to some rather ugly truths and facts of life in today's EVE that is, in short, driving me off.

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Lyn Farel

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Re: "Meh"
« Reply #20 on: 06 Nov 2013, 05:22 »

I started playing EVE the week before Incarna came out. Right as I was starting, wide-eyed in this amazing game people were quitting over the whole "Greed" debacle or railing against the introduction of Avatars and CQ's. For me it was irrelevant, a whole new universe had opened up to me replete with it's own history of both NPC and PC interaction to delve into. It took me awhile to really get into the RP side of things beyond reading about it but from day one I was fascinated by the old stories and the fact that some number of the players from days of yore were still here and active. It has been a source of constant sadness how few of them are truly interacting with the game today and how RP in general has so little effect on the day to day of most of the game.

I think that the older players like yourself are an immeasurably valuable thing for us younger players. Not only do you contain the knowledge of what actually happened in the past you contain within your character histories the gravitas necessary to be our leaders and advisors. You Silas should be the head of a Blooder Alliance reaving through the stars not a two man corp pegged onto some silly named pvp alliance that could give a shit about "lolRP". Esna, you should be part of Mithra's Society or PIE or CVA or find some upstart young Amarr roleplayer with the time you do not have and teach him how to grow and be successful. We should be taking this game back from the mechanistic boring players, not just reacting to them as if they own EVE and it's future. When I think about RP in this game what sticks with me is that quote from the "Good RP Logs" thread where Graelyn recounts his "name". That is fucking awesome. Every once in awhile I go back and read it and think about how someday I too will be able to list my accomplishments.

I get that it is hard sometimes to have the time and put in the effort, like Merdanath was posting the other day. I tried to run my own alliance and create my own little slice but hit the brick wall of RL issues vs Executor/CEO. When it failed I had a choice, join some non-RPers and go farm C5's, make my own little 1-man corp and be sad and lonely or find a Corp that was close enough to what I liked and wanted to do and help them. I went with option number three and other than my steadfast desire to never wear aviator shades it has been a blast. Still don't have a ton of time to play but when I do I get the interaction I desire and contribute how I can to Corp goals. Someday I will have more time and will put any of the dozen of schemes I craft weekly into play.

Don't be discouraged. You are an awesome part of New Eden. I want to read of your exploits for years to come.

The thing is from experience, most players reach their golden age at 1-2 years of age, to 3-4 years. I would say most of them would be between 2-4 years of play. Past that, they usually end up into retirement.

My case for example, even if I have been a rather quiet element I have still left my mark here and there in the universe. I started playing late 2006 (Red Moon Rising -> Revelations), and joined Providence 6 months later only looking for RP, and there was that huge RP conflict for the control of Providence between CVA and UshraKhan. I fortunately picked up the good side and saw the last months of victory. Which was my nullsec era, and it was mostly free from cap warfare since barely a few titans existed ingame and motherhsips were utter shit. And capitals a lot rarer overall. Doctrines were a lot more interesting, with ships of the line formations and support.

Got into Aegis Militia, that was not at its best, and eventually was part of the executorship of the alliance for a bit of time because the core corp AMC totally burned out after yet another internal sabotage. So, I was barely 1 year old, and we had to learn fast, but we did and did a decent job, until my own RP corp that I create with a friend collapsed and we had to retire. I completely suck at recruiting, motivating people, and organizing things. I am a mediocre HR manager when it comes to players, but better at high up decisions. 

I then fled into Solitude and got into a gallente loyalist corp fighting against piracy with the goal to make the region safe. Being one of the few with actual pvp experience and more importantly, FC experience (but that was a lot more theoretical than a lot of practice...), I took the lead of most operations against the local pirate alliance (fear alliance) that was 5 times bigger than our corp. We beat them to death since they were surprisingly bad at pvp. The only good corp of that alliance got disgusted of their buddies and they collapsed. I was barely 2 years old in the game, this was in 2008 iirc, and we enjoyed a safe Solitude for a while when the corp decided to stop being RP coherent and fuck up in Syndicate, so I left with OOC drama behind. Low sec era.

That's basically where ended my leadership. After a while you tend to want something more tranquil and less stressful. You don't have the energy anymore to spend into that kind of things. I joined FW even if I was not really interested in it, invited by a RPer that insisted that I came into his corp. I then enjoyed it and created a second attempt at a RP corp. Since I suck at that, it almost worked but collapsed and I joined KotMC, probably the last corp where I spend more than a year as an (almost) founding member doing FW stuff and all, but without any real leadership position. I may have accepted one if offered, but I don't think I really wanted one... FW low sec era.

Then its a few years of retirement.

I have tried most things in Eve, pve missions, wormholes, incursions, exploration sites, epic arcs (3 of them), pvp in low sec, FW and nullsec including blob warfare in CVA/AM wars against Bob and Triumvirate, racing, mining when I began, PI, industry (including tech 2), trading, high sec various RP war decs... Maybe the only thing I havent tried out of RP constraints is pure piracy... There is a time where its seriously feels the same no matter what you do. RP, however, tends a lot less do feel that way, fortunately.

There is also an issue with CCP, that was one of the main griefs roleplayers had against the company back in 2007-2009. We tended to accuse them of constantly keeping players/gameplay completely separate from the NPC universe. We felt that capsuleers were completely disconnected from the world except doing their own vapid stuff in nullsec. Everything when it comes to capsuleers is disconnected, we use our own stargates, own docking pads, we never see any civilian traffic bar a few scarce NPC industrials in stations, but that also translated itself into the way that players were totally kept separate from the lore and the world. We had regular news like it's again the case today (awesome), but we were only able to comment them. There was also a reason for that : Aurora turned into a fucking disaster, and I came into the game just after it happened in 2005-2006.

So roleplayers had still a good weight in the community back in the days and a lot of people were asking for a factional warfare, that only came 3 years later with TEA and that we used to applaud the first months and then totally loathe for what it did to RP. But eventually, the only times where we truly felt we were doing something was when we were awarded the Kourmonen decoration for the Amarr militia when it was liberated (and that I missed -_-), and when the Caldari won the war and had a shiny unique medal in a similar fashion, and where conquered systems were auctioned to all the megas.

Then I realized that introducing political mechanisms ingame means that they will remain that way for a long time, if not forever, since it's gameplay content. We can not get rid of FW, and so, the world can not truly evolve. We can not get rid of incursion mechanisms, so the world is stuck in an endless sansha incursion... If they truly wanted to bring dynamism, they would have made a much more inclusive system where system sovereignty can change and imply a lot more things in the lore, where every faction can war dec the other one depending on circumstances, and where every faction risk radical changes to have a living world. Well, we maybe despised what Heth did to the State lore for example, but that was a change, maybe badly executed, maybe of poor form, but it was a change. I for one also like the black eagle / Roden change in the Federation, since it shows that the faction can evolve. Same for Jamyl, even if I loathe the character. And same for Shakor, even if he is truly killing the republic and looking like an idiot in the process (much like Heth).

The problem is that a lot of roleplayers will cry to death when their beloved faction is harmed. Sometimes with reason because it's silly or just cheesy, but more generally, people will behave like good little frenchmen and complain for everything happening to their faction. Change is good. But due to that aspect, most people and CCP for other reasons are not really willing to mess with that unchanging lore tapestry like they tried to do in TEA considering the fuss it created. TEA is to the lore a little like what Incarna was to gameplay. A good idea and a wonderful concept that got so badly implemented that it created an uproar. Hell, they could very well make the Amarr drop slavery all together for what it's worth. After all they more or less solved the Caldari Prime issue, which makes the Caldari and Gallente almost without an incentive to fight... They could very well play on those incentives, solving some, bringing different ones... The catch is not to disfigure a faction too much, even if it can be awesome... It's like playing with a hand grenade.

I think I ranted enough... Didnt know I had so much to say...


NB : and yes as BB said above, a lot of things have changed community wise, and not just in the roleplaying one. CCP perverted ethics over years (MonocleGate, SommerBlink, always more alts, deleterious atmosphere with the enforcement of goonlike mentality, trash people as much as you could, etc.
« Last Edit: 06 Nov 2013, 05:33 by Lyn Farel »
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Graelyn

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Re: "Meh"
« Reply #21 on: 06 Nov 2013, 06:49 »

Utsukushi, Lyn, thank you for those two posts.  8)
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Ava Starfire

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Re: "Meh"
« Reply #22 on: 06 Nov 2013, 06:53 »

I only have been in RP for 3 years now (Joined with em in 2011) and thus, missed this "Golden age" so many speak about. RP and EVE have, of course, been a series of ups and downs for me, and due to spike in numbers of new RPers ivenoticed, we seem to be on something of an up, from MY point of view - keep in mind, I missed this golden age.

I hope we get more story though - like, who ordered the Coleile attack, do we have a chief, etc etc. This stuff generally doesnt linger for years...
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Desiderya

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Re: "Meh"
« Reply #23 on: 06 Nov 2013, 08:12 »

Gameplaywise, I'm having a blast. Since I fit my RP to follow this activity it's really not much of a problem. Granted, this leads to a lot of closet/internal RP, but that's the nature of the beast. If you've got a character with ideals and standards (of duty, for example), then chatting up that blood raider barbie (<3 u) becomes really hard to justify when there'd be a lot of other things that character could actually do to further one's agendas. :)


Generally speaking, I'd say it's about change and the inability to adapt to it. You pick your niche and it gets boring, or you get stuck. Either you learn to let go and adapt to try out something new (Such as mentioned by Saede) or you'll get alienated from the game, and additionally by the community, because no one really enjoys being around someone who hates everything. Then, others don't manage to accept the change in the game. I do think that as a bittervet, and we've got plenty of reasons to be bitter =), we ought to be the people that do things, instead of waiting for others to magically solve our pile of problems.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: "Meh"
« Reply #24 on: 06 Nov 2013, 08:14 »

I don't think there is much of a Golden Age of RP to begin with... Maybe before I started to play with Aurora or the overall very enthusiastic nature of the first eve players towards the universe, but well... I think there more up and downs in RP in general, and specific little golden ages here and there tied to communities, groups, or RP entities (corps and alliances) or individuals, that will live their golden age at a specific time, and then vanish or go dormant, and maybe wake up a few years later to live another golden age. It's the way it works usually.
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Saede Riordan

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Re: "Meh"
« Reply #25 on: 06 Nov 2013, 09:14 »

Gameplaywise, I'm having a blast. Since I fit my RP to follow this activity it's really not much of a problem. Granted, this leads to a lot of closet/internal RP, but that's the nature of the beast. If you've got a character with ideals and standards (of duty, for example), then chatting up that blood raider barbie (<3 u) becomes really hard to justify when there'd be a lot of other things that character could actually do to further one's agendas. :)


Generally speaking, I'd say it's about change and the inability to adapt to it. You pick your niche and it gets boring, or you get stuck. Either you learn to let go and adapt to try out something new (Such as mentioned by Saede) or you'll get alienated from the game, and additionally by the community, because no one really enjoys being around someone who hates everything. Then, others don't manage to accept the change in the game. I do think that as a bittervet, and we've got plenty of reasons to be bitter =), we ought to be the people that do things, instead of waiting for others to magically solve our pile of problems.

All this really. Said it better then I did.
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: "Meh"
« Reply #26 on: 06 Nov 2013, 09:59 »

The ability and willingness to try new stuff - or at least not restrict yourself to one particular activity - in EVE is pretty critical, as others have said. Setting yourself achievable goals is another.

IMO, the best thing someone can have for managing to find long-term enjoyment in EVE as a game is the ability to be flexible and try new things - or at least new combinations of things.

Burned out on PVP? Try PVE of some flavor. If you want to work alone but need some risk factor, try low/nullsec missioning. If you want to do it in groups? Try incursions, or if those aren't your thing, L5 missions.

Burned out on mission-grinding? Try taking an underpowered ship into higher-level missions for a challenge, like a HAC into a L4, or an AF into L3s. Deliberately handicapping yourself can provide an interesting experience - I know Ava tried running L4s with a Vagabond once or twice.

There's also industry and market shenanigans. I'll be dipping my toes into industry again for the first time in a little over a year in a month or two.

You could also make a new character and set a goal for yourself with that character - say, a certain wallet balance in a certain amount of time. Or standings with a corp or faction. Limit yourself by not allowing yourself to help your own alt with ISK or assets. Try and do it as if you were a new player with no connections. I've done this before, it's hard work but it can be fun experiencing all the low-level content over again, and your knowledge of skill training will help you specialize much faster - when I did this I ended up having the skills trained to competently fly ships that I had no way of affording - months in advance, in some cases. Not to mention, the newest set of tutorials are actually a decent amount of fun and worth playing through.
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kalaratiri

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Re: "Meh"
« Reply #27 on: 06 Nov 2013, 11:00 »

Quote
Ambitious for progress, but lamenting the loss of that world of pure potential and limitless expectation that went with the first frontier"

It's remarkable how similar Eve players have made their world to the last days of the American west. Civilisation was always the goal, but now we've got it we miss the wildness and freedom of the 'Golden Age'.

For myself, right now I'm finding watching Eve from a distance far more interesting and practical than actually playing it. I first started playing in 2008, immediately after the Trinity expansion. For two years after that I cycled through an endless and uncountable number of alts, trying pretty much everything Eve has to offer. I've done highsec, lowsec, nullsec, wormholes, all of it. I was almost on the edge of quitting by late 2010, when I found EM and started RP. Never looked back.

However, even I have started to mellow in my attitude towards the community a bit. Eve RP seems to be very much an 'in' or 'out' crowd situation, with both groups having their issues with the other. Whether this is "elitism" or "derp" doesn't matter too much, the point I'm trying to make is that Eve RP is currently very divided even amongst itself, and this seems to me to be something that needs working on.

I do have my own ideas for when I return though, and they're nothing to do with FW. I might make a post about them at some point to see what people think.
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: "Meh"
« Reply #28 on: 06 Nov 2013, 11:18 »

Thank you kindly for all of these comments, will have to read and digest these a bit

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Silver Night

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Re: "Meh"
« Reply #29 on: 06 Nov 2013, 12:26 »

I ran into a 'Meh' period probably between 2 and 3 years into Eve - just logging in occasionally to chat, stuff like that. After that is when I really got more involved in RP, and I haven't really felt too ambivalent about the game since then - though I have had substantial time constraints that have meant not playing as much as I'd like sometimes. The main thing is always just finding things to do, and there are plenty I still haven't done, or haven't done in depth. I've never been an active participant in a 0.0 alliance, I've never done a ton of piracy, never lived in a WH (those things freak me out, man), etc. Having goals, and trying to achieve them is what keeps the magic alive for me.
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