Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Silas Vitalia]

Ollie, Gwen's evelopedia link is what you should check out, it sets up quite a few conditions for baselining in the different factions, check it out!

I should have put my quote from the evelopedia article in quotations... lemme try again:

Caldari State

The highly-controlled and meticulously bureaucratic nature of the Caldari State means that capsuleers are heavily restricted by the corporate authorities outside of their designated zones, with a large amount of protocols and regulations that govern a pilot’s freedom of movement. The capsuleers, who are often considered as a faction unto themselves, are commonly regarded as a threat to the established economic order of the State, the megacorporations treating pilots who they consider liabilities over assets with great suspicion.

On most Caldari stations, capsuleers who attempt to baseline (or are at least known to be doing so) with no pre-existing megacorporate record are attached a temporary station ID[1]. They are expected to remain incognito and attract absolutely no attention to themselves. Three counts of vagrant behaviour will see them removed and returned to capsuleer areas, while larger violations, such as having their cover blown, will see capsuleers shot-on-sight by station security. This regulation is not much different on planets, where the megacorporations have the same level of monolithic control as on stations. Capsuleers solve these issues by either creating a name for themselves and/or utilizing their connections, or simply remain under the radar from the corporate authorities altogether.

[Ollie]

Thanks, I'd missed Gwen's post.

I'm still a bit leery of that, even though it's:

A) Written by CCP Abraxas
B) Presented as PF via Evelopedia

One of the things that clashes a bit with how Jita 4-4 presents things is that there's no three strikes/you're out vagrancy law for capsuleers. Or rather there is, but the judgement and sentence is somewhat different - non-capsuleers get taken away, capsuleers get shot (in Jita 4-4 station at least).

To me it doesn't make much sense to pursue a 'having their cover blown will see capsuleers shot on sight' policy while supporting a vagrancy loophole "Don't shoot me, I'm just a vagrant! Can you spare some change?"

Put it down to human error/inconsistency I guess. Or attribute it to the cause/effect of Jita scammers

[Silas Vitalia]

Your earlier point is still valid though,  how we as a group interpret the PF is just as important as anything written up on any of the official pages.

I just try to lean more towards trying to work within those frameworks rather than pushing boundaries, but that is my personal style of which other people of course take a different direction.   

[Silas Vitalia]

As a note, I actually have read the relevant data.  I actually do have a very good reason why Constantin Baracca is not killed on site and why he has a branch of what is ostensibly his diocese operating in Caldari space.  I will very happily blow the IC storyline stuff if that's necessary, but I'm not going to do it on this forum.  It fits very heavily into that [REDACTED] stuff in his character sheet.  I thought I'd pretty much spelled it out so far, how he's managing to get away with it, but I'll definitely explain it if people haven't figured out how he's doing it.

I'm only doing it in person though.  People are having a lot of IC fun figuring out how the Hell he's getting away with this stuff, and I'm not ruining it for everyone who's figuring this out on their own.

If it's really breaking someone's immersion, though, I can OOC explain it to you in person.  Send me a mail.  I'll be happy to walk you through it.

It doesn't effect me or my IC stuff so there's no need, I was just taking the point of view some of the Caldari types on here might be feeling.  If you say you've read the relevant info and you've figured it out then that shows you have taken the time to consider the angles.  You'd have to talk with them about what they think and see how many feathers you are ruffling. 

[Veik2.0Revengeance]

It's times like this that my view comes from most roleplayers would fit the analogy of acting like the people living in an isolated hill village all arguing trying to convince each other of things like, "Only birds can fly" while praying to the vicarious CCP pantheon of Gods for validation and confirmation. And then wondering if they must be crazy when a gyrocopter comes to hover above.

As for the relevance to this thread, if issues arise because of the artificially constructed four walls of you have constructed for yourselves then you can easily circumvent it all by a simple change of perspective and reference.

Which is probably why this thread exists, because it seems to be about people being silly and making things up outside the bounds of what might be considered to be the empirical evidence of the game mechanics.

(Which really, for a capsuleer, why does it even matter beyond that world -- what you need the full guide about the people of a planet before you bomb and vitrify its crust or whatever?)

[Vic Van Meter]

As a note, I actually have read the relevant data.  I actually do have a very good reason why Constantin Baracca is not killed on site and why he has a branch of what is ostensibly his diocese operating in Caldari space.  I will very happily blow the IC storyline stuff if that's necessary, but I'm not going to do it on this forum.  It fits very heavily into that [REDACTED] stuff in his character sheet.  I thought I'd pretty much spelled it out so far, how he's managing to get away with it, but I'll definitely explain it if people haven't figured out how he's doing it.

I'm only doing it in person though.  People are having a lot of IC fun figuring out how the Hell he's getting away with this stuff, and I'm not ruining it for everyone who's figuring this out on their own.

If it's really breaking someone's immersion, though, I can OOC explain it to you in person.  Send me a mail.  I'll be happy to walk you through it.

It doesn't effect me or my IC stuff so there's no need, I was just taking the point of view some of the Caldari types on here might be feeling.  If you say you've read the relevant info and you've figured it out then that shows you have taken the time to consider the angles.  You'd have to talk with them about what they think and see how many feathers you are ruffling. 

That's sort of the reason I wasn't sure whether I was included.  I seem to sometimes be, sometimes not.  The reason I'm not sure whether Veik has a problem with me is just that.  Nobody said anything to me.  I just figured it was in Veik's character to kind of dismiss Constantin instead of figuring out how he pulled this off.  I was only recently told this wasn't an IC thing, so I have to go with that and say that I can absolutely explain why not only Constantin isn't lying, but that it wouldn't be possible or necessary if he wasn't a bishop.  If he was any more or less, the RP would be completely different.  Consider it a hint that it's incredibly important that he is specifically a bishop.

[Gwen Ikiryo]

(Which really, for a capsuleer, why does it even matter beyond that world -- what you need the full guide about the people of a planet before you bomb and vitrify its crust or whatever?)

If we follow the idea of "Game mechanics is God", then the most a Capsuleer can do to a planet is somewhat forcefully improve it's industrial economy in select small areas.

[Veik2.0Revengeance]

The reason I'm not sure whether Veik has a problem with me is just that. 

I don't have a problem with you as a player and neither does Veik as a character -- she's had sufficient catalyst to go off and have a chat with Zarathustra, so that's all that needs to be said as far as I'm concerned.

Does anything else need to be said?

(Which really, for a capsuleer, why does it even matter beyond that world -- what you need the full guide about the people of a planet before you bomb and vitrify its crust or whatever?)

If we follow the idea of "Game mechanics is God", then the most a Capsuleer can do to a planet is somewhat forcefully improve it's industrial economy in select small areas.

I wouldn't say it's God, but it as I said the closest one can get to empirical evidence in Eve. You're right however, that you can't vitrify worlds (yet).

I do have to ask though, I find the world presented in Eve sufficient to play out the role of a capsuleer. I mean, I always thought that sense of being divorced from the rest of New Eden, and the potential feelings of isolation and loneliness were intended? That in a sense you as a player are meant to feel just as disconnected as your character might be from everyone else that isn't a capsuleer themselves.

Sometimes I wonder if all the attempts at trying to build outside the glass walls CCP built is because they're the same walls our characters encounter?

[Gwen Ikiryo]

I do have to ask though, I find the world presented in Eve sufficient to play out the role of a capsuleer. I mean, I always thought that sense of being divorced from the rest of New Eden, and the potential feelings of isolation and loneliness were intended? That in a sense you as a player are meant to feel just as disconnected as your character might be from everyone else that isn't a capsuleer themselves.

Sometimes I wonder if all the attempts at trying to build outside the glass walls CCP built is because they're the same walls our characters encounter?

Well, I personally would doubt that CCP was originally going for that feeling, though they probably did eventually course to that effect - Afterall, the old idea was to have Capsuleers eventually be able to go down and drive around on the surface of planets, fight/talk to people, etc. Hell, elements of that we're resurfacing in the old WoS stuff as little as 3 years ago, to my understanding.

But, that being said, I'd say you're right that we're now supposed to feel somewhat isolated from the rest of the universe. After all, the fiction does a fair amount to suggest that as well.

That said, though. Our characters might be in such a position now, but obviously, none of them were born in their pods. They were normal members of society until fairly recently. Obviously, if one wants to construct fully fleshed out individuals and not just avatars of the stereotypes of ones chosen faction, it's sort of necessary to think about what they were doing during that time.

This, in of itself, sort of requires some degree of worldbuilding, don't you think? Afterall, there are only a handful of fleshed out locations in the game. It'd get old real quick if everyone was from those few places. And the preset backgrounds are impossibly vague even if one follows them, which isn't really enough to take one out of stereotype territory.

I like to think that I'm pretty conservative in that respect - I only have a couple pages of fluff written up for Gwen's hometown, family and local Achur beliefs, none of which I intend to ever dump anywhere directly - though I'm sure others have even less established, maybe even as little as a vague idea of their characters family and the circumstances of their youth. But you seem to be implying that even that is overstepping ones place.

I mean, you can do without, of course. You can supplement IC motivations that might have been driven by a history for ones based around your own.

But, at that point, aren't you basically just playing yourself? Why even bother?

[Lyn Farel]

It's times like this that my view comes from most roleplayers would fit the analogy of acting like the people living in an isolated hill village all arguing trying to convince each other of things like, "Only birds can fly" while praying to the vicarious CCP pantheon of Gods for validation and confirmation. And then wondering if they must be crazy when a gyrocopter comes to hover above.

As for the relevance to this thread, if issues arise because of the artificially constructed four walls of you have constructed for yourselves then you can easily circumvent it all by a simple change of perspective and reference.

Which is probably why this thread exists, because it seems to be about people being silly and making things up outside the bounds of what might be considered to be the empirical evidence of the game mechanics.

(Which really, for a capsuleer, why does it even matter beyond that world -- what you need the full guide about the people of a planet before you bomb and vitrify its crust or whatever?)

Hey, that might be the difference, you put the emphasis on game mechanisms, I put the emphasis on PF and lore. Game mechanisms are game mechanisms, they do not always make much sense anyway.

Also, the isolated side of capsuleers is interesting to play, but it becomes limited and somewhat bland when one cannot also play what it implies in terms of impact on the standard world besides. What is interesting is playing the isolated demi god and how what he does in that state can influence the world.

[Ava Starfire]

I think world building for noble Amarr chars is a pretty important thing. Something like 2/3rds of the True Amarr characters are supposed to be noble, so its really not overboard to have many many different backgrounds that involve owning large chunks of real estate.

I think a good rule of thumb is avoid crossing lines that would give you more power in game than you actually have as a player. If you keep your ranks at "Holder" rather than getting too elaborate with the fancier titles and if you keep your holdings as relatively small in the grand scheme of things you are doing a good (and neccessary) job creating a noble character without stepping on too many toes.

I am really not a fan of the "yes you are"/"no you aren't" style of argument that was one of the themes of the threads being mocked by Veik. There has to be a better way to handle that sort of conflict, though I haven't quite put my finger on what can be done once a disagreement like that gets going. I tried to move it away by making the whole discussion about bigger things, but while I have had fun trotting out 8 year old anti-tetrimon arguments and lots of fire and brimstone... I don't think I was quite able to drag the discussion far enough from the "Yes you are, no you aren't dynamic."

This.

To a RPer, RPing a member of a society in which title and position are important (and this is all of them but the Gallente, arguably)) this stuff matters.

[Laurentis Thiesant]

I think world building for noble Amarr chars is a pretty important thing. Something like 2/3rds of the True Amarr characters are supposed to be noble, so its really not overboard to have many many different backgrounds that involve owning large chunks of real estate.

I think a good rule of thumb is avoid crossing lines that would give you more power in game than you actually have as a player. If you keep your ranks at "Holder" rather than getting too elaborate with the fancier titles and if you keep your holdings as relatively small in the grand scheme of things you are doing a good (and neccessary) job creating a noble character without stepping on too many toes.

I am really not a fan of the "yes you are"/"no you aren't" style of argument that was one of the themes of the threads being mocked by Veik. There has to be a better way to handle that sort of conflict, though I haven't quite put my finger on what can be done once a disagreement like that gets going. I tried to move it away by making the whole discussion about bigger things, but while I have had fun trotting out 8 year old anti-tetrimon arguments and lots of fire and brimstone... I don't think I was quite able to drag the discussion far enough from the "Yes you are, no you aren't dynamic."

This.

To a RPer, RPing a member of a society in which title and position are important (and this is all of them but the Gallente, arguably)) this stuff matters.

I, The Honourable Laurentis Thiesant OVC. USM. hereby decree that I agree with this sentiment.

[Veik2.0Revengeance]

But, at that point, aren't you basically just playing yourself? Why even bother?

Or it could be a matter of perspective. Some capsuleers cling to their old lives, and their old sense of self before they were in the pod. Some capsuleers might find their minds turned inwards in the isolation of their lives, and in the darkness of their own minds become monsters made of men who utter to themselves: "Well, you know what this is all rather silly and absurd I'm going to go and drink a vodka red bull".

Hey, that might be the difference, you put the emphasis on game mechanisms, I put the emphasis on PF and lore.

Or I use the PF and lore to rationalize the game mechanisms.

Also, the isolated side of capsuleers is interesting to play, but it becomes limited and somewhat bland when one cannot also play what it implies in terms of impact on the standard world besides. What is interesting is playing the isolated demi god and how what he does in that state can influence the world.

You can probably do much the same thing not paying for chat channels when you can play Eve offline like a tapletop RP with your friends when all the PF, canon, and lore are available on Evelopedia no?

How else can you affect the game world if you're not playing the game?

Do I RP now by going, "You imagine a starbase around the moon, roll a d20 to see if you succeed in lighting the cyno"?

[Lyn Farel]

I think we might not have the same definition for "game world". To you it means what happens in space. To me it means that, plus what happens outside mechanisms, meaning, planets, stations, politics (not nullsec bullshit), etc.

[Morwen Lagann]

Do I RP now by going, "You imagine a starbase around the moon, roll a d20 to see if you succeed in lighting the cyno"?

No no no. You're doing it wrong.

You roll 1d6 to determine if you get to light it or not. The 1d20 is for how much of the ten-minute cycle you last before getting blapped.

Then you roll an additional 2d20 to see how many ships come through the cyno. If you get two ones, your titan jumps instead of bridging.