Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Lyn Farel]

Uh;.. You quoted me and I was answering to Katrina... About friends. Thought it was OOC friends.

[Makkal]

I quoted Havohej. You didn't say that making friends IC is wrong, so why would I disagree with you?

[Louella Dougans]

Relevant?

what ever happened to Myxx anyway ?

[Nicoletta Mithra]

I'd say that from an OOC as well as an IC perspective, making friends isn't at all wrong in EVE. Just as in real life, one should be kind of careful whom one considers to  be friend, though. I know dozen of people IRL whose trust got betrayed by someone they thought to be a friend in dozens of ways. The reality is that in RL friends can betray your trust just as much as IG and oftentimes the consequences aren't really that different as they are mostly consisting in the broken trust and friendship.

Is making friends 'doing it wrong' in RL for that reason? I don't think so, for usually friendships do work out. I think the same is true for EVE.

[Shiori]

EVE reminds me rather of Diplomacy. Just looking at it being played, you could be excused for thinking it's a game about war and tactics. EVE is, in a way; but there's a very deep rabbit hole leading straight down, along where the game becomes less and less about range, transversal and DPS, and more about organization, motivation, and trust.

[Saede Riordan]

Relevant?

what ever happened to Myxx anyway ?

Well, When I rolled Saede, a few weeks afterwards I got a notification that they'd set me red. They're apparently still around, plotting their 'revenge' against my 'betrayal'. But I think that's mostly cooled off since they found out I'd been homeless for two months last year. I don't really pay much attention to them. Are they still banned from OOC/Summit?

[Tiberious Thessalonia]

As far as I know, yes.

[Ché Biko]

Ok, I was kinda sadly surprised to notice this "You can't RP a spy/thief if you and ALL your alts don't want to be ostracized by The Community." thing. But I guess I'm glad I found out this way.

So, if I ever want to develop my spy alt, I'm out of luck, huh? There's no way to do this right? No way to keep the betrayal IC? I can't play a IC thief without being seen as an OOC thief. Oh wait, I already mentioned I have a dormant spy alt, so no trust for Ché?

[Vincent Pryce]

Ok, I was kinda sadly surprised to notice this "You can't RP a spy/thief if you and ALL your alts don't want to be ostracized by The Community." thing. But I guess I'm glad I found out this way.

So, if I ever want to develop my spy alt, I'm out of luck, huh? There's no way to do this right? No way to keep the betrayal IC? I can't play a IC thief without being seen as an OOC thief. Oh wait, I already mentioned I have a dormant spy alt, so no trust for Ché?

Bingo. Welcome to EVE.

[Streya]

Ok, I was kinda sadly surprised to notice this "You can't RP a spy/thief if you and ALL your alts don't want to be ostracized by The Community." thing. But I guess I'm glad I found out this way.

So, if I ever want to develop my spy alt, I'm out of luck, huh? There's no way to do this right? No way to keep the betrayal IC? I can't play a IC thief without being seen as an OOC thief. Oh wait, I already mentioned I have a dormant spy alt, so no trust for Ché?

Whenever a non-roleplayer spies/awoxes/scams, you see a lot of threads in places like Crime and Punishment that outs all of that player's alts. I'm not sure why a roleplayer who conducts such activities should receive any sort of special protection simply on the basis that they roleplay.

I bolded and underlined the question I think is at the heart of your post. The short answer is "No"; if you steal actual, mechanical assets, you have engaged in a form of meta gameplay that is inherently deceptive and untrustworthy. If a roleplayer pulls a heist off on one character, reasonably speaking I shouldn't trust other characters played by the same player with assets either. It is the player who engaged in the meta gameplay, not the character. That's not to say the player is some sort of foul, evil person, but it simply wouldn't be wise to give them access to valuables anymore.

[Katrina Oniseki]

Ok, I was kinda sadly surprised to notice this "You can't RP a spy/thief if you and ALL your alts don't want to be ostracized by The Community." thing. But I guess I'm glad I found out this way.

So, if I ever want to develop my spy alt, I'm out of luck, huh? There's no way to do this right? No way to keep the betrayal IC? I can't play a IC thief without being seen as an OOC thief. Oh wait, I already mentioned I have a dormant spy alt, so no trust for Ché?

Not unless you can rip someone off who won't publicize your other alts and mains.

[Saede Riordan]

Ok, I was kinda sadly surprised to notice this "You can't RP a spy/thief if you and ALL your alts don't want to be ostracized by The Community." thing. But I guess I'm glad I found out this way.

I don't think this is the case really, case and point, I have probably 50 billion ISK worth of thefts from various wormhole corporations under by belt. In the link Niraia provided as example: Nem, Myxx, and I, made out with something like 11 billion on that robbery alone. I'm not ostracized, hell, it didn't even prevent me from joining Electus Matari on an alt everyone knew was "Nikita's".

I think the circumstances of most things are what makes the difference. I'm obviously not going to rob my own people that would be idiotic, and largely, no one within the RP community is going to be worth the trouble to spy/steal from. We are actually in a very unique position in The Community in that we have vulnerable assets in space. Towers and the like. The only other RP groups I can think of offhand who actually have vulnerable infrastructure are I-Red, EM, and possibly Re-AW. Wormhole thefts are really common, and as Streya pointed out, really easy. We got lazy and got robbed, the same exact method was what I used on all my heists, (though I'd argue mine were pulled off more competently).

Now, obviously, we're going to warn our friends that the person who stole from us is a potential thief, thus resulting in the character getting 'burnt' and not trusted with assets again. However, a character will only be burnt within circles that the people who they robbed, also moved within. If I didn't RP, or have a large circle of friendly/semifr I might go cry on the Crime and Punishment, but overall, the thief could get away undetected largely. The best thieves manage to cast the blame on someone else for their thefts. But, Because of how tightly knit the RP community is, when a character gets burnt, they tend to get burnt for most of The Community. This does go one layer higher, in that the character has known alts. Thus, all of the known alts get burnt along with the character. The player can always roll another toon though.

[Vincent Pryce]

You can corp thief around, as long as you don't touch The Community. When you shit were you sleep, people turn against you and there is little forgiveness, especially if one is considered an annoying prick. Still, general corp thieving isn't exactly giving you cookie points either. While there's respect and such gained if you do it on a compelling level as some entities have done, there's always a price to be paid for it in some manner.

There are things that can give you leeway though. For example you rob someone in The Community that they in general despise - you get a get out of jail free card, for the most part.

PS. A good deal of RP entities have considerable assets in space and at their disposal, however most of them are the most paranoid entities in EVE don't give rights or even tell majority of their members about them.

[Makkal]

Also, spies are not thieves.

[Ché Biko]

Whenever a non-roleplayer spies/awoxes/scams, you see a lot of threads in places like Crime and Punishment that outs all of that player's alts. I'm not sure why a roleplayer who conducts such activities should receive any sort of special protection simply on the basis that they roleplay.

I bolded and underlined the question I think is at the heart of your post. The short answer is "No"; if you steal actual, mechanical assets, you have engaged in a form of meta gameplay that is inherently deceptive and untrustworthy. If a roleplayer pulls a heist off on one character, reasonably speaking I shouldn't trust other characters played by the same player with assets either. It is the player who engaged in the meta gameplay, not the character. That's not to say the player is some sort of foul, evil person, but it simply wouldn't be wise to give them access to valuables anymore.

Hmm, I kinda see EVE as a poker game: deception is expected, even among friends you can trust IRL.

I can understand the OOC name and shame, but I'd hate it if Ché loses all IC credibility just because there's OOC knowledge that his player has a spy/thief alt. To me, it feels like a char not getting into TS-F because the player also plays an mission alt that does incursions, or a Matari char not getting into TLF because the player also has an Amarr Holder char. Or Ché not walking into somewhere because I see, OOC, that Ava is there waiting to punch Ché in the nards.
I would prefer it if the RP community people trusted I can keep my characters seperated until proven otherwise.

What does it matter if it's "actual, mechanical assets" instead of an IC secret or asset. Why is it not ok if someone steals "a mere 2 billion", when it is ok if someone reveals character X's big dark secret, or abucts her daughter to sell as a slave? I can blow up all your ships and crew and all will be well with The RP Community, but steal one, and I'm out?
As someone whose interactions are 99% IC when logged in, I don't see why I couldn't RP a spy/thief without metagaming, but then again, I never tried it yet, so I guess there are some things I have not thought about?
Is there no spy/counterspy/sabotage thing going on in FW RP corps or other RP enemies?

So...is Ché's trustworthiness affected now you folks know that I, the player, am cool with the spy/thief thing?