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Author Topic: Republic/Federation skirmish: Colelie  (Read 7513 times)

Lyn Farel

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Re: Republic/Federation skirmish: Colelie
« Reply #45 on: 08 May 2013, 03:18 »

While I am super excited for these events, I know the staff works late on them, off hours, takes forever to set up, lots of work, etc etc etc, I have one small request.

"We're getting rid of TonyG!" they said. "The story will be sensible!" they said.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Republic/Federation skirmish: Colelie
« Reply #46 on: 08 May 2013, 03:58 »

To be clearer, I am disappointed. I really enjoy what they are doing and where they want to go (getting rid of the duality Amarr/Caldari vs Gallente/Minmatar). I am just disappointed how all of this is handled. Do we really want to get rid of TonyG approach or what ? All I see here is the exact same story pattern and tropes, with big explosions and empires invading each other and CONCORD doing nothing (have they turned into some kind of UN joke at some point by the way ?). The only difference is that we do not have superweapons, for now. For that, I am grateful.

I can accept a hell of a big event like the battle for Caldari Prime once of twice. It reminds us that Eve is epic, and they needed something like this for the Dust side of CP. I have difficulties to cope with that kind of things twice or more in a single month. If you want an armageddon just go full scale war between every empire and turn New Eden into ashes, it will make more sense. What I loved in Eve primary setting was its dark, convoluted and grey politics, plots, and cultural skirmishes. Before TEA we didn't have all that... "hollywood" stuff with big and shiny explosions everywhere, with official navies clashing like if it was ok and then slapping each other in the back and saying "it was good fun, let's do it again in the future shall we ?". It was a lot more subtle, be it Tetrimon, Doriam assassination, the campaign in the Bleaks, etc.

Also, what is it with assassinations attempts ? It is like we have the storyline going all Anders Breivik at every opportunity. Heth, Midular, Doriam and I am probably forgetting other ones as well. One of two, maybe, but two in a row... I think it's the most common plotline just before the usual random terrorist attack.

I understand that live events need pew pew - not that sure of that actually, it could also involve industry and exploration and various other stuff as well - but please, not always to that scale. It completely breaks suspension of disbelief eventually.

For the leaders :

- Jamyl is the worst character by far in my opinion. Even if our characters are not supposed to know all the zombie things that are behind, we the players, do. We see the character in more or less a full light and it's not pretty. She is probably beyond repairs, unlike Midular. Just get rid of her, and why not bringing change ? Change is good, as long as it remains credible and does not break suspension of disbelief. The Amarr Empire has not really been hurt and not much has to be salvaged, so that's mostly a character issue.

- Heth is not a bad character I think. Not sure for you all but I almost pity him. I do not find him completely 2 dimensional and even with all the "Hethler" tropes around him, I find him to be a modest, naive, abrasive forklift syndic that eventually do stupid things because he is not very smart, but still has qualities as a character. With his disease behind, it gives him depth and explains a lot the struggle of the base caldari worker. CCP could even put the emphasis on that specific point someday, it could prove interesting in the harsh, corporate world of the Caldari State. Quite similarly, the disassociated, too. The issue is not Heth, the character himself, the issue is that TEA really disfigured the State, the faction (quite the opposite of the Amarr Empire imo). Where it could have turned into a struggle between social classes in the State, something without any precedent, we had instead the rise of Hethler and the Hethlerjugend. I am not going to expand on this as we have already had countless discussions about how the State got harmed in the process. I would also like that they flesh out a little every CEO of the major megas. It could give a lot to players of KK, Lai Dai, Ishukone, etc, to identify themselves to.

- Roden. I am mostly fine with him, but I would really like to see more of him. His corporate interests, his lobbying, or anything. I would expect him to be very shady as a president. I would also like to hear back of Foiritain. As much as like Midular he fell in disgrace, he can still wield a lot of political power. It is definitly not unheard of and actually quite common to see politicians stained by various scandals to get popular again and win elections. Recently I heard a politics expert speaking about that phenomenon (about Gaston Flosse recent affair), calling them political phoenixes, even corrupt, fallen, or whatever, they can get back in force because people will sometimes think that even with their flaws, they were better than the new ones. I would also like to hear again of other political figures like Celes Agard. If there is something we never hear about, it's the Federal Senate. That's not big explosions everywhere, and that's a central part of gallentean politics, so, where is the damn Senate ? Why are we hearing a lot of about Amarrian heirs, but not political opponents for the Fed ?

- Shakor. I am fine with him, but like Roden, would like to know a little more of him. He remains very superficial for now. And since the Midular case, he sure made the Republic look like fools to the eyes of everybody else. Difficult times ahead for the Republic on intergalactic politics. I also hope they will continue to flesh out all the tribal leaders.

- Minor factions : still completely lost in the mist. For now we only get major faction vs another major faction, except on the Amarrian side where for now, it's internal (and that's very appreciated). I know that we already had a discussion on this, and that it's still the beginning of everything so we have to give them time, which I agree. What I do not like however, is that they choose a plotline and a few main actors, and they stick to them until the end. For example, in the Midular case, we had Shakor and Roden, and nobody else. In the CP battle, we had Roden/Blaque, Heth, and Yanala. And that's it. Even if the plot is going to span over months, always the same characters. Nobody else enters in the spotlight, even if that's for a few days only. And that's my grief precisely, because that would be the exact good thing to do to involve minor factions without creating whole stories just for them.

Addendum

Working myself in a similar position IRL, I have to admit when I read the forums it often makes me smile to read people speculating or speaking about things, since often they do not have all the pieces of the puzzle to figure it out and often speak a little out of ignorance, which is expectable. You often want to tell them that they got it wrong because if only they knew this or that...

So yes, maybe I got it all wrong because I do not see the full picture yet. I am just worried and well, not enjoying the plot to its fullest since the last events.
« Last Edit: 08 May 2013, 04:06 by Lyn Farel »
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Rok-Yuni

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Re: Republic/Federation skirmish: Colelie
« Reply #47 on: 08 May 2013, 04:07 »

While it would be interesting to see house Sarum attempt a reclaiming in caldari space, if i'm remembering things right, the reclaiming of minmatar has been specifically mentioned more than once.

though that, of course, could be a smokescreen.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Republic/Federation skirmish: Colelie
« Reply #48 on: 08 May 2013, 04:37 »

I would like to add that my words are probably a little harsh, since after all the RP we are getting on the IGS or elsewhere is pretty good and brings new things to play with.
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Gaven Lok ri

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Re: Republic/Federation skirmish: Colelie
« Reply #49 on: 08 May 2013, 06:06 »

I disagree on Jamyl. But I also have a policy of only reading material about EVE's plot that my character could possibly know IC. Not having TEA messing with my perceptions makes the character a perfectly fine one.

Remember that IC there is absolutely no way to know the difference between her death being faked and her being a clone. Its only with all the behind the scenes nonsense stories that her character becomes certainly a clone. (I really don't like non-IC accessible narrative, for the record. I think they muck up RP really really badly. )

I am worried about the sheer rate at which Amarrian leaders are disappearing for the sake of changing things up. Effectively 4 (counting Karsoth) in 10 years is a bit high for an Empire not in a state of outright civil war.
« Last Edit: 08 May 2013, 06:11 by Gaven Lok ri »
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Anslol

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Re: Republic/Federation skirmish: Colelie
« Reply #50 on: 08 May 2013, 06:36 »

... although upon further consideration I have a sudden premonition that House Sarum's Reclaiming plans aren't aimed at the Federation or the Republic.

Care to share why you think that way?
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Ollie

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Re: Republic/Federation skirmish: Colelie
« Reply #51 on: 08 May 2013, 06:46 »

... although upon further consideration I have a sudden premonition that House Sarum's Reclaiming plans aren't aimed at the Federation or the Republic.

Care to share why you think that way?

Because CCP seems to have set about dismantling the "tag-team" style approach that was setup after the publication of TEA and the expansion that introduced FW in favour of either a free-for-all cage match or a royal rumble.

I think Aria's speculating based on that, but she might have something more concrete.

Also I may have been watching too much wrestling lately.
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Anslol

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Re: Republic/Federation skirmish: Colelie
« Reply #52 on: 08 May 2013, 06:54 »

...lol. Well I can see they're trying to undo the TEA bff coalitions but...I can't see any IG/IC reason Amarr would Reclaim the Caldari at all :\ Unless the Other is going full Derp.
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Natalcya Katla

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Re: Republic/Federation skirmish: Colelie
« Reply #53 on: 08 May 2013, 07:02 »

I have to agree with Lyn, not every event needs to be a multi-capital spectacle.

As far as event tropes/cliches go, though, what I'm really tired of seeing is freighters. It seems like half the events pivot around various groups of loafers who get on freighters and parade them in front of hostile people with guns.

Are you a group of political dissidents or plain dissatisfied citizens who want to protest against the government? Do it from a freighter. A freighter is like a stage with rocket engines. How cool is that?
Are you a group of super-soldiers fleeing from a government that wants you dead? Do it in a freighter. It's the perfect getaway vehicle, and will carry you to safety at absolutely glacial speeds.
Are you a group of activist hackers hoping to infiltrate the facility of a government agency to steal and expose their plans? Do it in a freighter. It's discreet, and besides, you need the cargo space to carry all that data.
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Ulphus

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Re: Republic/Federation skirmish: Colelie
« Reply #54 on: 08 May 2013, 07:12 »

(I really don't like non-IC accessible narrative, for the record. I think they muck up RP really really badly. )


I agree, but when I mentioned it in the storyline round table my comments were a little misinterpreted, and delegate zero accused me of wanting someone to be the RP police, and CCP aren't interested in limiting their storytelling tools just to avoid people using non-ic knowledge in their RP.

/shrug

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Lyn Farel

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Re: Republic/Federation skirmish: Colelie
« Reply #55 on: 08 May 2013, 07:28 »

Lol freighters  :lol:

I disagree on Jamyl. But I also have a policy of only reading material about EVE's plot that my character could possibly know IC. Not having TEA messing with my perceptions makes the character a perfectly fine one.

Remember that IC there is absolutely no way to know the difference between her death being faked and her being a clone. Its only with all the behind the scenes nonsense stories that her character becomes certainly a clone. (I really don't like non-IC accessible narrative, for the record. I think they muck up RP really really badly. )

I am worried about the sheer rate at which Amarrian leaders are disappearing for the sake of changing things up. Effectively 4 (counting Karsoth) in 10 years is a bit high for an Empire not in a state of outright civil war.

If only it was just a clone/not clone thing with her... It's literally jovian ancient entity sharing her brain with her and that kind of thing. Certainly, there is no possibility for it to be known IC, but I don't care much, since I, the player, know it OOCly. I am not my character, my character may ignore it, but I, the reader, don't. That's like reading something you really hated in a book and pretending it does not exist.

It leaves a very sour taste.

But yes, besides that, the public known side of hers is okay. It would be awesome though if like for Roden and Shakor, we knew the character a little more, like they have done for Heth for example. It's really hard to tell what are the exact policies of Jamyl. Maybe it will come in due time.
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Gaven Lok ri

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Re: Republic/Federation skirmish: Colelie
« Reply #56 on: 08 May 2013, 08:03 »

Ulphus: I had a similar argument to what you describe with CCP Ginger back in the day on the Chatsubo. Basically, my stance was (and still is) that with very little extra work everything CCP does fiction wise could be given an IC source. You don't even have to change the tone or contents, just say that "this is a story/history/report/news article written in exactly the way it appears by an IC character.

If TEA was written by "A noted Gallente Author" then it would be reasonable fodder for RP. Some people could believe it, others could say its full of it. As is, its something that has to be ignored for reasonable RP.

The scope article on Jamyl is a good example of this being done successfully. Gaven's response to it is "Well, what do you expect from the Scope?" And so on.

The EVE lore in the Wiki would be the biggest place where work would have to be done these days, but it would be entirely possible to move every single piece of lore that CCP has into an IC setting where we could actually use it.

I failed to get the point across for one reason or another, I think, though. 

Lyn: Thing is, cause its not IC knowledge in any way, the devs now can basically ignore the worst parts of it. The symptoms of how she is acting can be explained many ways, Gonzales approach is only one of them. All of his nonsense can be removed entirely and dismissed as rumors, because the IC available material never actually used that storyline.

I agree that almost everything about her from TEA is total garbage and needs to go, but the character is salvageable.
« Last Edit: 08 May 2013, 08:09 by Gaven Lok ri »
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DeadRow

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Re: Republic/Federation skirmish: Colelie
« Reply #57 on: 08 May 2013, 08:30 »

Because CCP seems to have set about dismantling the "tag-team" style approach that was setup after the publication of TEA and the expansion that introduced FW in favour of either a free-for-all cage match or a royal rumble.

AFAIK, Amarr and Caldari were allies before TEA. The 2 on 2 style has been a round for longer than the book though I'm happy that it is becoming a free-for-all. Maybe now we can get rid of the Guri-Nation-Blooder blue circle while we're at it.
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Mithfindel

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Re: Republic/Federation skirmish: Colelie
« Reply #58 on: 08 May 2013, 08:44 »

Want to decouple the Amarr-Caldari alliance? Empress offers sanctum to the clone soldiers. By now somewhat prematurely senile and unstable Heth complains while having one of his mood swings. Schizophrenic Empress has one of her Mr. Hyde days. Butthurt follows and some CAESA loans are defaulted. (And if Heth went on to put all the blame and defaulted loans on, say, CPD, this would both remove them from the stage and let him go in a kind of a "dying moment of awesome".)
« Last Edit: 08 May 2013, 08:48 by Mithfindel »
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Republic/Federation skirmish: Colelie
« Reply #59 on: 08 May 2013, 08:54 »

Want to decouple the Amarr-Caldari alliance? Empress offers sanctum to the clone soldiers. By now somewhat prematurely senile and unstable Heth complains while having one of his mood swings. Schizophrenic Empress has one of her Mr. Hyde days. Butthurt follows and some CAESA loans are defaulted. (And if Heth went on to put all the blame and defaulted loans on, say, CPD, this would both remove them from the stage and let him go in a kind of a "dying moment of awesome".)


Heth defaulting on those trillions of ISK he borrowed from Jamyl makes excellent sense, considering the recent story about his financial woes.

Jamyl getting pissy and letting him be eaten by the other megacorps also sounds excellent.

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