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[Svetlana Scarlet]

Why would you think they wouldn't be able to buy it back? It's a megacorp that's existed for several centuries and is one of the largest and most powerful in the State.

That would probably be a good RoE for the Kingdom as I assume its planetary currencies are worth less than KK's.

It's technically illegal to trade KK currency for anything other than ISK, and only then in State-sanctioned exchanges. Something tells me it isn't being traded particularly highly in unsanctioned exchanges either, now that it seems clear they have nothing to back it up. The number of centuries it has lasted means nothing if it looks like it's about to get carved up and sold for scrap to the rest of the megacorporations. I can't see anyone wanting to buy its debt right now unless they got such a good deal that the risk was outweighed by the potential payoff...which just means that KK is trading a short term problem for a long term one. Granted, that is pretty much Heth's MO at this point, but I suspect the Board of Directors is getting pretty fucking tired of putting up with that shit right now.

[orange]

The Board of Directors is getting pretty fucking tired of putting up with that shit right now.

But from what we know, it seems he has a significant controlling stake in KK.

[Svetlana Scarlet]

But from what we know, it seems he has a significant controlling stake in KK.

At some point, that will cease to matter, whether he gives his stake up voluntarily or not.

[Mithfindel]

Sounds like a good time to suggest funding KK - in exchange for a humble share of stock.

[Aria Jenneth]

Well, that's sort of what stocks are for, after all.

I think at this point the Caldari State is pretty well safe from becoming the Caldari Empire. We've gone from discussing whether Heth's power is waxing or waning to discussing whether he should get his tea with one lump (upside the head, possibly) or two.

[Gesakaarin]

I wonder if the Dear Executor realized the following conundrum to his Imperial ambitions:

1. Caldari Funds Unlimited manages the majority of State pension funds (Probably via some form of superannuation scheme where workers put a percentage of their earnings towards CFU portfolios it manages)

2. Kaalakiota under Heth takes out what might be rather massive loans to underwrite the war against the Fed.

3. Kaalakiota is currently in a position where it seems to be heavily debt-ridden to both the Empire and the CFU.

4. Kaalakiota does not have the liquid capital to repay its debt to the CFU for a variety of reasons.

So now I wonder how the workers of the State and especially Kaalakiota are going to support the Executor when a cursory look at their pension and retirement funds will show their decline and even complete disappearance.

Right now I think Heth is going to get consumed by some very pissed off Kaalakiota employees because it seems to be a common thing for employees to purchase stock in their parent company out of their wages in addition to having CFU managed funds to retire into and KK is apparently nose-diving under CEO Heth. Then, once KK is under new management it probably ends up surviving because its debt has to be purchased by the CEP members if only because that very same debt exposes CFU to failure - and if CFU goes under then so does the rest of the State financial sector.

My thoughts anyway on the future.

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

Why would you think they wouldn't be able to buy it back? It's a megacorp that's existed for several centuries and is one of the largest and most powerful in the State.

That would probably be a good RoE for the Kingdom as I assume its planetary currencies are worth less than KK's.

So you're saying they're... too big to fail? 

OOCly, I'm intrigued by the direction this is going. It would have been an easy cop-out to simply say "Heth nationalizes all the megacorps, long live teh Caldari Empiiiiire". It's interesting to say "Heth wants to nationalize all the megacorps to form teh Caldari Empiiiiire. Oh, and by the way, on his watch KK has funneled all its money into the Protectorate. It's unsure if it can even make its next debt payment."

If I were, say, the head of Lai Dai, I'd be making some phone calls to the KK board with "offers" of cash "assistance" in exchange for a huge percentage of the company.

ICly, as a mercenary fighting for what is turning out to be a potentially bankrupt megacorp, Shin is starting to get a little eye twitch.

[Makkal]

Why would you think they wouldn't be able to buy it back? It's a megacorp that's existed for several centuries and is one of the largest and most powerful in the State.

That would probably be a good RoE for the Kingdom as I assume its planetary currencies are worth less than KK's.

So you're saying they're... too big to fail? 

No.

I'm saying that companies can, and do, bounce back from being in the red. Simply being 'in debt' is not the end of the world.

I'm saying that if you're in a country with a weaker currency, buying the debt of a nation with a stronger currency tends to be attractive.

I'm saying that firing ones CEO and restructuring is something companies do all the time to please their stockholders.

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

Oh, I'm not disagreeing. I'm hoping CCP gives us a chron about an angry shareholder's meeting, soon.

[Lithium Flower]

At this point, I can't imagine anyone wanting to buy KK's debt. The only reason to do that is if you think it will be repaid -- and if their business plan is to keep pouring money down the black hole that is the CPD, I can't imagine anyone sees some sort of return on their investment. If they can't make debt payments to CFU, that is not going to be good for them. Depending on how vindictive the other megas are feeling, a CFU "repossession" of KK assets could get very bloody indeed.

On other words...ding-dong, the witch is dead. Let the feeding frenzy begin.

Russia 1917 scenario. Caldari revolution. Megas no more.
Heth: - Sorry, guys, what debts? We are different country!

[Svetlana Scarlet]

Russia 1917 scenario. Caldari revolution. Megas no more.
Heth: - Sorry, guys, what debts? We are different country!

In order to do that the people in power have to want that...and KK doesn't owe its money to someone else, it owes it to CFU.

Also, the other megacorps have the force of arms to effect a "repossession". That isn't going to work too well.

[orange]

Russia 1917 scenario. Caldari revolution. Megas no more.
Heth: - Sorry, guys, what debts? We are different country!

In order to do that the people in power have to want that...and KK doesn't owe its money to someone else, it owes it to CFU.

Also, the other megacorps have the force of arms to effect a "repossession". That isn't going to work too well.

It isn't like Russia 1917 happened overnight.  It took 5 years and the outcome was far from  guaranteed.

So the question becomes whether or not there is still sufficient support (ie the CPD & HG) to put up a fight and sufficient lack of opposition from various other powers.

The important departure from the Russia 1917 scenario however is that the Red Revolution was not attempting to also fight the Germans.   The Revolution signaled Russia's exit from WWI.

In the case of the Caldari, the Revolutionary wants to maintain the war and effect internal change.  A much more difficult task.

[Mithfindel]

ICly, as a mercenary fighting for what is turning out to be a potentially bankrupt megacorp, Shin is starting to get a little eye twitch.

Have you heard the Good Word of our Commander Muriya Mordu?

I'm saying that firing ones CEO and restructuring is something companies do all the time to please their stockholders.

Caldari corporations are commonly self-owned, or at least mostly owned by the upper management. This means that if they go rotten, it is much harder to oust the leadership. (Which is why I'd love to see people offer to offer to finance Heth for an exchange of his shares - though he's not that desperate yet. Once he's out of his shares, he's on extremely shaky ground.)

[Lithium Flower]

Russia 1917 scenario. Caldari revolution. Megas no more.
Heth: - Sorry, guys, what debts? We are different country!

In order to do that the people in power have to want that...and KK doesn't owe its money to someone else, it owes it to CFU.

Also, the other megacorps have the force of arms to effect a "repossession". That isn't going to work too well.

It isn't like Russia 1917 happened overnight.  It took 5 years and the outcome was far from  guaranteed.

So the question becomes whether or not there is still sufficient support (ie the CPD & HG) to put up a fight and sufficient lack of opposition from various other powers.

The important departure from the Russia 1917 scenario however is that the Red Revolution was not attempting to also fight the Germans.   The Revolution signaled Russia's exit from WWI.

In the case of the Caldari, the Revolutionary wants to maintain the war and effect internal change.  A much more difficult task.

Bolshevik revolution in 1917 was in fact overnight. It was a planned coup d'etat, pro-democratic provisional government was arrested (right before they started election) and all communication centers were taken under control. Civil war started as consequences of bolshevik policies, not their attempt to come to power.

Although, indeed, communists were going to stop the war, there are other similarities in history, where despotic government came to power with different goal: to start the war. Third Reich. Oh, and peoples voted for them. And it wasn't difficult task, you just have to ignite hatred in peoples hearts, and they will gladly follow you right into the slaughterhouse.

[Jocca Quinn]

Actually I kind of hope Heth succeeds. I've never really seen the appeal of the Mega-Corporate State. Maybe my background in Shadowrun made me biased but I always had thoughts that an ultra capitalist socity would end up with the people on the bottom rung of the ladder being basically indentured servants.

There are (or were) plenty of entries in the lore that stated it was basically impossible for anyone to move from their mega-corp, they depended on the corp for just about everything, their wages in corporate script (basically useless elsewhere) then most of that was sucked back by the corps for services rendered.

I guess I've always seen the state as practicing slavery without the name, and someone needed to kick over those ivory towers the members of the board sat in.

Up until The Broker made his appearance I LIKED what Heth was doing in TEA, I thought it a good and necessary thing.

Burn down the mega's lets have a new Raata Empire.

* Altarica hides