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Author Topic: Uprising....  (Read 7257 times)

Silver Night

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Re: Uprising....
« Reply #15 on: 12 Apr 2013, 20:35 »

I don't see it as easily doable without the sort of storytelling that I would prefer CCP avoid - in particular on the Gallente-Amarr side of it. Unlike the Minmatar/Caldari, who before the war could have cared less about eachother, the Gallente and Amarr have quite a lot of incompatibility built in.

Sepherim

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Re: Uprising....
« Reply #16 on: 12 Apr 2013, 20:35 »

I don't think this will head directly to changes in FW. The way I see it, these alliances came into existance without really making sense outside game mechanics. Introducing these new dynamics, what they're doing is really fleshing out those relations, showing that the alliances aren't as solid as they seem, just mostly arrangements of convenience with their own inner tensions and problems. I see it more as a greying and developing of the background than actually heading to changes in FW.
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BloodBird

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Re: Uprising....
« Reply #17 on: 12 Apr 2013, 20:42 »

I don't think this will head directly to changes in FW. The way I see it, these alliances came into existance without really making sense outside game mechanics. Introducing these new dynamics, what they're doing is really fleshing out those relations, showing that the alliances aren't as solid as they seem, just mostly arrangements of convenience with their own inner tensions and problems. I see it more as a greying and developing of the background than actually heading to changes in FW.

I really, really hope this is the case. I am sure we all have seen what CCP has considered good ideas in the past, I am not going to be happy with a repeat of a super-derp moment like the 'one day war'.
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Nicoletta Mithra

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Re: Uprising....
« Reply #18 on: 12 Apr 2013, 21:16 »

I don't think they will  flip alliances to Gallente-Amarr and Caldari-Matari...

I think they will dissolve the Alliances, though. Not sure if this will lead to (armed) conflict between the former allies, though I wouldn't be surprised.
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: Uprising....
« Reply #19 on: 12 Apr 2013, 23:16 »

I think alliances will be dropped, and gameplay wise this will just drop the inter-connectivity between Amarr/Caldari and Gallente/Minmatar.

These were bad alliances to begin with anyway.

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Silver Night

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Re: Uprising....
« Reply #20 on: 13 Apr 2013, 00:19 »

I think alliances will be dropped, and gameplay wise this will just drop the inter-connectivity between Amarr/Caldari and Gallente/Minmatar.

These were bad alliances to begin with anyway.

I would tend to agree with the sentiment, and hope for the result. I don't know that they were exactly bad alliances, but I would see them as improbably close. So with luck there will be a de-linking.

Nicoletta Mithra

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Re: Uprising....
« Reply #21 on: 13 Apr 2013, 07:59 »

The thing I see with it is, the Alliances worked pretty good so far. They have been proven to be assets. I don't see why one should give them up, easily and so far I'm not convinced by what CCP produced to move the factions into the direction of dissolving the alliances. It doesn't feel like a natural development to me, but forced because they want it that way. vOv
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Uprising....
« Reply #22 on: 13 Apr 2013, 08:33 »

Make the wars about something more likely and meaningful, and perhaps nerf high/low-sec mission as a consequence to this giving players incentives to go help in the war-effort etc. It could be freaking great, if done right and balanced, or maybe not if pulled off half-assedly.

Why is there always someone to systematically flamebait with "nerfing high sec missions" when it comes to the subject of incentives for players to go into lowsec ? These damn missions are already so unrewarding that I have difficulties to see it otherwise... :/

I'd like to see the alliances changed. Caldari-Matar and Amarr-Gallente. That would even out the distribution of players on each side, remove the good side/evil side paradigm, and make more sense from a training viewpoint (hey, you use shields? I use shields too!). It would also be more fun, after all this time - how does a liberal democracy handle teaming up with a monarchic theocracy? How do a State of corporations handle working with a Tribal society?

This would be a shake-up that would actually be interesting, and force everyone to make some interesting choices. Including me, with my roughly 10.00 Empire standings.  :P

But, I don't think it will happen.

Sounds interesting.

I don't see it as easily doable without the sort of storytelling that I would prefer CCP avoid - in particular on the Gallente-Amarr side of it. Unlike the Minmatar/Caldari, who before the war could have cared less about eachother, the Gallente and Amarr have quite a lot of incompatibility built in.

I could list as many as incompatibilities between the Caldari and the Minmatar, mostly on their society. Even if it is true that Gallente-Amarr are some kind of archnemesis to each other, there was also huge affinities like Aidonis-Heideran, and a supremacist mindset.

That dynamic could even become extremely deep potentially since most Amarr/Gallente would literally loathe that alliance.


EDIT : What I mean is that I don't consider the Caldari and Minmatar to be closer to each other than the Gallente and the Amarr are. Both relationships are extremely antagonistic and yet share a lot of inner values.

Where the Caldari and the Minmatar share the same inner values, their external values are completely opposed. Internally, both the Caldari and the Minmatar strive for their own people and try to evade each a different invasive/supremacist enemy. They both are very proud of their own and selfish in their own way, just willing to remain in their corner. They also both live in collectivist societies, where the individual is lessened compared to the whole entity. However, on the form, the Caldari follow meritocracy/oligarchy/plutocracy and all of this applied in a cold and efficient way (I never completely believed in passionate irrational Caldari about their traditions, they just care a lot about it because it has to be that way and not another, but that's just me), where the Minmatar mostly follow rules of seniority/symbolism/fate and all of this magnified by emotions and passion.

Where the Amarr and the Gallente share the same inner values, their external values are completely opposed. To the core, both the Gallente and the Amarr believe in a superior ideology and way of life, and both believe that every man has to better himself and others. They both believe in the well being of everyone on the long run and both are societies based on the individual before the collective. However, on the external side, well, the Gallente have that selfish hedonist prejudice, where the Amarr have that religious stuck ups cliche. Liberty vs Celestial Order. etc.

Heh, if I ever wanted to go into the rubbish, Minmatar would be fire, Caldari ice (2 faces of the same thing), Amarr earth and Gallente wind (2 faces of the same thing).

Am I rambling ? Oh yes, probably. Sorry for the derail.
« Last Edit: 13 Apr 2013, 08:55 by Lyn Farel »
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BloodBird

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Re: Uprising....
« Reply #23 on: 13 Apr 2013, 08:50 »

Make the wars about something more likely and meaningful, and perhaps nerf high/low-sec mission as a consequence to this giving players incentives to go help in the war-effort etc. It could be freaking great, if done right and balanced, or maybe not if pulled off half-assedly.

Why is there always someone to systematically flamebait with "nerfing high sec missions" when it comes to the subject of incentives for players to go into lowsec ? These damn missions are already so unrewarding that I have difficulties to see it otherwise... :/

It's not meant as flamebait at all, more like a proposed consequence of a situation where the pirate factions are directly at war with the Empires. It would be hard to explain how say, the blooders can still send large groups into Amarrian Space when the Imperial navy is bashing down the doors in Delve, for instance. Kind of needed elsewhere.

On the other hand, raids into enemy space can be an explanation.

On the other OTHER hand, missions are extremely unrealistic from a game-play and immersion standpoint anyhow, so whatever. vOv

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Lyn Farel

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Re: Uprising....
« Reply #24 on: 13 Apr 2013, 08:56 »

Sorry if I didn't understand well then.
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: Uprising....
« Reply #25 on: 13 Apr 2013, 19:18 »

When it comes to all but a handful of missions, ignoring is the best answer IMO.

After all, there are still missions that warn of "impending conflict with the Republic" which have been unchanged through the years of FW.  :ugh:
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I like the implications of Gallentians being punched in the face by walking up to a Minmatar as they so freely use another person's culture as a fad.

Gesakaarin

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Re: Uprising....
« Reply #26 on: 13 Apr 2013, 23:00 »

Might just be me, but I'd be all for having an Everybody vs. Everybody scenario, a fracturing of CONCORD authority and the creation a giant lake of lowsec where a whole bunch of ships can go in but not many get out of sort of thunderdome. Should also balkanize the factions along certain ideological/tribal/corporate/house lines to increase some of that internal friction and get people to start choosing sides within them.

Might be interesting to participate in the era where the century of enforced peace and understanding between men and nations begin to buckle under the strain of war and conflict as capsuleers and Dust Troops slowly drive the cluster into a Dark Age.

At the very least it will prevent all the cross-plexing in other zones everytime one militia hits Tier 4/5
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Lyn Farel

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Re: Uprising....
« Reply #27 on: 14 Apr 2013, 02:49 »

Interesting but I am not sure that CONCORD loyalists would appreciate that murder their faction like that.
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lallara zhuul

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Re: Uprising....
« Reply #28 on: 14 Apr 2013, 02:55 »

The pirate factions, especially Blooders, have access to Empire space because they are using gates that are unknown to the Empire.

At least this is what I gathered from the COSMOS missions.
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Aldrith Shutaq

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Re: Uprising....
« Reply #29 on: 14 Apr 2013, 04:06 »

Clearly how the leaders of the Empires now think:

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