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All male members of the Ardishapur family traditionally have their right hand amputated? See why you don't make the Emperor's mother angry.

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Author Topic: Future of Caldari Prime  (Read 3482 times)

Ghost Hunter

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Re: Future of Caldari Prime
« Reply #15 on: 10 May 2010, 16:47 »

I imagine the collective honor of the Caldari people compels them to retake their homeworld. If nothing else, it is a galactic embarrassment to their fiercely driven nature.
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Casiella

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Re: Future of Caldari Prime
« Reply #16 on: 10 May 2010, 17:19 »

I suspect that, like most other capitalists, sheer economic rationality is only part of the picture for the Caldari.
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Vikarion

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Re: Future of Caldari Prime
« Reply #17 on: 10 May 2010, 17:36 »

Does it really matter, I know historically its all like, "But its our homeworld" But the caldari have been away from CP for so long it is like Earth to everyone in new eden...nice to reminice about in the stories but having no practical use.  If the caldari are profit driven, why bother?  Maintaining the fleet of that size that deep into hostile territory for a planet isn't really that worth it and can be used for much better purposes, such as shoring defenses in Black Rise, which has much better strategic importance.

*Sorry for the lack of good grammer, tired*

Saying that the Caldari are "profit-driven" is like saying that all Americans care about is money, or all French people care about is food. It's a stereotype, and not so much a correct one as one designed to legitimize a claim.

The Caldari have a deep and conservative culture. It's not flashy, like the Gallente, or obvious, like the Amarr. It's more of a "still waters run deep" situation, and Caldari Prime's liberation is the result of a building pressure that wasn't relieved by the government before Tibus Heth: specifically, the desire of the Caldari people to be respected, powerful, and in control of their destinies.

The culture itself could be compared to a funnel - the people are by nature strong, fiercely competitive, and perhaps more prone to violence than other cultures. As such, a strong, rigid set of cultural values (the most consistently conservative in the cluster, I would argue) serves to funnel that aggression and pride into a socially useful format: economic competition and product innovation. This corresponds to the need to maximize the potential of every person in a difficult environment (Caldari Prime) without allowing those powerful drives to destroy fragile communities.

In addition, their strong faith in a Maker and in the spirits of ancestors/animism appears to be a mechanism for ensuring cooperation within their clans. It's difficult to emotionally justify grandpa going out to die in the snow for the sake of the tribe unless one believes that he will still always be with you, just not in body. Taking a cue from Cold Wind, and For the State, I would argue that the Caldari, instead of taking a confrontational approach with the environment (i.e., nature is heartless and cruel), have chosen instead a more positive view (the environment we live in forges us into a stronger people, and forces us to cooperate). This explains, to some extent, the more casual attitude we see Caldari exhibiting towards death in For the State (they'll be with their ancestors and people always) while still maintaining a fiercely competitive nature (something that tends to require a bit of individualism).

Now, the Gallente come along, coerce (according to CCP) the less developed Caldari into a Federation, and then run roughshod over their traditions and culture (Cultural Deliverance Society? Sheesh!). When the Caldari decide to take their toys and go home, the Gallente respond by trying to exterminate their race (and there's no other reasonable explanation for the quotes in FW and the actions in the Chrons).

How would the Caldari feel about this?

Well, first, they've lost the "forge" of their people. The Caldari are somewhat unique in their tie to their homeland, it might even be considered similar to the Jews and Israel. Moreover, such a loss shames them in the eyes of their ancestors, just as you might feel a bit embarrassed at crashing your parent's car. Magnify that by about a thousand times, and you'll have the Caldari response to such a loss. It's also likely that they feel as though they have failed each other - each generation that grows up separated from their homeland.

Besides that, there's also the wounded pride, and the desire for revenge. Ask the Jews if they've forgotten the Holocaust. Systematic attempts to exterminate a people aren't soon forgotten, and I'd wager money that Germany is still viewed in a pretty dim light by quite a few in Israel. Now, for the Caldari, add to that the fact that the Federation still holds the stance that what they did was perfectly justified, or at least a reasonable reaction to Nouvelle Rouvenour. Add to that the original insults of extreme cultural imperialism and intentional condescension, and you have a recipe for a thousand-year grudge.

But it's not just revenge. Ultimately, I think the Caldari desire for their homeworld comes back to their view of it as a mold for their people. It's a "This is what we are, because of where we came from" sort of thing. You can't tell people that they should leave their home in the hands of an enemy just because that will allow peace. To them, that is peace at too high a price, the price of abandoning who they are.

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Nascent

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Re: Future of Caldari Prime
« Reply #18 on: 11 May 2010, 20:18 »

In addition, their strong faith in a Maker and in the spirits of ancestors/animism appears to be a mechanism for ensuring cooperation within their clans. It's difficult to emotionally justify grandpa going out to die in the snow for the sake of the tribe unless one believes that he will still always be with you, just not in body. Taking a cue from Cold Wind, and For the State, I would argue that the Caldari, instead of taking a confrontational approach with the environment (i.e., nature is heartless and cruel), have chosen instead a more positive view (the environment we live in forges us into a stronger people, and forces us to cooperate). This explains, to some extent, the more casual attitude we see Caldari exhibiting towards death in For the State (they'll be with their ancestors and people always) while still maintaining a fiercely competitive nature (something that tends to require a bit of individualism).
Holy ancestor-worship Batman, I understand the Caldari now.   :eek:

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Svetlana Scarlet

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Re: Future of Caldari Prime
« Reply #19 on: 12 May 2010, 06:55 »

Keep in mind that before Heth, even most Patriots were not exactly pushing the idea of retaking Caldari Prime seriously.  Liberals, who seek an accord with the Federation, were not particularly interested, and Practicals probably simply considered it untenable (which Heth has not proven to be false, btw), making any questions of "want" rather moot.  Since the invasion, the Patriots have been by far the most supportive of the occupation (or the continued liberation, depending on your POV), but that doesn't mean they were all pushing for it prior to it actually happening.

There's always been some faction of Caldari which has called for an abandonment of Caldari Prime and called the desire to retake it foolhardy -- Svetlana was saying that 5 years ago, and was far from the only one.  Most of them seem to be Liberals or Practicals, obviously -- I can't see a Patriot saying that, even if they believed it.
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