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[Ghost Hunter]

Okay, so we've had a fairly respectful discussion of "space-lesbians" and I actually think that give that we may be able to have a conversation about something that, while rather closely linked, is probably deserving of its own thread.

That topic is ERP, or cybering, or erotic roleplay, or whatever you might call it. The act of roleplaying your character having sex. ERP is something a lot of people have seemingly strong opinions of. Its often mocked by those who disagree with it, and treated silly, but is there anything wrong with it in and of itself? If both players want to do it, is it okay? Please keep the conversation respectful, I understand this is something people have strong opinions about. Lets avoid doingitrong.

Fundamentally, if all involved parties wish to participate, I think there is nothing consensually wrong. Sexuality is something we all indulge in to some extent or another, this is merely a form of fantasy sharing.

I think a core issue is location, location, location. The most volatile responses I've seen to ERP tend to be to the ones that occur in public areas. Any ERP actions cause an immediate reaction usually aimed at trying to expel it. This has a valid basis in that such activities shouldn't be public due to possible (under aged) users behind characters. Social factors are the next basis, but sexual perception varies widely - any reason is as good as the next here.

Otherwise, the ones I see opposing ERP typically do so because they don't think sexual fantasy sharing is something to be done, or they're tired of seeing it in their spheres. These two points are the most common angles I see opponents swing between - often with some overlap.

I myself sit in the camp of 'tired of seeing it'. I've seen many public attempts at ERP and often used to intentionally sabotage a conversation in action. Thus, since I've never seen 'effective' ERP, I tend to mentally associate these ERPs with the act over all. This is incorrect of course, but as I have no wish to see effective ERP my perception remains unchangeable.

The act itself in its purpose I don't disagree with, but my root issues with it come from the mishandling many of its users tend to employ it for. Light ERP could add great atmosphere to the bar scenes in the game, but I have yet to seen it done tacitly.

[Natalcya Katla]

Maybe not for us but possibly for them since they could be using it to replace RL relationships which I think we could all agree is not the most healthy of things.

Personally, I don't see why simulated romance and sex can't be a perfectly valid substitute for the "real thing". Certainly not for everybody, but I certainly don't agree that deliberately pursuing the single lifestyle IRL (and getting whatever "kicks" you need through such means as ERP) is intrinsically and universally bad or unhealthy.

[Katrina Oniseki]

What bothers me about ERP is when one of the two players allows the majority of RP interaction between to characters to devolve into little more than ERP. Once one of the players begins using the interaction between characters more as a sexual fulfillment venue, instead of wanting to explore the other varied and meaningful aspects of the relationship (whatever that may be), the RP has effectively died.

"If ERP isn't on the dinner table tonight, they aren't hungry for RP." That's a problem. I'm not against roleplaying a hot coffee scene, with full graphical detail and all the bells and whistles - but I want more than that. I want to see our characters do more than fuck together. I want to see them cry together, laugh together, and get bored together! I want them to explore strange new worlds, see out new fights and new generalizations, to boldly fly where no pod has flown before!

I want a fully featured and meaningful friendship or relationship with whoever it is I've ERP'd with. Oh I guess I spilled the beans. Yes I ERP, but as an additive to a whole RP storyline... not the core of it. If our characters have reason to be having sex, and my partner has the interest and time to spend on such a scene, sure... let's do it.

If people are against mutual smut writing, that is their prerogative. Some people think porn is bad, and some people think showing skin is bad. To each their own... but I've an open mind about sexuality and ERP as long as it adds value to the rest of the RP, and doesn't become the whole reason two characters (IC and OOC) are still interacting.

[Saede Riordan]

What bothers me about ERP is when one of the two players allows the majority of RP interaction between to characters to devolve into little more than ERP. Once one of the players begins using the interaction between characters more as a sexual fulfillment venue, instead of wanting to explore the other varied and meaningful aspects of the relationship (whatever that may be), the RP has effectively died.

"If ERP isn't on the dinner table tonight, they aren't hungry for RP." That's a problem. I'm not against roleplaying a hot coffee scene, with full graphical detail and all the bells and whistles - but I want more than that. I want to see our characters do more than fuck together. I want to see them cry together, laugh together, and get bored together! I want them to explore strange new worlds, see out new fights and new generalizations, to boldly fly where no pod has flown before!

I want a fully featured and meaningful friendship or relationship with whoever it is I've ERP'd with. Oh I guess I spilled the beans. Yes I ERP, but as an additive to a whole RP storyline... not the core of it. If our characters have reason to be having sex, and my partner has the interest and time to spend on such a scene, sure... let's do it.

If people are against mutual smut writing, that is their prerogative. Some people think porn is bad, and some people think showing skin is bad. To each their own... but I've an open mind about sexuality and ERP as long as it adds value to the rest of the RP, and doesn't become the whole reason two characters (IC and OOC) are still interacting.

This is quite well said and I totally agree. ERP should add to the RP. It shouldn't be the RP.

[Matoko]

I've participated in a variety of ERP over the years, and a lot of what's being said matches up with my own opinions on it, from others who participate and even from those who don't.

There's a time and place for everything; public channels are generally not it. Now, you can still have a sexual character in public, but there's a difference between heavy flirtation and bang'n on the bartop. The first is OK, the second is not. Me personally, I am a full supporter of the fade-to-black rule when it comes to public venues. I.e; you can make it obvious what's going to happen, but the actual ERP should be done in a private conversation. If you follow up with it at all. This is where a lot of my experiences come in from, the fade-to-black style.

I'll also echo the sentiment that it should supplement the characters' story, not replace it. The occasional one night stand is all right (because smut is honestly just fun to write sometimes), but if that's all the character has, they're either incredibly shallow, or they aren't operating on the same social expectations of the physical act as everyone else (having a character of the latter is an interesting thing to poke around with, I have discovered). Most encounters should mean something, or at least be meaningful. Again, sometimes the implication thereof is just as powerful as the act, at least publicly.

[Desiderya]

What bothers me about ERP is when one of the two players allows the majority of RP interaction between to characters to devolve into little more than ERP. Once one of the players begins using the interaction between characters more as a sexual fulfillment venue, instead of wanting to explore the other varied and meaningful aspects of the relationship (whatever that may be), the RP has effectively died.

"If ERP isn't on the dinner table tonight, they aren't hungry for RP." That's a problem. I'm not against roleplaying a hot coffee scene, with full graphical detail and all the bells and whistles - but I want more than that. I want to see our characters do more than fuck together. I want to see them cry together, laugh together, and get bored together! I want them to explore strange new worlds, see out new fights and new generalizations, to boldly fly where no pod has flown before!

I want a fully featured and meaningful friendship or relationship with whoever it is I've ERP'd with. Oh I guess I spilled the beans. Yes I ERP, but as an additive to a whole RP storyline... not the core of it. If our characters have reason to be having sex, and my partner has the interest and time to spend on such a scene, sure... let's do it.

If people are against mutual smut writing, that is their prerogative. Some people think porn is bad, and some people think showing skin is bad. To each their own... but I've an open mind about sexuality and ERP as long as it adds value to the rest of the RP, and doesn't become the whole reason two characters (IC and OOC) are still interacting.

Nailed it. (punintended)

[Ché Biko]

I agree with the general opinions on this topic, and with this:

Personally, I don't see why simulated romance and sex can't be a perfectly valid substitute for the "real thing". Certainly not for everybody, but I certainly don't agree that deliberately pursuing the single lifestyle IRL (and getting whatever "kicks" you need through such means as ERP) is intrinsically and universally bad or unhealthy.

It can also be used as a "safe" way to act out certain fantasies ones own RL partner might not be compatible with.

Even if its sole reason why characters interact, OOC or IC, it can be good.
IC because IRL, it happens as well.
OOC because sometimes you'll have no suitable characters (either because the players don't want it, or it would affect their RP/interaction in an undesired way) around in your regular circle to ERP with, but are not interested in/have the time for developing and maintaining another intensive relationship. It could be that a player is a  ERP-er but not a good RP-er in general .

A sexual relationship can give birth to interesting plot lines or can also pump some new life in a RP relationship between characters that have interacted with eachother for a long time. Sometimes (if not most times) sex will have consequences: pregnancy, jealousy and new enemies, subtle or not so subtle changes in how characters interact (good or bad), unexpected alliances, an FC not responding to a CTA, waking up to find your vault cracked, being blackmailed, and falling in love (sometimes with a (sleeper) spy that seduces you). But of course you don't have to ERP to enjoy those benefits.

During my time in EVE, I've had only 2 ERP sessions so far, but it looks like that will change soon.
The first, about 8 months ago, was a kick-off point to a plot line that entertained quite some time, and I'm not even completely sure if I've heard the last of it (no, she's not pregnant).
The second took place early this week, and IC it had almost the same positive effect as OOC, namely to serve as a welcome break from a considerable period of drama-doomgloom-drama-sad-drama. Sometimes its the easiest way to give your character a break, and/or have an excuse to write something else than "/me bursts into tears", "I'll kill you!" or "I'm so happy!" for the umpteenth time that week.
(Multiple punsintended)

[Ember Vykos]

Maybe not for us but possibly for them since they could be using it to replace RL relationships which I think we could all agree is not the most healthy of things.

Personally, I don't see why simulated romance and sex can't be a perfectly valid substitute for the "real thing". Certainly not for everybody, but I certainly don't agree that deliberately pursuing the single lifestyle IRL (and getting whatever "kicks" you need through such means as ERP) is intrinsically and universally bad or unhealthy.

I meant relationships period. As in all of them interpersonal and romantic.

That actually touched on a broader subject of using RP and/or ERP to replace RL which I  believe is fairly unhealthy since I have been there, but I did overgeneralize a bit so sorry for that.

[Gesakaarin]

My only real issue with ERP is that it can take so long to type it all out and finally get to the biscuit unlike the instant gratification I'm used to. 

[Ava Starfire]

Never ERPed.

Which is odd. My sex life sucks.

[Ché Biko]

Never ERPed.

<_<
>_>
Oi Ava! I want you to stop being such a b*tch. Are you bloody coming out, or what? *spits*
 

[Samira Kernher]

What bothers me about ERP is when one of the two players allows the majority of RP interaction between to characters to devolve into little more than ERP. Once one of the players begins using the interaction between characters more as a sexual fulfillment venue, instead of wanting to explore the other varied and meaningful aspects of the relationship (whatever that may be), the RP has effectively died.

"If ERP isn't on the dinner table tonight, they aren't hungry for RP." That's a problem. I'm not against roleplaying a hot coffee scene, with full graphical detail and all the bells and whistles - but I want more than that. I want to see our characters do more than fuck together. I want to see them cry together, laugh together, and get bored together! I want them to explore strange new worlds, see out new fights and new generalizations, to boldly fly where no pod has flown before!

This, so much. Over the years I've played plenty of characters who have entered into intimate relationships. Most of them are good, character-developing interactions. But one I had before was more or less what you describe. My character's partner basically demanding ERP in every RP interaction, getting mad at me both IC and OOC when I said I/my character wasn't in the mood, and yelling at me for my character interacting with other male characters.

So glad I managed to get out of that one. It had become extremely discomforting.


And I have to say, I'm so happy to see such mature opinions on the topic here. I'm used to these kind of threads in other MMOs being filled with nothing but comments like, "There's no character development in ERP! You're all sluts/whores/bad RPers, doing it only to get your rocks off no matter what you claim! You should just get a partner/watch porn instead!" The responses here are a very refreshing change from that.

[Katrina Oniseki]

This, so much. Over the years I've played plenty of characters who have entered into intimate relationships. Most of them are good, character-developing interactions. But one I had before was more or less what you describe. My character's partner basically demanding ERP in every RP interaction, getting mad at me both IC and OOC when I said I/my character wasn't in the mood, and yelling at me for my character interacting with other male characters.

To be honest, that sounds like less of an ERP or Roleplaying problem, and more of a serious issue with your partner. It sounds like the person was becoming possessive of you, probably because they saw you the player as somebody they were in an OOC relationship with, and thus got angry when they saw you with others.

That's an OOC red flag right there, highlighting somebody with a serious emotional or mental instability.

[Samira Kernher]

Yeah, I'm aware... it ended up killing all interest I had in playing that character. I used it as an example since in my personal experience, when someone starts focusing on the ERP over the rest of the RP it's probably a sign that they care too much about the OOC rather than the IC.

[Natalcya Katla]

I meant relationships period. As in all of them interpersonal and romantic.

That actually touched on a broader subject of using RP and/or ERP to replace RL which I  believe is fairly unhealthy since I have been there, but I did overgeneralize a bit so sorry for that.

Ah, I see. Yeah, I agree with that.