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Author Topic: An Amarrian martial arts system.  (Read 2560 times)

Nicoletta Mithra

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An Amarrian martial arts system.
« on: 02 Mar 2013, 09:22 »

As there are martial arts out there for Caldari and now also Matari, I thought the Amarr, especially the Sarumites, deserve a martial arts system themselves. It's inspired by La Verdadera Destreza, the Spanish system of fencing (and obviously takes the name from it) as per Carranza, as well as Aikido and Parthian/Mongolian bow:
 
E Verdhart Destrasaj is an Amarrian martial arts system. The word “destrasaj” comes from the words “destra”, which is commonly translated as “main/sword hand”, and "rasaj", which  is most often translated as “skill”, but also as “wisdom”, “perfection”, “access” or “art”. The full name is possibly best translated from Amarrad as “The veritable art of swordsmanship”.

Swordsmanship, then, is what E Verdhart Destrasaj puts the prime focus on, but one needs to keep in mind that it is a well rounded martial arts system, aiming at preparing it's students for combat and war with a sufficient repertoire of skills for any situation. Ultimately it's being intended as a universal method of fighting applicable to all weapon and bare hand fighting.

Being a martial arts system Destrasaj mainly consists of three intertwined martial arts: fencing, unarmed and ranged, that are conjointly understood as forming one unified system:
All students begin training in fencing learning to handle the traditional weapons like the rapier, sabres, swords first,  the more advanced student uses those also in combination with dagger, cloak, buckler and shields. Once the student mastered those to the degree that he is adept in their use, the melee school of Destrasaj offers taining in using dagger and knife, the two-handed sword, the flail and pole arms.
Alternatively many students go for one of the alternative ways, that is the bow and hand-to-hand combat. Unarmed combat in Destresaj focuses on a wrestling style that mainly employs throws and joint locks.
The bow techniques usually come together with riding exercises, as they're having a focus on horseback techniques, especially in regard to shooting and students that are focusing on ranged combat are reputed to be incredible exact marksmen while moving, showing clear Khanid influences in this branch.
In modern warfare it's principles are applied successfully to the use of laser rifles, bayonets and such.

E Verdhart Destrasaj is tied to an intellectual, philosophical and moral ideal, that is firmly informed by Amarrian religion. Its precepts are based on important fields of a well-rounded Amarrian education and thus firmly grounded in reason, anatomy, mathmatics - especially sacred geometry, certain occult parts of the Scriptures and the Amarrian religion, understanding itself as a science of how to employ the human body and mind as effective weapon as well as a philosophy that guides one in the use of the science, holding up to a code of chivalry, defending the faith and holding up righteousness.

In style it is distinguished from other martial arts systems by a tight focus on bio-mechanics and a general preference for circular movements over straight lines, downward movements over upward movements and also by stressing tempo/rhythm. The three branches of Destresaj are unified by a more conceptual and theoretical approach than most other Amarrian martial arts: it aims to require little physical strength, rather using the opponents momentum against him or making use of the lever principle or advantageous angles of attack. In accord with that, special importance is placed on training the intellectual and spiritual qualities of the students, not only their physique, thus involving solving geometrical problems as well as meditating on famous sayings of ancient teachers and certain parts of the Scriptures.

E Verdhart Destrasaj training is thought to represent the struggle between good and evil, in which the practician of the art should be firmly on the side of good. This struggle is mainly understood as an inward one, but also one that is represented by actions in the outside world. There is a connection to various monastic and mystical movements in the Empire as well as to some of the Khanid cults that have a martial bend. Training is usually opened by the fighters dedicating themselves to the good cause and to further the divine plan. There is a prevalence for metaphors that make use of light (and darkness).

Destrasaj is mainly practiced in the Sarumite domains, but it claims to have an unbroken tradition reaching back to the first Reclaiming, arising as an alternative to the more traditional schools of fighting as practiced in the times of inner Amarrian conflict between the city-states. It claims to have been the first rationally systematized study of the martial arts within Amarrian culture. There is some evidence for that in the book "The Philosophy of Arms and of Its Art and the Amarrian Offense and Defense" by a minor holder, who had his estates in the then conquered lands of Ves-Udor which the Sarum family can track as one of it's ancestors. This is one of the reason that many practitioners of Destrasaj feel some degree of loyalty to Sarum.

Even though E Verdhart Destrasaj is known to produce great masters of the martial art, it's not very commonly studied within the Empire, due to it's rigorous and encompassing training program, that requires a lot of dedication and the encompassing requirements that it puts on its students, physically, mentally and spiritually. Few people have the energy to pull through this, especially if they  simply want to learn to defend themselves. Even amongst the Sarumites most nobles rather dedicate themselves to leading troops and the study of strategy and tactics. Amongst the commoners it's competing with other (systems of) martial arts. It remains, thus, in the hands of a relatively small elite.

Quotes from famous practitioners and teachers:
"Learn modesty, if you desire knowledge. A highland would never be irrigated by river."
"A well executed thrust is as piercing and inescapable as a logically sound and valid argument."
"Solving the problem of indecisiveness is the advent of veracity."

Thoughts on this? :)
« Last Edit: 04 Mar 2013, 17:16 by Nicoletta Mithra »
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Chell Charon

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Re: An Amarrian martial arts system.
« Reply #1 on: 02 Mar 2013, 11:43 »

Soft style. One of those 'stay home for the first decade' ones where actual self-defence is hardbought due to the amount of study needed before it turns into a combat effective one?

It's not bad just seems slightly out of place for Sarum. But you covered that with a note on it's rarity. Someone will have to come up with a hard style for a counter balance. Maybe a bit ambitious including such large variety of weapons?
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Nicoletta Mithra

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Re: An Amarrian martial arts system.
« Reply #2 on: 02 Mar 2013, 13:48 »

Reworked a section to make clearer that Destrasaj is more intended to be understood as a system of martial arts unified by a common philosophy. The range of weapons that Destrasaj teaches is identical to that of La Verdadera Destreza. Shooting with the bow and unarmed combat are basically martial arts in their own rights, offered to be taught only to advanced students of fencing, with the idea that you teach the student how to apply the principles they learned with the weapon in unarmed combat or with the bow.

I don't think that the division between 'hard' and 'soft' martial arts is particularly helpful, especially if we speak of martial arts that are european-ish, which Destresaj certainly is, being based mainly on spanish fencing. Though I see what you mean by 'soft'. Yes, Destresaj is meant to take a long time of study and dedication, it's kind of a lifestyle and career choice if you want to do it really right. I think that fits with Sarumites - don't think people of any other domain would put that much effort into such, save for maybe the Khanid, which would have a different flavour though, I think. It's nothing to be pursued on the side. And yes, that's why it's not meant to be widespread either.

Seeing a competing "hard" style would be nice. ;)
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lallara zhuul

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Re: An Amarrian martial arts system.
« Reply #3 on: 02 Mar 2013, 14:25 »

You might want to remove the godmoddy bits from the description.
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Arnulf Ogunkoya

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Re: An Amarrian martial arts system.
« Reply #4 on: 02 Mar 2013, 15:12 »

You might want to remove the godmoddy bits from the description.

What would those be exactly? It all looks like a reasonable depiction of an aristocratic martial arts system. One that only a rich person with plenty of leisure time could pursue.
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Nicoletta Mithra

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Re: An Amarrian martial arts system.
« Reply #5 on: 02 Mar 2013, 17:16 »

You might want to remove the godmoddy bits from the description.

What would those be exactly? It all looks like a reasonable depiction of an aristocratic martial arts system. One that only a rich person with plenty of leisure time could pursue.

If you would point out the bits you think of as godmoddy, Lallara, then I'd certainly have a look at it.

It is indeed, as you noticed Arnulf, thought of as an aristocratic martial arts system, not so much for the real highborn of the empire, but those that are rich and have a lot of leisure time nonetheless.

Actually, I'd have thought of it as something for those of the commoners that got up high in the Navy, something they would send their children to learn, probably in schools that integrate it in the curriculum, so that the children had about 12 years of training when they graduate from school - or something that is taught by a private teacher to those that have even more money and leisure time.
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lallara zhuul

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Re: An Amarrian martial arts system.
« Reply #6 on: 03 Mar 2013, 03:14 »

Just the stuff where history is rewritten to give credence to the martial arts form itself.

Quote
Destrasaj is mainly practised in the Sarumite domains, but it claims to have an unbroken tradition reaching back to the first Reclaiming, arising as an alternative to the more traditional schools of fighting as practiced in the times of inner Amarrian conflict between the city-states. It claims to have been the first rationally systematized study of the martial arts within Amarrian culture. There is some evidence for that in the book "The Philosophy of Arms and of Its Art and the Amarrian Offense and Defense" by a minor holder, who had his estates in the then conquered lands of Ves-Udor which the Sarum family can track as one of it's ancestors. This is one of the reason that many practitioners of Destresaj feel some degree of loyalty to Sarum.

I understand that you use the word 'claim' to try to avoid godmoding, but it also polarizes the reader so that either they have to call you a liar or agree with you on all points.

Like that there is a place called Ves-Udor which is a place where the House Sarum had its roots.
That in the history of Amarr there was a time where people on Athra were divided to city-states that were in conflict with each other.
The list goes on.
The fact that the whole martial arts form is linked to swordmanship and insinuates that these weapons have been used in war in the Amarrian past straight up would make people that adopt this martial arts form to prescribe to a point of view that at some point and time the Amarrians degenerated to the point of Middle Ages and waged war amongst themselves.
The mastery of sabre brings in the idea of mounted combat, the two-handed swords, flails and shields bring in the idea of knights in heavy armor duking it out on the fields of yore, the bowmanship stuff can be even used to extrapolate the fact that there would be trees on Amarr that would have been used to construct such weapons.

I can already see the eyes rolling, but in EVE PF such data mining has been the key for world building for years and years.
Especially with the Amarrian religion that has only a handful of Scripture snippets that were not even Canon before 2007.

... I could go on for a full scale rant here, but brekkies are calling.
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Nicoletta Mithra

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Re: An Amarrian martial arts system.
« Reply #7 on: 03 Mar 2013, 03:56 »

Just the stuff where history is rewritten to give credence to the martial arts form itself.

I understand that you use the word 'claim' to try to avoid godmoding, but it also polarizes the reader so that either they have to call you a liar or agree with you on all points.

So, you have a problem with the history parts? Well, let me see...

Like that there is a place called Ves-Udor...
There most definitely was a continent called Ves-Udor, and probably still is, unless it was renamed (which is nowhere indicated): "While the Amarr had settled on the northern continent of Assimia, the Udorian ancestors had instead settled on the southern continents of Ves-Udor and Cas-Udor."

...which is a place where the House Sarum had its roots.
And I didn't say that the Sarum family has it's roots there, but that a minor holder had his estates there and Sarum can track him to be among it's ancestors. That's quite different.

That in the history of Amarr there was a time where people on Athra were divided to city-states that were in conflict with each other.
Not Athra, but the Amarr were divided in city states that were in conflict with one another, is the claim here. In the time of contemplation the Amarr were living in city-states and at the foundation of the Empire there was conflict between them:
"The proto-Amarr split into several different city-states, urban centers with politically affiliated rural communities. These city-states had only limited contact with each other, primarily facilitated through traveling merchants and war bands.
[...]
The second power was warlords. Originating among religious leaders, over the centuries these powerful individuals grew more and more secular. They ruled the various city-states as their own, small kingdoms, occasionally attacking each other in an effort to extend their power. These warlords ruled solely through their own might, rather than any hereditary or religious right. The majority had their kingdoms collapse upon their deaths, though a few managed to establish short dynasties that lasted a few generations."


"In 16450 AD, a highly religious warlord named Amash-Akura initiated a war of conquest across Amarr Island from his city-state of Dam-Torsad."

The list goes on.
The fact that the whole martial arts form is linked to swordmanship and insinuates that these weapons have been used in war in the Amarrian past straight up would make people that adopt this martial arts form to prescribe to a point of view that at some point and time the Amarrians degenerated to the point of Middle Ages and waged war amongst themselves.
The mastery of sabre brings in the idea of mounted combat, the two-handed swords, flails and shields bring in the idea of knights in heavy armor duking it out on the fields of yore, the bowmanship stuff can be even used to extrapolate the fact that there would be trees on Amarr that would have been used to construct such weapons.
Now, we know by PF that the Amarr 'degenerated' to iron age stage of technological development:
"Much like other civilizations across New Eden, they slipped into a dark age for several thousand years, reverting to a primitive level of technology and society."

"Technologically, this era was characterized by early Iron Age technologies, with innovation slow and stifled by constant warfare and poor communication between city-states."

As to whether there were trees on Amarr or not, uh, how would one build ships with iron age technology without trees? Well, I know, maybe they had gigantic reed ships, but there one would have to assume that they had the right kinds of reeds for that. Bows, by the way, can be build by a wider range of materials at that technological stage and don't depend on trees.

I can already see the eyes rolling, but in EVE PF such data mining has been the key for world building for years and years.
Especially with the Amarrian religion that has only a handful of Scripture snippets that were not even Canon before 2007.

... I could go on for a full scale rant here, but brekkies are calling.

So, yes, some amount of eyes rolling here, but really, did you even read the recent PF detailing on the history of the Empire? It's easy to complain, without checking the facts first.
« Last Edit: 03 Mar 2013, 04:00 by Nicoletta Mithra »
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Graelyn

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Re: An Amarrian martial arts system.
« Reply #8 on: 03 Mar 2013, 08:38 »

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Arnulf Ogunkoya

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Re: An Amarrian martial arts system.
« Reply #9 on: 03 Mar 2013, 10:19 »

I think that Nicoletta makes a good case.

Lallara, how do you think the Amarr got good enough at conquest to take over the entire planet and then go on to conquer a huge empire if not by fighting each other first? Even now there are records of holders warring upon each other that have turned up in the old news items.

As to the use of sword, bows and so on. At the end of the day there are only so many ways to kill each other with low-tech weapons after all. The weapons might have different names, or look slightly different to their Terran analogues, but function does determine form to an extent, no?
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Graelyn

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Re: An Amarrian martial arts system.
« Reply #10 on: 03 Mar 2013, 19:40 »

Holders are ALWAYS Warring with each other.

There are simply rules to the whole thing.
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lallara zhuul

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Re: An Amarrian martial arts system.
« Reply #11 on: 04 Mar 2013, 08:20 »

Thanks for the added info.

It seems like Ves-Udor is Ardishapur domain according to the EVElopedia, you might want to change that to somewhere else, unless you want to say that the Sarum have risen from the domains that the Ardishapur own?

Which would be quite cool.

I know EVElopedia is better than nothing, but... ffs.
« Last Edit: 04 Mar 2013, 08:23 by lallara zhuul »
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Nicoletta Mithra

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Re: An Amarrian martial arts system.
« Reply #12 on: 04 Mar 2013, 09:00 »

The Ardishapur family rose to control Ves-Udor only in the Time of Short Calm, which was after the Udorian continents of Ves-Udor and Cas-Udor were already fully reclaimed. The author of the fencing manual lived before that time, when only Ves-Udor was reclaimed - so after 20185 AD and before 20371 AD. Back then the Ardishapur weren't in (full) control of Ves-Udor. The first great holder families began to emerge truely only after Cas-Udor and Assima were conquered as well. As such the founder of Destresaj lived even before the true emergence of the Sarum family. 

That a minor holder who had his holdings on Ves-Udor can be tracked to be in the ancestral line of the Sarum family says nothing about where it had it's original holdings, nor that the Sarum family has risen from Ardishapur's ancestral domain. Maybe the family of said founding figure lost the holdings after the death of him and then relocated to the lands where the Sarum family would arise? I don't know where the Sarum family started to form and it might have formed somewhere else entirely and the main root of them may had their geographical base God knows where - it doesn't make much difference.

As I'm just saying that some side root, which is probably pretty unimportant for the Sarum family at large, reaches back to some minor holder, who is the founding figure of Destrasaj and who happened to have his holdings on Ves-Udor, which was practically the only place to have holdings on if you gained them through conquest (the other holdings still all being on Amarr island and in the hands of established holders). Maybe the Ardihapur have some branches that can track their ancestry back to that holder as well and maybe other families can do so as well. No one bothered to do so, though, and it's maybe only known because some Sarumite thought of pointing that out as a savvy move to ensure some degree of loyalty of the Destrasaj fencers to Sarum or somesuch. Or maybe said author was renown for his belligerence and efforts in the reclaiming and the Sarum family thought it'd fit their portfolio to have him in their ancestral galleries. Who knows? vOv

Anyway, there is no claim to where the Sarum family did arise, really.
« Last Edit: 04 Mar 2013, 09:09 by Nicoletta Mithra »
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Lunarisse Aspenstar

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Re: An Amarrian martial arts system.
« Reply #13 on: 04 Mar 2013, 14:28 »

This is fascinating Nicolleta and I will have to try to see if I can work this into a character someday!
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Nicoletta Mithra

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Re: An Amarrian martial arts system.
« Reply #14 on: 04 Mar 2013, 17:17 »

\o/ would be cool. :D
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