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Author Topic: A request  (Read 7559 times)

Leopold Caine

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A request
« on: 17 Oct 2012, 16:56 »

I'd just like to know what is the reason that Leopold Caine suddenly got kicked out of the Summit moderation team with no IC or OOC message attached  and an important news event was moved from the MOTD, but I'll let Silas be mad about that instead I suppose.
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Graelyn

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Re: A request
« Reply #1 on: 18 Oct 2012, 00:54 »

I did it.

So ask me.

I have pleeenty of answers for you.

PS: didn't notice the news piece missing, we should fix that
PPS: Flamebait and the ensuing incoming flames don't get to be on Backstage. The rules still apply here. I've used the axe instead of the scalpel in this case.
« Last Edit: 18 Oct 2012, 01:03 by Graelyn »
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If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate!

Morwen Lagann

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Re: A request
« Reply #2 on: 18 Oct 2012, 01:30 »

Leopold, when you're stuck in a ditch the appropriate response is not to keep digging.

Oh look, I was banned from the OOC. Cute.  :bear:

This banning was for 12 hours from OOC, and was done in response to this:

Quote
[ 2012.10.16 23:16:30 ] Morwen Lagann > ... lol, I think we just had a minor earthquake
 [ 2012.10.16 23:17:15 ] Halete > When Britain had a minor earth-quake, it was horrifying.
 [ 2012.10.16 23:17:33 ] Halete > Living in a post-industrial region known for mining, I thought "Well, that's it, the street is going under."
 [ 2012.10.16 23:21:14 ] Morwen Lagann > So there was a 4.5 about 15 miles away from the cabin in maine. looool >_>
 [ 2012.10.16 23:21:31 ] Morwen Lagann > http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/at00mc0dsp#summary
 [ 2012.10.16 23:26:23 ] Leopold Caine > www.noonegivesafuckmorwen.com

This was fairly self-explanatory. You would've bitched your head off if I or someone else had done that to you - instead of doing that myself, I spoke to the other online moderators and was told a 12-hour ban was appropriate. It was put in, with the expectation you would not do something like that again.

Oh look, randomly banned from OOC again. Cute.

Again, like Tib said, it was anything but random, and entirely warranted, even according to Graelyn. I logged in this morning, spoke with some folks in Red's, and on my way out to the store figured I'd check OOC to see if anything was going on since it was blinking. I was greeted with this, without having said anything in the channel:

Quote
[ 2012.10.17 13:48:02 ] Shino Gekai > So wheres that cunt morwen? Still crying because shes a shit logi?
 [ 2012.10.17 13:48:25 ] Leopold Caine > Incursions are srs bznsss, Shino.
 [ 2012.10.17 13:48:35 ] Shino Gekai > You're joking
 [ 2012.10.17 13:48:37 ] Salena Ashera > Especially the amount of time you've been doing them
 [ 2012.10.17 13:48:45 ] Salena Ashera > thats especially srs bsns
 [ 2012.10.17 13:48:48 ] Shino Gekai > I had no idea
 [ 2012.10.17 13:48:57 ] Shino Gekai > Clearly im doing it wrong
 [ 2012.10.17 13:49:15 ] Leopold Caine > Yeah, I've been doing srs bznss before you started playing Salena, so vOv
 [ 2012.10.17 13:49:30 ] Salena Ashera > Yep, clearly I have no right to try srsbsns
 [ 2012.10.17 13:49:47 ] Leopold Caine > srsbznss.
 [ 2012.10.17 13:49:53 ] Leopold Caine > is srs

If you genuinely do not see what is wrong with your behavior there, then it's no surprise you don't understand why you lost your position on the Summit's moderator team. It's a prime example of un-moderatorlike behavior: instead of chastising the inexcusably out of line - and unwarranted - comments from Shino as befits a moderator, you and Salena (Anxiang) joined in and played along. It became quite clear that you had not learned the lesson from the previous night, and I conferred with the only other moderator around, and was told the following:

Permanent ban for Shino.
24 hours for you and Salena.

I put in the bans, then I forwarded the logs along to the moderators whose email addresses I had handy - Tib and Esna -  and multiple people reported Shino's behavior as well as yours and Salena's to Graelyn directly. You want to know why you lost your moderator position in the Summit? That right there is why.

A final word of advice for you and Anxiang, as neither of you were permanently banned and will be allowed back in the channel as of approximately 14:00 EVE time: Sort your shit out, and don't continue down this path. It won't be tolerated.

(Edit: Removed segment responding to deleted posts.)
« Last Edit: 18 Oct 2012, 09:40 by Morwen Lagann »
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2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.

Tiberious Thessalonia

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Re: A request
« Reply #3 on: 18 Oct 2012, 04:28 »

I went ahead and fixed the issue with the newspiece missing.  I got rid of it yesterday during the mess with updating the MOTD because we suspected length was causing the MOTD to mess up.

If you'd like it to say something different, please let me know.
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Niraia

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Re: A request
« Reply #4 on: 18 Oct 2012, 07:27 »

"Still, I'm glad you care about the fate of the channel. I really am always looking for ways to improve." ~Graelyn
"If you don't like the rules, you can leave the channel. It's really really easy to do." ~Morwen

I'm starting to see why so many people have issues with you, Morwen. I'm honestly disappointed.
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Saede Riordan

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Re: A request
« Reply #5 on: 18 Oct 2012, 08:08 »

The thing is, the Summit/OOC isn't some RPers Right. It, like everything else, is a privilege that can be revoked for poor behavior. Shino, Leo, and Salena broke the rules in OOC and got temp bans for it, and the fact that Leopold was involved in that obviously contributed to his loss of mod status. I don't see how the moderators acted poorly in this situation. Stillwater is not being victimized or politicized, however much certain people within Stillwater seem to be trying to play the victim. They received the exact same treatment as everyone else, and if any of you think that calling someone a cunt is appropriate channel behavior then try it and see what happens.
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Graelyn

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Re: A request
« Reply #6 on: 18 Oct 2012, 08:45 »

"Still, I'm glad you care about the fate of the channel. I really am always looking for ways to improve." ~Graelyn
"If you don't like the rules, you can leave the channel. It's really really easy to do." ~Morwen

I'm starting to see why so many people have issues with you, Morwen. I'm honestly disappointed.

Your only post on this board is to complain about Morwen.

You've sent mails to me. They have all been about how you don't like Morwen (and requesting to be a mod?). Every one happens to coincide with Leo here getting into some trouble.

How seriously should I take your complaints and suggestions?
« Last Edit: 18 Oct 2012, 08:48 by Graelyn »
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If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate!

Niraia

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Re: A request
« Reply #7 on: 18 Oct 2012, 08:50 »

I was called an asshole in there not that long ago by some nameless crazy, with mods around, but nothing happened. I can brush that off, but it's important to show consistency when penalising users, otherwise you end up looking like an idiot, and lose their respect. I was also banned from the summit on the whim of someone I'd never said a word to, having remained silent in there for the best part of a quarter, not that long ago. Moderation of summit/ooc has always been fueled by personal grievance, from what I've experienced. I think that's maybe why we're seeing things like this happen. I've written to Graelyn about it frequently, but despite his reassurances, nothing seems to change. Since the consensus appears to be "deal with it or leave", I'd expect to see alternative channels (and forums, since posts are being deleted) surface, if they haven't already. Shame.
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Niraia

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Re: A request
« Reply #8 on: 18 Oct 2012, 08:56 »

You've sent mails to me. They have all been about how you don't like Morwen (and requesting to be a mod?). Every one happens to coincide with Leo here getting into some trouble.

I've never once said I don't like Morwen. I think he's alright, we haven't really spoken much, but I've had issues with his moderation. I'm quite able to seperate the moderator from the person, things aren't always black and white.

I've request to be a mod because your current mods haven't been doing a good job in my and others' opinion.

My latest mail to you coincided with Leo getting into trouble. I didn't really know him until a couple of weeks ago.

How seriously should I take your complaints and suggestions?

That's up to you, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't misrepresent them as you've done here.
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Graelyn

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Re: A request
« Reply #9 on: 18 Oct 2012, 08:58 »

I was called an asshole in there not that long ago by some nameless crazy, with mods around, but nothing happened. I can brush that off, but it's important to show consistency when penalising users, otherwise you end up looking like an idiot, and lose their respect. I was also banned from the summit on the whim of someone I'd never said a word to, having remained silent in there for the best part of a quarter, not that long ago. Moderation of summit/ooc has always been fueled by personal grievance, from what I've experienced. I think that's maybe why we're seeing things like this happen. I've written to Graelyn about it frequently, but despite his reassurances, nothing seems to change. Since the consensus appears to be "deal with it or leave", I'd expect to see alternative channels (and forums, since posts are being deleted) surface, if they haven't already. Shame.

I don't think anyone else wants to put up with the bullshit we do.

I've been told for years, almost always by banned parties, that 'THIS IS IT, We're Gonna Go Make Something Where Your Rules Don't Mean Shit'

I still await word of such an endeavor.

I can assure you I would be among the first of it's hopeful userbase.
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Graelyn

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Re: A request
« Reply #10 on: 18 Oct 2012, 09:03 »

Quote
That's up to you, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't misrepresent them as you've done here.

>80% of all complaints to Summit/OOC Staff come from grudges that have nothing to do with the channel.
 Separating the real from the bullshit is such an enjoyable activity.

If I'm lumping you in with the others unfairly, then I apologize, but you see what this looks like from here, yes?
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Leopold Caine

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Re: A request
« Reply #11 on: 18 Oct 2012, 09:09 »

>80% of all complaints to Summit/OOC Staff come from grudges that have nothing to do with the channel.

Still waiting to hear what Leo did to cause such a complaint.
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Niraia

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Re: A request
« Reply #12 on: 18 Oct 2012, 09:12 »

Did you consider that may be because some of the staff have grudges themselves? I'm told this is the case by some, and while I lack the information necessary to form a solid opinion myself, I imagine it would seem worthy of consideration to you.

I can see why you might assume I have a grudge with Tib if you know my history with TS-F (god damn you all <3), which certainly isn't the case. Otherwise, I'm not sure why you'd have reason to assume that my complaints are bullshit. If you thought so, you could've told me, and I'd have stopped wasting my time.

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Graelyn

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Re: A request
« Reply #13 on: 18 Oct 2012, 09:21 »

>80% of all complaints to Summit/OOC Staff come from grudges that have nothing to do with the channel.

Still waiting to hear what Leo did to cause such a complaint.

No one complained this time, actually.
I got 4 mails going
"OMG Morwen just kicked Leo! Here are the logs! See? That's nothing! Fuck Morwen!"
My response after reading said 'defenses' was "Uhh, that's not nothing, and I sure won't have mods behaving that way."

I got another copy of the logs from the other mods. They matched. Welp.

I checked with myself to make sure I agreed. Yup.
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: A request
« Reply #14 on: 18 Oct 2012, 09:23 »

"Still, I'm glad you care about the fate of the channel. I really am always looking for ways to improve." ~Graelyn
"If you don't like the rules, you can leave the channel. It's really really easy to do." ~Morwen

I'm starting to see why so many people have issues with you, Morwen. I'm honestly disappointed.

I honestly don't give a shit whether you're "disappointed" or not. Here's why:

Your reaction to the moderator response to two displays of clearly inappropriate behavior was "omg they did nothing wrong" (they did) and "but it was actually funny" (it wasn't) and "the mods are humourless dicks," (we aren't) rather than "dude, not cool" (it wasn't) and "reporting the problem to Graelyn" (I'm guessing you didn't).

Your reaction to a rule that has been in place for almost (over?) a year that has helped reduce senseless, stupid drama and pointless work for the moderation team, is that it is "retarded", when in fact it is not. It is a rule against a particular behavior, not against the discussion subject. People can discuss slavery all they like, and the moderators only step in when people start going for blood. Bringing slaves on screen has always caused more of a ruckus, and oddly enough the majority of people who spent inordinate amounts of time complaining about (or breaking) the rule are precisely the people who have an affinity for creating pointless drama.

You are constantly giving Tiberious shit for no reason other than his membership in a corporation that you have bad history with that he was never involved in, even when he tries to help you. It was over a year ago and if you haven't figured out by now that nobody cares anymore then there's really nothing we can do.

In short:
- Don't like a particular rule? Ask nicely and provide a good reason for it to be removed rather than calling it retarded. We can't promise we'll actually change the rule just because one person asks, but you'll get past the "no, you're retarded" entry barrier at least.
- We aren't going to tolerate that kind of behavior from anyone in either channel. It doesn't matter if you think it's funny, and it doesn't matter if you don't like the mods. If you call someone a cunt, expect to be kicked in yours. End of story.
- If you can't or won't play by the rules, the door is over there. You can choose whether to be a productive member of the channel or not. But if you choose not to, you're going to end up going through that door eventually anyway - either under your own power or ours. We don't really care which.

Addressing the posts missed while I've been typing:
- Typically, when someone is misbehaving and breaking rules in a repeated fashion, moderator action against that individual tends to ramp up as well. This does not make it personal. It makes it in response to misbehavior and rule-breaking. Don't like it? Don't misbehave.
- You can say you could do a better job all you want, but your actions the last few days really don't indicate that.
- Having a grudge, and actually acting on it, are two wholly different things. Are there people who use the channel that various moderators don't like? Hell yes - there always have been. Do we single them out for moderation on that alone? Never. Why then, do some of those people find themselves being moderated anyway? Because they break rules.

Leo: You have your explanation in my first post above. You can take it or leave it - but don't pretend people haven't given you an explanation.
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Morwen's Law:
1) The number of capsuleer women who are bisexual is greater than the number who are lesbian.
2) Most of the former group appear lesbian due to a lack of suitable male partners to go around.
3) The lack of suitable male partners can be summed up in most cases thusly: interested, worth the air they breathe, available; pick two.
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