Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Silas Vitalia]

Something I notice is that overall, we as RPers try to play 'realistic' capsuleers. The thing is, we really don't. We play very atypical capsuleers, in that we haven't gone insane with power and ran off to nullsec by and large. I think its a sort of this idea of immersion via insulation. "Its only IC if I say it is" and the like. I think that attitude doesn't exactly help us. When there are facts about the game universe a given player dislikes, they often try to just insulate themselves from it, or not count it. I felt I did that as Kiki when doing FW. I tried to insulate myself from the OOC knowledge of how pointless it was, but things like that lock our characters into actions. We decide what they think about XYZ and thus build ourselves into a corner.

Essentially, we're all capsuleers at the end of the day, maybe more of us ought start really acting the part, and stop trying to ignore the realities of the game mechanics.

saaaabik   saaaaabik   saaaaabik    saaaaabik   

[Halete]

Something I notice is that overall, we as RPers try to play 'realistic' capsuleers. The thing is, we really don't.

Let me throw in my two cents, about Halete, regarding this quote. There will be a tl;dr at the bottom if you don't give a rat's ass about one person's thoughts and character, and otherwise may be skipped past if you don't want an OOC insight into her.

I'm acutely aware of the fact that I do not play a normal capsuleer.

At some point, it hit me that I must have drawn inspiration from Vampire The Masquerade P&P PHB.

There was a particular quote in a section that described one of it's systems (Humanity?) that would explain how the afflicted, in a quaint paradox of sorts would become more human than they were as humans. That is, that many imposed moral systems upon themselves so as not to succumb to the Beast. Not always moral systems that we can relate to mind you, but some kind of code of conduct to hang on to.

Capsuleers face similar problems - vastly extended lifetimes and incredibly deep pockets along with relative freedom will do some shit for your psyche. Halete, for one, battles a consuming hatred that can at times border on misanthropy - which can be traced back to before she became a Capsuleer. When she did become one, the transition was rocky and the power granted to her was beyond the scope of her comprehension.

When she finally did acclimate, it was awfully dizzying. It was only years since that she had been free, and she was very naive about many ways of the world, so it probably hit her all the harder. In retrospect, I imagine she was a lot like a lost child in the world. As a Capsuleer, she met many figures who influenced her in her still malleable state (thankfully, I might add, I don't think playing Halete as a stereotypical Shakorite slaver-basher would've been much fun) and did try, for their part, to quench her bloodlust.

How does this tie in with my VtM example of the Beast, and those who succumb to it and those who actively better themselves after unlife to avoid it?

Capsuleers are essentially immortal as far as they're concerned. Halete still has a fire in her. Even as a relatively poorly connected egger, she has a lot of wealth and power at her finger-tips. She's aware that she can consume, but also that means to become consumed - in her infinite life-time, there is no limit to the carnage that she can inflict - it's a downwards spiral, and one she is terrified of going down. She doesn't want to live to see herself become the monster, and so she acts at times contrary to her deepest desires - it isn't uncommon for her to demonstrate a level of cognitive dissonance. She has tried to make herself 'better' even if it is a masquerade.

We have characters like Ava, who wish to 'pass on' when it's their time, despite the theoretical immortality granted to her. Halete resents herself for the inwards-gnawing desires she has for vengeance (not Amarr mind you, vengeance for any perception of wrong-doing that has been inflicted on her). If she saw herself become the beast, she could always choose to end her life similarly, right? Except at the same time she is no saint and whilst she has turned her sites on charitable endeavors and peaceful talks with the Amarr she is unable to shed the incredibly addicting power that is her birthright.

tl;dr - My perception is that capsuleers can succumb to corruption or, in denial of their creeping dementia, so vehemently reject to fall that they lift themselves up and above their baseliner egos. I don't think of capsuleers are ignorant, I believe (and at least this is true for my character) that they are acutely aware that things in the Clusters are quite fucked up beyond the scope of the big Four's conflict, but push that to the back of their head lest they go completely insane. But let's face it, pushing those thoughts out of mind and rejecting your voices doesn't make you any more sane. You're still nuts.

[Louella Dougans]

Something I notice is that overall, we as RPers try to play 'realistic' capsuleers. The thing is, we really don't. We play very atypical capsuleers, in that we haven't gone insane with power and ran off to nullsec by and large. I think its a sort of this idea of immersion via insulation. "Its only IC if I say it is" and the like. I think that attitude doesn't exactly help us. When there are facts about the game universe a given player dislikes, they often try to just insulate themselves from it, or not count it. I felt I did that as Kiki when doing FW. I tried to insulate myself from the OOC knowledge of how pointless it was, but things like that lock our characters into actions. We decide what they think about XYZ and thus build ourselves into a corner.

Essentially, we're all capsuleers at the end of the day, maybe more of us ought start really acting the part, and stop trying to ignore the realities of the game mechanics.

That's a cleverly dressed up "urdoingitwrong" post, but still a "urdoingitwrong" post. And it's wrong.

Game mechanics allow you to act in all sorts of ways, that does not mean people have to accept the way they work.

You can be -10 to the Angel Cartel, and still dock in their stations, and use most of their facilities. Only penalties would be market taxes (lol), refining taxes (lol), and inability to use agents (onoes, people have to get their faction gear from complexes, how terrible). And you can do that, and call yourself an Angel Cartel Rp'er.

Or you can choose not to shoot angel cartel objects, choose to do their missions, and hold yourself to a standard that you yourself set, not what the game mechanics allow.


The inevitability of Nation perpetual incursions, or eternal faction war do not mean that good RP cannot be had.

In many places, it is how a person handles inevitability that creates the best stories.

Faction Warfare pointless, cannot be won ? Well, then, RP with that.

[Merdaneth]

Something I notice is that overall, we as RPers try to play 'realistic' capsuleers. The thing is, we really don't. We play very atypical capsuleers, in that we haven't gone insane with power and ran off to nullsec by and large. I think its a sort of this idea of immersion via insulation. "Its only IC if I say it is" and the like. I think that attitude doesn't exactly help us. When there are facts about the game universe a given player dislikes, they often try to just insulate themselves from it, or not count it. I felt I did that as Kiki when doing FW. I tried to insulate myself from the OOC knowledge of how pointless it was, but things like that lock our characters into actions. We decide what they think about XYZ and thus build ourselves into a corner.

The only way to play 'realistic capsuleer' is not to play it as ourselves, players of a online computer game.

The EVE online world is full of internal inconsistencies that doesn't make for any good realistic play. The PF is mostly to blame here. The creators of EVE keep trying to sketch an image of EVE that just isn't there. Mission agents actually behave like Kruul or Sangril Min haven't been killed a thousand times already. Mission agents seem to believe that you can actually affect the world by performing missions (other than putting isk in the pockets of players). All objects in mission deadspaces miracalously disappear after finishing the mission. NPC ships behave like they are not piloted by people who actually care about their lives or have any capacity to predict the outcome of a fights. No NPC ever jumps through a stargate, and all NPC trading seems to be in-system. etc. etc.

If you do not insulate yourself against this kind of stuff, you can't properly RP a character living in a post-modern universe, you can only RP a character in a game.

[Saede Riordan]

But Merd, then I guess the question becomes, where do you draw the line?

*Is the show info in character?
*Are corp titles?
*Are missions?
*What about PVP?
*What about people who say they're not capsuleers when their show info says otherwise?

I'm not saying that we should bow down and worship the game mechanics, because those mechanics are obviously rather flawed and don't pain the universe very well. But we can't just completely ignore the mechanics either. Where does that line of insulation get drawn? Because it seems like everyone draws it in a different place, making it very easy to blur OOC and IC together.

[Halete]

Eh, what's all this then? I thought we'd been saying 'space is IC' for a while now.

Besides, I'm failing to see how accepting the limits of game mechanics IC - or working around them, either which way - prevents us from properly roleplaying.

[lallara zhuul]

None of the capsuleers should be suffering from capsuleer dementia.

At least not the kind that has something to do with a long lifespan.

Because none of them have been capsuleers for that long...

Even the immortality and demigod things can turn out to be nothing but faction propaganda to make the capsuleers easier to control through funneling their hubris.

[Merdaneth]

But Merd, then I guess the question becomes, where do you draw the line?

Everybody draws the line differently, that is one of the root causes of tensions between RPers. Some things I have difficulty with, other people are fine with and the other way around.

But to say that you can RP in EVE without insulation on some level.... I don't see how you can...

For example, I would prefer to do away with the NPCs as major players in EVE (as long as the NPC are unresponsive to the players). If I'm playing a tabletop campaign, and none of my character's actions have a visible or lasting effect on the game world: meh.

[Saede Riordan]

But we can effect the game world. By doing what CCP wants us to do with eve and building our own sandcastles. We're trying so hard to exist 'within' the foundation that CCP laid, that we're not looking at what we could build 'on top of it.' Telling our own stories instead of trying to interact with the backdrop.

[Ken]

But we can effect the game world. By doing what CCP wants us to do with eve and building our own sandcastles. We're trying so hard to exist 'within' the foundation that CCP laid, that we're not looking at what we could build 'on top of it.' Telling our own stories instead of trying to interact with the backdrop.

qft

This isn't a tabletop game.

[Louella Dougans]

We're trying so hard to exist 'within' the foundation that CCP laid, that we're not looking at what we could build 'on top of it.'

Maybe you are. Other's aren't. Don't generalise and say everyone's doing it wrong.

[Merdaneth]

But we can effect the game world. By doing what CCP wants us to do with eve and building our own sandcastles. We're trying so hard to exist 'within' the foundation that CCP laid, that we're not looking at what we could build 'on top of it.' Telling our own stories instead of trying to interact with the backdrop.

We cannot affect the story of the NPC game world, but we can affect the story of the other players. I agree you can build a story fine with just that of course, but it doesn't require all the trappings most RPers surround themselves with. In fact because  the trappings are mostly based in the non-dynamic RP, they can make for static and stale RP at some point.



 

[lallara zhuul]

Sandcastles by definition are not permanent.

As soon as you leave them untended they start to disintegrate and after a while nobody has known that they even existed.

That is the promise of EVE nowadays.

[Ken]

We're trying so hard to exist 'within' the foundation that CCP laid, that we're not looking at what we could build 'on top of it.'

Maybe you are. Other's aren't. Don't generalise and say everyone's doing it wrong.

What about the original statement said everyone is doing it wrong?

Sandcastles by definition are not permanent.

As soon as you leave them untended they start to disintegrate and after a while nobody has known that they even existed.

That is the promise of EVE nowadays.

That's always the promise in a sandbox.  You want a feeling of permanence, play a game with a strong sense of character progression and player control over narrative.  Virtually all single-player RPGs and several MMOs have this.