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The language of the Amarr empire is spoken by more people than any other language? Read more in this Chronicle.

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Author Topic: My struggle  (Read 3208 times)

ArtOfLight

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My struggle
« on: 21 Aug 2012, 06:32 »

So, I've recently been a pretty unpleasant person to be around and I know it, so I would sincerely like to offer an apology to anyone that I've been unkind, impatient or offensive toward.

I am the type of player that tends to try and design and play characters that are not carbon copies of the Prime Fiction, nor a shallow representation of a single aspect of a race. (I am not accusing anyone else of being this kind of player, I'm just explaining myself). To that end, I often try to give my characters a lot of depth and personality, background reasons for some of their beliefs and motivations as well as internal conflicts when faced with hard choices and decisions.

Azdan is a product of this mindset. He's intended to a "good" Amarr, as in someone who genuinely believes in the message of the Amarr faith and seeks to enact it in the most benevolent and compassionate way he is able. He has a heart for people, regardless of race, but is extremely proud of his heritage as an Amarr and his place as one of God's chosen people. I've done a lot of in-depth study into the Empire, its history, hierarchy, demography, culture, moral and immoral acts and even the Scriptures and the Amarr faith. (I've practically written an expository book on the Amarr Scriptures and designed a consistent and thorough interpretation and doctrine around them).

Yet I find myself frustrated with the difficulties of playing him. My favorite aspect of the game is Faction Warfare which has proven suicidal to the RP angle and the current state of the Amarr FW is horrendous. There are enough people RPing the callous, inhumane, wicked Amarrians to justify the bile and hatred toward Amarr. I know some have told me to just ignore them, they're just trolls or strawmen, but the fact of the matter is that their RP affects other's RP and subsequently how those people will interact with me and my characters. It's just a fact of RP.

I've been feeling around to try and get an estimate of how many people are willing to try and play a "good" RP corp that's focused on purging the bad elements of the Empire and restoring the religious focus to the Reclaiming and sadly the interest is extremely low. I asked about focus on House politics and upstaging the internal conflict and competition between the Houses, which had more interest but still a very small amount.

I'm in a position where my hands are tied. Trying to play a "good" Amarr immediately puts me in the minority (or so it seems) and because I'm at a minority and a very young character (and player), there is very little I can actually do in space to match my character's RP and convictions. For example, recently a member of Gankbangers decided to declare that they were taking slaves while in the Amarr militia and when they switched to Caldari militia just had them all executed and dumped into space to taunt the Minmatar. This is absolutely repulsive to Azdan and he called them out on it but there's absolutely nothing I can do about it beyond that point because I'm one person, in a Punisher against an entire corp and alliance.

This makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to actually do anything with Azdan apart from sit in channels and on the forums and shake his finger at people while trying to preach a different message. Not only is this not fun, it will eventually be used against him in RP as well. So, I have no idea how to proceed. I didn't actually write this post to rant (though I guess it seems like that's exactly what I'm doing), but simply to share some of my personal struggles and frustration with those that want to listen.

I'm doing my best to be a better person OOC and not complain as often, not constantly seek approval or justification and not change characters so often (because it certainly seems to cause a level of irritation that I'd rather avoid from the people that I'd like to be playing with).
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"A man's courage can be measured by what he does, his wisdom by what he chooses not to do and his character by the sum of both."

Merdaneth

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Re: My struggle
« Reply #1 on: 21 Aug 2012, 07:25 »

This makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to actually do anything with Azdan apart from sit in channels and on the forums and shake his finger at people while trying to preach a different message. Not only is this not fun, it will eventually be used against him in RP as well. So, I have no idea how to proceed. I didn't actually write this post to rant (though I guess it seems like that's exactly what I'm doing), but simply to share some of my personal struggles and frustration with those that want to listen.

The more experience you get, the better you realize that actually 'doing anything' with your character to people who don't want to cooperate with you is near impossible, and if possible, the effort is disproportional to the effect.

Focus your efforts on doing things people want to cooperate with, rather than trying to work against something. Building your RP on the backs of enemies and opponents in EVE is folly.

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Gwen Ikiryo

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Re: My struggle
« Reply #2 on: 21 Aug 2012, 07:43 »

I'd just like to say that I empathize with you on the Faction Warfare front. I've been considering having Gwen join a FW-corp, but whenever I bring it up it's nothing but "don't you realize that's just pointless violence" "you're a fool playing into the governments hands" "nothing ever changes, you'll just be wasting your time" and so on and so fourth. It makes it very hard to justify actually going ahead with it ICly.

Properly on topic, I can certainly understand feeling shoehorned into a role you don't like because of other people on your faction... Though I'd think it applies to everyone to an extent, just the Amarr happen to get it worse because of the slavery aspect.

Forgive me if this is poor advice (it's certainly coming from a background of other MMO's, rather then Eve roleplay) But I find it's easier to just pretend elements that you can't reconcile without completely breaking your character in a way you dislike, well... don't exist. Or at least having a limited perception in regard to them. I can recognize this can come across as your character denying reality - But really, that has to be done to an extent to immerse oneself in an MMO at all, I think.

It might also help to just keep your RP a bit more private and contained. Don't try and confront people in big public settings, that sort of thing. Keep it to people who gel with you pretty well.

I mean, if you can't relax and get away from stress while RPing, what's the point, right?

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Desiderya

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Re: My struggle
« Reply #3 on: 21 Aug 2012, 08:21 »

I'd just like to say that I empathize with you on the Faction Warfare front. I've been considering having Gwen join a FW-corp, but whenever I bring it up it's nothing but "don't you realize that's just pointless violence" "you're a fool playing into the governments hands" "nothing ever changes, you'll just be wasting your time" and so on and so fourth. It makes it very hard to justify actually going ahead with it ICly.
FW can not be won. But in the end, everything you do ingame in EVE is futile or leads to pointless violence, since it is essentially a game focused on conflict. Everything you can produce will be used for destruction, sooner or later. Build Orcas, and people will use them to mine the minerals to build battleships.

It's the same with Azdan's case, it comes down to how you want to perceive it. There are always two elements here: You want to do something in the game you enjoy - sitting in station all the time while roleplaying is very likely not motivating for an extended period of time. Vice versa, doing your stuff ingame purely in an ooc manner while claiming IC to be completely different will lead to discussions, disagreements and by extension not a very fulfilling experience. Balancing it out is the name of the game here.

Azdan, I share the impression that defining your goals in RP on the backs of other people - especially those for who RP is just a way of immersive trolling - is going to lead to a massive amount of frustration. You have to set up the goals you want to do with your character and your corporation in a realistic matter. Of course we'd all love to change the way the world is, but it's not going to happen, especially with small startup corporations. Stick to realistic goals you can achieve, this is going to make your actions much more believable as well as much more satisfying for yourself and your future members.
You will be judged by experiences people have with other 'evil Amarrian slavers', some characters will even have prejudices based on Azdan's race and allegiance alone. Fine. This will always happen. You can play a patriot with a public dislike of Heth and still get called evil fascist.

In essence: Don't put too much stock on how others view your efforts. There are some whose opinions I'd value much more highly than others.
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ArtOfLight

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Re: My struggle
« Reply #4 on: 21 Aug 2012, 08:37 »

Apparently I've been unclear. I'm not concerned with how people view Azdan as a character (it can be frustrating to have your character's individual personality completely overlooked by virtue of their race and allegiance but that's also normal and realistic).

I apologize for being unclear and as I've no intention of ranting further I will simply drop it. Thank you for your patience and attempts to offer advice.
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"A man's courage can be measured by what he does, his wisdom by what he chooses not to do and his character by the sum of both."

Tamiroth

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Re: My struggle
« Reply #5 on: 21 Aug 2012, 08:44 »

Hey, I dueled with an EM member in a newbie Punisher, lost it hilariously and had fun!

Also, there is a nice plot device called "capsuleer dementia" which allows you not only to handwave away everything about other players you don't like, but to happily ignore sizable bits of PF as well. See my IC/OOC statement on everything that TonyG had written, posted as "Doing it right" on IGS. An Achura slaver jettisoning people into space upon the switch to Caldari side is just that, another wacko egger, there is an entire Goonswarm and TEST of them, no real news here. Kill on sight.

But also, you need to always have in mind that this is EVE, and alone you really can't affect anything at all.     
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Rodj Blake

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Re: My struggle
« Reply #6 on: 21 Aug 2012, 08:59 »

If you're RPing your character as an actual multi-faceted person rather than Dick Dastardly then you're OK in my book.
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Silas Vitalia

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Re: My struggle
« Reply #7 on: 21 Aug 2012, 12:02 »

Perhaps you could roll the challenges faced by your character into a genuine test of IC faith? IE: No one said it was going to be easy interacting with a bunch of heathen nonbelievers... keep that stiff upper lip :)

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Khloe

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Re: My struggle
« Reply #8 on: 21 Aug 2012, 13:27 »

Azdan is a product of this mindset. He's intended to a "good" Amarr, as in someone who genuinely believes in the message of the Amarr faith and seeks to enact it in the most benevolent and compassionate way he is able. He has a heart for people, regardless of race, but is extremely proud of his heritage as an Amarr and his place as one of God's chosen people. I've done a lot of in-depth study into the Empire, its history, hierarchy, demography, culture, moral and immoral acts and even the Scriptures and the Amarr faith. (I've practically written an expository book on the Amarr Scriptures and designed a consistent and thorough interpretation and doctrine around them).

Yet I find myself frustrated with the difficulties of playing him. My favorite aspect of the game is Faction Warfare which has proven suicidal to the RP angle and the current state of the Amarr FW is horrendous. There are enough people RPing the callous, inhumane, wicked Amarrians to justify the bile and hatred toward Amarr. I know some have told me to just ignore them, they're just trolls or strawmen, but the fact of the matter is that their RP affects other's RP and subsequently how those people will interact with me and my characters. It's just a fact of RP.

I've been feeling around to try and get an estimate of how many people are willing to try and play a "good" RP corp that's focused on purging the bad elements of the Empire and restoring the religious focus to the Reclaiming and sadly the interest is extremely low. I asked about focus on House politics and upstaging the internal conflict and competition between the Houses, which had more interest but still a very small amount.

I'm in a position where my hands are tied. Trying to play a "good" Amarr immediately puts me in the minority (or so it seems) and because I'm at a minority and a very young character (and player), there is very little I can actually do in space to match my character's RP and convictions. For example, recently a member of Gankbangers decided to declare that they were taking slaves while in the Amarr militia and when they switched to Caldari militia just had them all executed and dumped into space to taunt the Minmatar. This is absolutely repulsive to Azdan and he called them out on it but there's absolutely nothing I can do about it beyond that point because I'm one person, in a Punisher against an entire corp and alliance.

This makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to actually do anything with Azdan apart from sit in channels and on the forums and shake his finger at people while trying to preach a different message. Not only is this not fun, it will eventually be used against him in RP as well. So, I have no idea how to proceed. I didn't actually write this post to rant (though I guess it seems like that's exactly what I'm doing), but simply to share some of my personal struggles and frustration with those that want to listen.

Your character's experience reminds me of Tiberious before he joined the Bor- Nation, playing a moderate Amarrian with a strong religious background, trying to enact change in the Empire and bring enlightenment to the morally bankrupt. As you can see, it didn't go so well, but I suppose my question to you (as a player) is whether you expect to see tangible results from your character's peers. The example you provided could be a (de)motivational force for your character's cause, either to show that it needs more people like you in the world or that the universe isn't worth saving. This is literally a test of faith for you, not only as a character but a player.

One of the real difficulties you're going to face is translating your character's values/ambitions to make an impact in the universe of New Eden. As a character who values his culture but doesn't necessarily support the Reclaiming, I could see how such an individual could enlist in the War for the purpose of defending against incursions into their territory and not invading Minmatar systems. I'm sure you'd have quite the challenge in trying to convince your fellow Crusaders to do the same, and who knows, you might find some sympathetic ears for your cause.

What are your character's goals? How does sitting in channels/forums shaking his finger accomplish anything? Does he realize the futility of said behavior and perhaps try something different?
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Natalcya Katla

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Re: My struggle
« Reply #9 on: 21 Aug 2012, 20:29 »

Off topic, I know - but was the title of this thread a conscious reference, or completely unintentional?
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ArtOfLight

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Re: My struggle
« Reply #10 on: 21 Aug 2012, 20:32 »

Completely unintentional.

I'm not the sort of person to make that kind of reference without a particularly good reason to.

Also, thanks again to everyone whom chipped in to offer advice/encouragement. I'm sorry I needed it but thanks for being understanding.
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Graelyn

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Re: My struggle
« Reply #11 on: 21 Aug 2012, 22:59 »

Used to be, everyone tried to play the 'good' Amarrian.

The consensus at the time was WTFyerdoinitWRONG
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Makkal

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Re: My struggle
« Reply #12 on: 21 Aug 2012, 23:56 »

What is a 'good' Amarrian?
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Rodj Blake

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Re: My struggle
« Reply #13 on: 22 Aug 2012, 03:12 »

Used to be, everyone tried to play the 'good' Amarrian.

The consensus at the time was WTFyerdoinitWRONG

I recall PIE being labelled as a load of wishy-washy liberal do-gooders.
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Matariki Rain

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Re: My struggle
« Reply #14 on: 22 Aug 2012, 03:51 »

What is a 'good' Amarrian?

1. An Amarrian played well. Often something typical and easily consistent with Amarrian culture, although anything solidly plausible could count.

2. An Amarrian who seeks to do good by Amarrian cultural standards.

3. An Amarrian who seeks to do good by other standards, possibly involving working to change or subvert Amarrian cultural standards on sticking-point issues such as slavery.

These can be in conflict, leading to some confusion.
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