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[orange]

So I guess what I'm trying to claim is that the recent galaxy-spanning events can be and have been accommodated in RP, and it's not at all impossible to view them from IC perspective.

OTEC hits LDIS hard; our in-game/in-character goals are aligned with the production of T2 Modules.  It is what we do.  We can't ignore it as players or characters.  "A dominant, independent, capsuleer empire is hitting LDIS's bottom-line and there is little to nothing we can do about it!" I could make an IGS post about it, discuss how hard hitting OTEC is on small industry.

We also may want to make the story of how independent capsuleers are impacting the "champions of factions" relationship public.

[Lyn Farel]

I honestly do not care much if I do not see any consequences from our actions ingame. What I care is to have RP around them. The outcome is only a small fraction of the pleasure one can have out of it. Of course though, it can become annoying to a certain point when for example nothing happens in the FW and half of the people start to think that this war is obviously useless/meaningless and get out of it. But it can still remain RP and offers other RP alternative views, and it is mostly a question of imagination and what we can do with what we have.

Then yes, that tends to lead to more "world-building RP" or "RP created bubbles" detached from the ingame, but that does not mean that the ingame RP has disappeared. It is just that a lot of people lack a little of imagination, and I will repeat myself again, but characters/corps staying in their private corners do not help at all since basically there are no ingame interactions anymore between political entities, which means between RP corps and not only RP characters.

Edit : seriously, when I remember Aria's thread about provoking more wars, what the hell are doing all the RP corps ? They never seem to politically interact with each other, or at least not in the way of conflict.

[Rodj Blake]

As Merdaneth suggested in his excellent IGS thread the amount of kit given by the Shakorites to the Goons would have put a strain on their economy.

And yet will CCP post any news reports about economic hardship in the Republic?    I doubt it very much.

Perhaps more people would RP around the big events if CCP did likewise.

[Serendipitous Echo]

Edit : seriously, when I remember Aria's thread about provoking more wars, what the hell are doing all the RP corps ? They never seem to politically interact with each other, or at least not in the way of conflict.

Not everyone plays EVE for the conflict. Some play for interactions with other players, others to build something of lasting worth. Still others enjoy the setting alone, and are happy to observe from afar or explore new horizons within it on their own.

This goes for every aspect of EVE, RP included.

[Jev North]

As Merdaneth suggested in his excellent IGS thread the amount of kit given by the Shakorites to the Goons would have put a strain on their economy.

And yet will CCP post any news reports about economic hardship in the Republic?    I doubt it very much.

In similar vein, why were there no news posts about the miraculous generation ex nihilo of advanced moon materials, back in early YC 111? It would've been cluster-shaking news.

[Malcolm Khross]

Really it comes down to us, as players, to keep the community going and make the events that happen a central part of our experience and RP. I admit that a lot of the time, I'm simply oblivious to some things until somebody brings it up, and I am thankful when someone takes the time to point out how something will affect New Eden.

I try to do the same when I can. I think that if we keep working at it, the RP community will hold everything up as long as we remember to keep everything IC and still enjoy one another OOC.

[Lyn Farel]

Edit : seriously, when I remember Aria's thread about provoking more wars, what the hell are doing all the RP corps ? They never seem to politically interact with each other, or at least not in the way of conflict.

Not everyone plays EVE for the conflict. Some play for interactions with other players, others to build something of lasting worth. Still others enjoy the setting alone, and are happy to observe from afar or explore new horizons within it on their own.

This goes for every aspect of EVE, RP included.

Almost everything in Eve is conflict. I was not specifically targeting mere pew pew and the likes. It can be political, ideological, industrial, etc. Where there is profit to be made, there is conflict. Where there is PR to be made, there is profit. Unless you are telling me that everyone now plays for IC cuddles and congratulations ?

The main source of the problem for me still remains that entities almost do not seem to talk to each other. Or at least not very publicly, because hell if there is conflict, I hear about none. Of course, I also understand that there is the fact that everything has already been said, done, argued, nothing new, which does not help at all to create new interactions.

[Milo Caman]

Edit : seriously, when I remember Aria's thread about provoking more wars, what the hell are doing all the RP corps ? They never seem to politically interact with each other, or at least not in the way of conflict.

I have taken ANSH out of the way to do this. However, we've been hesitant to hop up on the IGS, as in our experience, everything rapidly degenerates into shitposting from all sides. Stuff™ will be coming soon™ to an IC forum near you.

Louella pretty much hit the nail on the head I think. As CCP have taken a 'fuck the world' attitude towards reporting on player activities, or maintaining their 'everything players does has an impact' thing they used to have, it kind-of comes down to the players to take up the responsibility and carry on if we want the whole dynamic world thing to work.

Initiatives like ANN, EN24 (Which is now just an aggregate site, shame, even though Riverini was a talentless hack), Gutter Press, Tech 4 News and the various small news network posts popping up are key to maintaining the image that EVE is a dynamic universe, and that player activities do have an effect. Granted, we can't say Tibus Heth has reacted badly to the complete indifference of the Caldari militia to piracy in their ranks, or that Roden has introduced more reforms, but we can imply it and skirt around direct 'godmodding' of NPC characters with clever and careful writing.

I've been encouraging people to get involved with things like this for ages, but interest always seems to peak very quickly and then diminish into nothing. Players need to be less apathetic about getting their activities out there so the multitude of news groups can actually report on them (and perhaps you guys should write some stuff too)

[Malcolm Khross]

So far, I've been doing my best to get WHG involved in things and I can vouch for ANSH giving us conflict both in space and in RP conversations. Also, the news reports are one of the best parts of the gaming community.

[Halete]

MERD. Wanted to thank you for addressing the elephant in the room with the IGS thread.

Up with this kind of thing and so on. We need less people in comfortable private bubbles and more people pewing in space, or waging price-wars, or what have you.

[Ember Vykos]

If it comes up Simca adresses Goons and other stuff ICly. I don't RP much in the Summit anyway so I miss a lot, but part of that is because its the same old stuff. Just idly chatting is fun sometimes, and even the debates aren't all bad. That said the same topics over and over do get a bit boring.

Personally I like a mix of both private RP bubble stuff(inside the corp RP, SimKat, etc) as well as stuff in space like what we do in Syndicate or wars. Public chatter is a part of it too, but as I said it does get old after a while, especially with people seeking attention and obvious alts just made to be a pain in the ass.

Speaking of wars FCO would make a good candidate. ............/o/

[Lyn Farel]

Well if you want to know why I participated in the IGS, then its only because it was mostly the only place where one can have political debates and stuff in these lines, and/or ethical discussions. Yes, seriously, its the only place, more or less, and have always been. The Summit has some of them but most of the time its cuddle time. The NEA was promising but almost nobody seemed interested so it collapsed. An ICly in any channel, its rare enough to be neglectible, especially since you do not always interact with very different mindsets (except if you are willing to go in places where your character would never go).

At the moment the only alternative I see for this is to have one's own political entity, and get into :diplomatic discussions: with other entities. So either you become a CEO, or at least a diplomat, or you are screwed. And of course, your little entity has to have at least a little political weight or you will be laughed at.

Now though, for personnal reasons, I do not take part in the IGS anymore.

[Aria Jenneth]

Before this gets any more demotivational, let me present an alternate view.

The base setting not being subject to dynamic change is demoralizing for some. The base setting being subject to dynamic change is unmanageable unless it is made the core of the Eve experience, which it is not and is never likely to be.

While I would very much like to see tax rates in trade hubs adjusted to reflect fortunes in FW, or perhaps an expansion of the war and perhaps some new twists in the storyline, I am not holding my breath. IC, the faction war represents a protracted low-level conflict whose purposes include avoiding the chaos that would result from a high-level one. This can go on happily for decades, and likely will (the first Caldari/Gallente war lasted for 80 years or so).

The real RP fun to be had under the circumstances isn't in the epic world-politics-changing game unless you want to sign up with one of the big alliances and play the (largely un-immersive, but frequently epic) game of empires. Very few RP organizations are involved in that.

For my money, the real fun to be had is on the scale of personal stories, personal and private successes, failures, hopes, dreams, relationships, and disasters. Conflicts are good for that because they stir the pot, not because they get all epic and world-changing.

As for the IC/OOC divide, I do believe that whatever happens in game, happens IC. Color me callous, but I don't feel that the little absurdities of game mechanics, etc., create a separate reality that only exists to provide funding to the REAL world.

What'cha done, ya done, and if you find it immersion-breaking that the NPCs don't retreat in the face of impending death, that just points up the need to consider reasons why they can't. If you can't buy CCP's world as packaged, just play out the conditions in your head or discuss and write up quasi-canon until we have some kind of believable scenario.

Lord knows we need more world in this world. CCP won't be building it for us, so it's up to us. (Also, they have a habit of adopting bits of quasi-canon that they like as the real thing.)

Keep your sights on the level of Star Trek instead of Star Wars-- that is, worry less about defeating the Empire and more about defeating the captain of that Klingon battlecruiser over there-- and I think the setting works pretty well. If your personal victories and losses eventually lead to major political realignments, so much the better.

Let your character worry about high-level politics and the eventual glorious victory of all that is good and true if that is appropriate to the character. Your concern is better focused on developing the place of that character in the world.

... If you want to be happy with the game, that is.

[Jev North]

Yes. EVE's PF is an alternatively rage- and statism-inducing mess, with one redeeming vice that also happens to be a virtue - it barely touches upon the actual stuff you do in the game.

There's a niche with your name on it somewhere, and you (general ypu) were unlikely to become the Emperor of Space anyway. I found my center when I stopped worrying about what I should do, and started doing things I liked instead.

[Lyn Farel]

Aria told it 10 times better than I could have been able to.