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[Yoshito Sanders]

Might still be someone left in CCP who honestly gives a damn.

Their names are Abraxas, Gnauton, Headfirst, and Delegate Zero, though DZ is in web development so he (as far as I know) is less able to get involved.

[Myyona]

I wish you all the best in this endeavor, and would probably be back in EVE in a heart beat if things changed, but I have lost the faith.

[Mathra Hiede]

Might still be someone left in CCP who honestly gives a damn.

Their names are Abraxas, Gnauton, Headfirst, and Delegate Zero, though DZ is in web development so he (as far as I know) is less able to get involved.

And out of the entire CCP list of devs I sure as shit hope there is actually more than just this or we are well screwed.

Posting on the thread now.

[Ulphus]

The official Storyline team is Abraxas and Gnauton.

That's it.

CCP Sisiyphus also seemed very keen on the story stuff making sense, and interested in helping, but is working on a different project at the moment.

[Yoshito Sanders]

Their names are Abraxas, Gnauton, Headfirst, and Delegate Zero, though DZ is in web development so he (as far as I know) is less able to get involved.

And out of the entire CCP list of devs I sure as shit hope there is actually more than just this or we are well screwed.

Posting on the thread now.
[/quote]

You act like there used to be a bunch more storyline-involved devs.

Though to be fair, I did forget to mention Greyscale, who has been around forever and has written a couple of chrons.

[Nmaro Makari]

You know what bugs me? The fact that Devs and GM's deem "Rate the Avatar Above You" as worth their time, but cant write a singe f***ing scentence for any kind of serious thread.

F***ing CCP sometimes

[Ursa Dropsus]

You act like there used to be a bunch more storyline-involved devs.

Though to be fair, I did forget to mention Greyscale, who has been around forever and has written a couple of chrons.

I debated whether or not to reply here, but I feel I have to correct this idea that there wasn't a bunch of storyline folk lost. There really were a lot more people involved in storyline before the layoffs and I'd, for one, quantify it as "a bunch more".

HOWEVER...

I don't think quantifying this in terms of staff numbers is ultimately even the right way to look at it. Why? Because there were individuals involved in storyline development whose work deserved to be "counted twice" (or more), so to speak. To use just one example out of many I could pick, CCP Headfirst no longer working on storyline meant more than just "one less person". Storyline, and the work people do on it, isn't quantifiable to me in the same way that a programmer or an artist's work might be. If you lost, for example, 1 storyline dev out of a team of 3, it means more than just a 33.33% drop in storyline input. This is perhaps different to losing 1 programmer out of a team of 3, which might result in 33.33% less code being produced. I don't think you can quantify storyline work like that (and I'd point out that even if you do, the numbers-based argument that "not many were lost" doesn't hold up anyway).

Perhaps another way to illustrate this same basic concept would be to point out that Greyscale does a lot more for storyline than "write a couple of chronicles". He's been a hugely important influence over the storyline at times, and having a story-oriented game designer has had an impact I don't think anyone can really quantify, myself included (I'm no game designer, so I can only guess too). I will say with confidence though that without him, game design wouldn't quite have the "soul" it currently does, or has had over the last half-decade. Losing him would mean more than just losing a quantifiable amount of chronicles/news articles/whatever. Same goes for any storyline dev. 

I don't say any of this to support the premise that things are now dire on the storyline front. I honestly don't accept that premise, and I've said elsewhere why not. Perhaps you can even see, more clearly now, why I don't agree with it (i.e because the guys still working on storyline are more than just "three developers" in purely quantitative terms). Others are free to disagree of course, and I'm not here to get into that debate (in fact I'm trying to carefully avoid it, if that's even possible now I've "weighed in").

I say all of this because, well, to presume that a whole lot of people (who were actively and passionately involved in the storyline and making significant contributions) weren't lost does them and their work a disservice. I don't think you meant it that way of course, Yoshito, but I do think it's worth saying, all the same, that a lot of good people who worked on the storyline went missing, and yet despite all that, arguing numbers doesn't even really reflect the reality of the situation, in either the terms of who was lost, or who remains.

I hope that makes sense...and is at least a little encouraging, if somewhat discouraging in appearance.

I was going to post some thoughts on how to perhaps better lobby CCP for storyline/roleplay support. Maybe I'll throw that in later, but for now I just wanted to speak my mind on that.

tl;dr - Good people were lost, they counted for more than just mere numbers might suggest, and yet for that same reason, the numbers of those remaining shouldn't be the sole or even primary hallmark by which you judge the state of storyline development.

[Jev North]

This is perhaps different to losing 1 programmer out of a team of 3, which might result in 33.33% less code being produced.

It doesn't even work like that for programmers, or any kind of work which involves anything but the most menial kind of labor. People divide labor and specialize, and any kind of functional team will be more efficient than the sum of its parts. The short-term loss will be far greater than 33%, unless the team was spectacularly dysfunctional -- in which case removing someone might actually improve matters.

On the other hand, as you say, people can adapt to new situations and grow into new roles. So, not all hope is lost.

[Andreus Ixiris]

We got a CCP response!

Admittedly it's CCP Phantom, who has nothing to do with the storyline, but... progress!

[Myyona]

And now CCP Delegate Zero, you lucky you.

Still, I do not think they still quite grasp the difference between having a backstory and having and interactive backstory. Of course, currently just improving on the former would be good.

Oh, and Abel Jarek.

[Nmaro Makari]

Yes, a dev response is nice.

But I think we need to take a dose of realism and remember that CCP dont always walk the walk. In fact, in terms of the storyline, its something they're less than satisfactory, if not pretty bad at.

Until something actually happens, in game, that can actually affect us, that response is just scrawl and the new chron is just a crumb from the kings table.

[Casiella]

The more things change...

I see these sorts of things as cyclical. They need to focus on the core game for a while, and that means this stuff gets ignored. Then later, they'll be like "well holy crap what about the storyline?" and do some more stuff.

After that, the folks who don't care about lore will be "WHAT ABOUT MY QUIEROS" and they'll forget us again.

On the other hand, I would say that even though the storyline may not continue its progression right now, other immersive things (FW, mercenary marketplace, etc.) also matter and they're getting attention.

[Gessenier]

You know, as someone that still remembers those days when the storyline used to move like treacle I'd say things at the moment are about par for the course. I mean, hell, at least there isn't a Federal election that you have to wait three years to find out who is the new President. A recession in the State that just happens out of nowhere - with no elaboration as to why there is one - only to be resolved as, "Oh hey, surprise here's Tibus Heth." Or the Empire not having an Emperor for over two years after Doriam only for it make sense retrospectively once it's realized that Karsoth was a blood raider.

I guess what I'm saying is that CCP has always been terrible at moving their storyline preferring, if and when they choose to move it, the use of some great apocalyptic disaster or catastrophe that comes out of nowhere where everyone is meant to go, "Oh God why, the humanity?! The children, will no one ever save the children?" Honestly, I just prefer the work the storyline staff at CCP are doing with evelopedia or interactive events and trying to make Eve more immersive and congruent with their fiction than having to wait to watch what next biblical cataclysm is about to unfold in New Eden.

[Lyn Farel]

I do not remember the world being full of cataclysms before TEA. Unless we consider that a jovian ambassador blowing himself up by testing a teleportation device to impress New Eden is a cataclysm...

The only cataclysm that I really liked was the Seylin one.

[Gessenier]

I do not remember the world being full of cataclysms before TEA. Unless we consider that a jovian ambassador blowing himself up by testing a teleportation device to impress New Eden is a cataclysm...

Well, that's what I mean. Ever since TEA it seems CCP's concept of "storyline progression" is to have some sort of massive event or paradigm shift in New Eden that seems to come out of nowhere and to which characters have almost no ability to participate in or, even worse, appear were ignorant of the whole time prior. It seems at times that CCP doesn't pay attention to the storyline for a period then all of a sudden when they feel they need to it all just occurs in this torrent of information and events.

I just had a look at Mechwarrior Online and I think I was struck by the contrast. Take the FedCom civil war in Battletech for example. Over the course of it you could read about how Katrina Steiner-Davion was slowly usurping power from her brother Victor while he was away campaigning against the Clans. Installing puppet governers, giving favours to Lyran military units, calling herself Katherine like her mother, and generally abusing her powers as Regent. So when the civil war starts players can at least say, "Oh that makes sense, she was trying to do this for a long time." 

The difference here is that with CCP currently it seems like players never get to see the storms brewing on the horizons, only get to react to them once they do hit. There's precious few information provided to allow players and characters to make informed decisions as to what might be happening in New Eden. It might just be me but it gets a bit annoying supposedly playing this capsuleer and infomorph that thanks to CONCORD probably has access to news and information from all over the cluster only for CCP to write the storyline as, "Oh man you guys had no idea that this massive event was about to happen did you? Silly rabbits, hur hur hur."

On the topic of news however, why can't CCP use that more in storyline progression? Not just the Scope, but why not have Amarr Certified News, Echelon Entertainment, NOH, Republic Outlets and other Federal Outlets publish articles? See how other nations and their broadcasters view events in New Eden and get a look into the outlook (or perhaps how they want to manage information and perceptions) of their people.