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Author Topic: A cultural breakdown chart I made  (Read 5122 times)

Seriphyn

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A cultural breakdown chart I made
« on: 02 Apr 2012, 10:47 »

Clickie

VERY simplified of course. Please don't assume the Amarr one is some attack on Amarr RP or anything; not trying to play a game of one-up with saying "diversity is awesome" or anything! It's just that any differences between Kador and Kor-Azor will be trivial when compared to Jin-Mei versus Luminaire (hence the use of the word 'relative')

One thing I pointed out is the disconnection (at least how I see it) between the militaristic, hypercapitalist Caldari who gambles on combat sports and has "aggressive tendencies", and the Herko fiction of Caldari being all sand garden contemplative discretionary and all that. Would be curious to see what Caldari RPers make of it.

And what others make of the chart overall. Anyone interested in making their own? If I wasn't a lazy bugger, I'd probably endeavour to make a more elaborate one (hinthint)

EDIT - Actually...thinking branches may be more appropiate...the cultures can be traced back to one homeworld in Minmatar for example...but more than one homeworld in Fed etc.
« Last Edit: 02 Apr 2012, 14:30 by Seriphyn »
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Ghost Hunter

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Re: A cultural breakdown chart I made
« Reply #1 on: 02 Apr 2012, 11:04 »

I would have the Amarr's religious culture form the baseline, and then have it splinter at the top into the different Royal Houses. Their society is governed by feudalism, underneath the Emperor family.
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lallara zhuul

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Re: A cultural breakdown chart I made
« Reply #2 on: 02 Apr 2012, 12:54 »

You left out the complete submission of the Minnies towards the Elders.

Also, their culture has aspects introduced to it by the Federation during the building process of the Republic.
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Lyn Farel

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Re: A cultural breakdown chart I made
« Reply #3 on: 02 Apr 2012, 13:00 »

That looks like what I was working on. I should try to finish it...
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Jev North

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Re: A cultural breakdown chart I made
« Reply #4 on: 02 Apr 2012, 13:09 »

Graphs like that are nice, but ultimately only highlight a small aspect of a (presumably) large, pluriform, and deep culture. For example, while you could say that the Caldari culture has a deep split between its economic policy and spiritual background, that's very contestable, and even if true I'd not say that it was the defining cultural aspect of Caldari society.

If you'll allow me a little bit of leeway in what underlying idea the various graphical forms represent, I'll try to demonstrate both the utility and uselessness of graphs like this by applying them matrix-style to every Empire in New Eden. From left to right, I'll interpret the shapes as trying to express social stratification, a central conflict, some kind of unification, and social division.

Applying those to every empire, I get, very roughly:

Minmatar
Stratification: elder versus younger.
Conflict: state-building and peace versus a war of liberation and vengeance.
Unification: shared blood and tribal history.
Division: along the lines of the Tribes.

Amarr
Stratification: Feudal structure: Imperial families, Holders, commoners, slaves.
Conflict: Religion versus practicality, perhaps; or, lately more to the fore, faith versus corruption.
Unification: Monotheism
Division: the various Imperial Families.

Caldari
Stratification: mainly socioeconomic.
Conflict: hypercapitalism versus spirituality; or maybe meritocracy versus plutocracy; or taken even more broadly, like profit versus prosperity.
Unification: the meritocracy.
Division: the various megacorporations.

Gallente
Stratification: socioeconomical stratification, again.
Conflict: Liberalism versus empty hedonism; or maybe Quafe-and-J-Pop monoculture versus pluralism; or warlike tendencies versus true appreciation for freedom.
Unification: Political union; or hey, it's that monoculture thing again.
Division: Ethnical and federation member lines.

Not exactly an academically rigorous disproof of the utility of charts like these, but I hope to've shown that since any of them could be said to apply equally to all of the empires, and not doing so might actually leave out important aspects of that empire's culture, they're more useful as starting points for discussion rather than descriptions of a or the deep truth behind a culture.
« Last Edit: 02 Apr 2012, 13:13 by Jev North »
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Seriphyn

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Re: A cultural breakdown chart I made
« Reply #5 on: 02 Apr 2012, 13:40 »

Looks like a good approach, Jev...I agree with Caldari conflict bit about spirituality versus hypercapitalism...basically Patriots versus Practicals in that regard? Also, yes, Fed has that mixed message in the PF of either being a monolithic entity, or a political allliance of worlds. The division I think is less ethnic-based and more sociocultural instead (though ethnicity would play a part in it)

There is a problem with EVE PF though...

"How do you enforce one planetary culture over multiple billion+ planets?" (esp. Caldari and Minmatar)

With the Federation, this is handwaveable. There is no one planetary culture being enforced. The Gallente stuff is just what you see on interstellar networks. Federation is an entity that connects separate, independent planets with their own cultures and politics (as long as its democratic) as a security and regulatory force.

The State and Republic have a bit of an issue. You fly around State and Republic space and notice all the lit-up worlds and think "How the hell can all these be enforced to be Caldari or Minmatar?". Technology? Heavy government footprint?

Instead, I think it would make more sense if the Minmatar Republic just had Matar with billions+. The rest of the worlds are just colonies of, at most, a few million. Sort of like other IPs where you have "Earth and colonies". The State, meanwhile, either just has New Caldari Prime which is governed by the CEP, and then small colonies governed by megacorporations. Or, to avoid the trouble of being bombarded by fascists again, have eight different worlds that are fully-developed, each owned by a megacorp, and the rest are colonies.

The answer could be that these entities enforce the cultures from the top-down, ie. authoritarianism. This would fit in with the fact the Federation is the only 'liberal' state in the classical sense of the term.
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Seriphyn

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Re: A cultural breakdown chart I made
« Reply #6 on: 02 Apr 2012, 14:32 »

An enlightening but flame-filled discussion in the OOC channel related to the above has made me go against the CCP's lack of material and reconsider...will come around again with a different set of thoughts...
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Matariki Rain

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Re: A cultural breakdown chart I made
« Reply #7 on: 02 Apr 2012, 14:34 »

A thought about the State and the Republic: they were--at least until recently, in the case of the State--only collections of their component megacorps or tribes. I'd look to those units for the management of culture, and quite possibly of planets or large parts of planets, rather than to the over-arching polity.
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Bastian Valoron

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Re: A cultural breakdown chart I made
« Reply #8 on: 02 Apr 2012, 17:04 »

In my view, there is a disconnect between the local customs and the Federal level and I can't really see it as the top level of a hierarchy of refinement starting from the member cultures. There is a certain bag of common interests shared by all the major powers behind the central government but as long as this bottom line is met, I don't see the administration having much interest in the local affairs. While there is a chronicle about Fed revisionism on the university level, I would assume that this kind of thing is most common in Essence and border regions, and less frequent where there is more distance to the Luminaire.

Maybe you could say that another layer of stratification for the Federation, besides socio-economic status, comes from the regional differences - the amount of support/influence by the central government seems to depend on your the distance to the Luminaire, or to the active war zone.
 
To me, the interplay between the various interest groups, and manipulation of the public opinion are the central themes in the Federal culture, and I'd draw the graph for the Federation as follows:



In the same spirit, I'd venture to say that the major conflict in the Federation is between centralism and minarchism, or safety and control vs. freedom and locality, and while the hedonism may be a frequent there in the PF, to me it appears merely as a tool and consequence of the public opinion control, not as a serious issue itself.

When it comes to Caldari, I think how Herko painted it makes a lot of sense. On the background, you have the virtues of loyalty, knowing your place and doing what you are expected to do as well as you can, respecting your superiors and ancestors, but instead of japanese style family ties you actually identify yourself with the megacorp structure. Their way of the winds seems to be compatible with the idea that you go where the natural forces take you and do what you must and generally glorify the self-sacrificing collectivist mentality.

Following this line of thinking, there would probably be a divide between your private and public life. Outside working hours you would gamble, seek prostitutes and enjoy all the cheap pleasures of Jita with your colleagues and other associates while at work you would be professional, competitive and keep up the facade, as you would be expected to.

The major conflict in this sense would be between what the society and the whole history expects from you, and what you might want on the individual level. From this perspective, one could draw the graph as follows:


« Last Edit: 03 Apr 2012, 17:20 by Bastian Valoron »
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Publius Valerius

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Re: A cultural breakdown chart I made
« Reply #9 on: 02 Apr 2012, 18:52 »

Im not so in Makro-Makro theorys.... so I have not so much Infos about that topic.... but I would work for the Fed with Social Milieus. See here or here.

So for the Fed some bubbles which overlap some times like this: here.
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Publius Valerius

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Re: A cultural breakdown chart I made
« Reply #10 on: 02 Apr 2012, 19:05 »

About the pyramide... I had something for the Kingdom in mind.... maybe I try the make a chart...
so it is better to understand.
« Last Edit: 03 Apr 2012, 18:51 by Publius Valerius »
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Vikarion

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Re: A cultural breakdown chart I made
« Reply #11 on: 03 Apr 2012, 03:33 »

When it comes to Caldari, I think how Herko painted it makes a lot of sense. On the background, you have the virtues of loyalty, knowing your place and doing what you are expected to do as well as you can, respecting your superiors and ancestors, but instead of japanese style family ties you actually identify yourself with the megacorp structure. Their way of the winds seems to be compatible with the idea that you go where the natural forces take you and do what you must and generally glorify the self-sacrificing collectivist mentality.

In my opinion, we need to avoid getting too attached to the idea that the Caldari are self-sacrificing for the sake of collectivist ideals. Remember, the Caldari are hyper-capitalistic, meritocratic, and intensely competitive, traits which do not lend themselves to altruistic interpretations. Rather, the Caldari understand that grouping together usually increases your chances of personally doing better. Therefore, you and your colleagues compete so that you, together, can get to the top of your Division. Divisions compete within a Megacorp to advance their own vision for the company. Megacorps compete with each other for market share and to implement their vision for the future of the State. And the State competes with every other Empire.

The Caldari, as a people, built their civilization on a planet much harsher than Earth. This was a planet that killed the weak, and promoted the stronger leader, the stronger tribe, and the stronger nation. This explains much about the modern Caldari civilization: the strong social mores (social cohesion is important in dangerous conditions), the intensely competitive nature (resources are at a premium), the tendency to group (groups offer better chances for survival and specialization of labor), and xenophobia (the fewer resources there are, the more competition from outsiders to possess your land, livestock, etc).

Because of the national archetypes we have around us, it's easy to classify fictional civilizations as analogues of our own, but this is not the case. The Caldari are not, despite the names, either Asian or Finnish, and the Federation isn't the U.S. or E.U. So we need to be careful when reading a certain bit of PF to be sure to compare it with other PF. Defining the Caldari as a strictly self-sacrificial, collectivist culture ignores the PF defining them as often very individualistic, competitive, focused characters. And portraying them as strictly greedy and selfish in nature ignores the PF that shows them often having a good deal of patriotism and loyalty. And these are both, of course, gross generalities.

I personally see the Caldari approach best defined as "units of competition". You, personally, want to do well, better than everyone else around you, in fact. But outside of that immediate group, you also want your entire group to do better than other groups of similar nature (family, coworker groups, etc). And you want that group (company, Megacorp, The State, etc) to do better than others.

Because of this desire for competitive superiority, social attitudes and ideas which are (or appear to be) disruptive or even just non-useful tend to be considered a Bad Thing. This explains why gender equality seems to be the norm in the State, but homosexuality is not accepted - gender equality is an efficient use of labor, but homosexuals do not tend to reproduce, an important facet of survival for groups on a cold, hostile planet with high infant mortality. This can explain other things, as well: why do so many Caldari have tattoos in fiction pictures? Simple: tattoos are often a mark of identification with a certain group, and can serve to inform others of your loyalty to your common cause.

Of course, one should be wary of something that can explain everything. This is, of course, just my view.
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Gottii

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Re: A cultural breakdown chart I made
« Reply #12 on: 03 Apr 2012, 06:50 »

Great post Vik.
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Publius Valerius

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Re: A cultural breakdown chart I made
« Reply #13 on: 03 Apr 2012, 09:10 »

Great post Vik.

Yeep... I like the argumention line.


Because of the national archetypes we have around us, it's easy to classify fictional civilizations as analogues of our own, but this is not the case. The Caldari are not, despite the names, either Asian or Finnish, and the Federation isn't the U.S. or E.U. So we need to be careful when reading a certain bit of PF to be sure to compare it with other PF.


You right... my post wasnt in the direction of.... Fed=E.U. ...it is more the system Social Milieu .... with its category system; you have a good tool to analyse pluralistic societys, like the Fed. Better than just a wall of text. With a good tool (analysing-system, you can break down every problem and question. (And more important I dont belive in Makro-Makro analying... but it just me :P)


About:
"Rather, the Caldari understand that grouping together usually increases your chances of personally doing better."

I like this line.... it is a nice Micro-Micro law... I rewrite it:
"Individuals understand that grouping together usually increases their chances of personally doing better."
So it can be said than like you:

"Therefore, you and your colleagues compete so that you, together, can get to the top of your Division. Divisions compete within a Megacorp to advance their own vision for the company. Megacorps compete with each other for market share and to implement their vision for the future of the State. And the State competes with every other Empire."

And even more, they are from a frozen hell hole so:

The Caldari, as a people, built their civilization on a planet much harsher than Earth; that makes the "grouping together" more meaning full and more combative etc.....

But like I said Sociology isnt my field.  :(





« Last Edit: 03 Apr 2012, 18:53 by Publius Valerius »
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Bastian Valoron

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Re: A cultural breakdown chart I made
« Reply #14 on: 03 Apr 2012, 17:21 »

...
So how do you answer Seriphyn's question then?
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