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[Silas Vitalia]

Spinoff from the lovely MTAC thread.

I haven't done any missions for the 24th but do they give any impression of a religious war of conquest?

We haven't really been presented with much imagery or fiction (that I'm aware of) that goes into detail on how an Imperial Crusade would be conducted.

The Amarrians are known for ridiculous levels of pomp and ceremony and religious iconography. I have to imagine these would directly translate into how they conduct battles, ground assaults, and 'conversions'.

So say, instead of dropping propaganda leaflets,  maybe they drop portable holo-projectors with a 'message from the Empress' saying how fortunate they are to be about to be converted, etc.

Maybe instead of that they would project across the sky for a city about to be invaded a holy vision of what awaits them if they accept the new religion, etc. All propaganda BS of course but "a better life awaits you!" kind of a thing.

Not to mention of course how the ground troops would operate.  Prayers before battle, I'm sure there are religious representatives of the clergy for each unit, maybe they also fight alongside, who knows?

But we have an extremely religious society in which religiosity, etc is a central fabric of the entire society. I have to imagine that this would be reflected in every aspect of how they conduct war.

The thing is to imagine interesting possibilities for these sorts of ideas that don't sound entirely cheesy. 

[Esna Pitoojee]

There's some light text fluff as agents describe the enemies as vicious heathens, etc... (and then ironically sometimes send you to do the literally exact same thing they were calling the Minmatar vicious over).

Also, the mails you get when you are promoted say "For your efforts in bringing God's word to the heathens you have been promoted to the following rank: [Insert rank here]"

That's about it, though. When you get down to it, all the missions are fairly reasonable military stuff - hit this supply convoy, off that commander, raze a base of operations - and if you don't read the mission descriptions entirely, the missions are basically the same across all four factions.

[Silas Vitalia]

How would you see them conducting this sort of campaign?

[Esna Pitoojee]

So, first off - just to be clear, I wasn't criticizing the strategic soundness of the missions they give us. They're actually quite suited to capsuleers.

I was more saying, there's very little obvious crusade-y feel to the missions or writing. They've just thrown in "heathen" and "subhuman" here and there for flavor.

That said, I would see the Crusade waging a fairly significant propoganda campaign as well - for instance, asking you to leave a beacon broadcasting an Imperialist message after you singlehandedly behead a major planned offensive, or completely annihiliating a fleet trying to break into Amarr space to reinforce the image that no invasion of Imperial borders will be tolerated as much as to just give the Navy a break from dealing with that particular incursion into Amarr territory.

[Silas Vitalia]

Right, right.

What about at the 'human' level though? The soldiers, the civilians, etc. I'm interested in their experience of the war machine. 

As fun as the latest trailer was I didn't get as much of a 'holy warrior for God' vibe, etc.

When a city gets captured do we get more of a 'necromonger' flavor where they round up the city leaders and force conversions, etc? Embrace the faith on your knees at the barrel of a gun kind of thing?

When an observer for a city looks out on the horizon and sees Crusade infantry and tanks rolling over the hills what do they see? I feel like the Empire is arrogant enough that it would in some cases probably even announce ahead of time they were on the way, etc?

[Bastian Valoron]

The Amarrians are known for ridiculous levels of pomp and ceremony and religious iconography. I have to imagine these would directly translate into how they conduct battles, ground assaults, and 'conversions'.

So say, instead of dropping propaganda leaflets,  maybe they drop portable holo-projectors with a 'message from the Empress' saying how fortunate they are to be about to be converted, etc.

Maybe instead of that they would project across the sky for a city about to be invaded a holy vision of what awaits them if they accept the new religion, etc. All propaganda BS of course but "a better life awaits you!" kind of a thing.

Not to mention of course how the ground troops would operate.  Prayers before battle, I'm sure there are religious representatives of the clergy for each unit, maybe they also fight alongside, who knows?

I love this idea. I could see Federation doing something similar too. In the heat of the battle, trumpets are playing fanfares and march music, walls are crumbling, statues of dictators are falling, Federation's flag is being raised, white pigeons are flying, cheerleaders are dancing, confetti is raining down, free Quafe is being offered and a radio-voice is spouting freedom slogans over the speakers.

[Saikoyu]

You could probably do this with all of the empires.  Under Heth, I think the Caldari version would be rather USSR-ish.  The Minmatar version might be something between a riot and a street party.  Or both.  But I think all of that depends on how much the "PR" people are in charge.  Any professional soldier is going to want as many chances as he can get to kill the other guy before he even knows he's there, unless they are deliberately trying to make the other side surrender with shock and awe.  So, I think it more likely that all the big displays would be after they've captured the town, not before or during. 

On a point Esna brought up though, if you want propoganda in FW space, why not use cans as beacons?  After you capture a system, have someone drop a can off saying "Amarr rule, Minies drool," or whatever.  Might be a fun touch to use. 

[Esna Pitoojee]

It's been done on occasion, Sai. The issue there is that 90% of it is OOC smack from OOC corps, rather than RP messages.

Though, I have to say, the Kamela station exterior was populated by a number of Space Nun Cans for a while; those were amusing.

[Gottii]

You could probably do this with all of the empires.  Under Heth, I think the Caldari version would be rather USSR-ish.  The Minmatar version might be something between a riot and a street party.  Or both.  But I think all of that depends on how much the "PR" people are in charge.  Any professional soldier is going to want as many chances as he can get to kill the other guy before he even knows he's there, unless they are deliberately trying to make the other side surrender with shock and awe.  So, I think it more likely that all the big displays would be after they've captured the town, not before or during. 

On a point Esna brought up though, if you want propoganda in FW space, why not use cans as beacons?  After you capture a system, have someone drop a can off saying "Amarr rule, Minies drool," or whatever.  Might be a fun touch to use.

Actually, I think progaganda would be HUGE in both major wars (Amarr vs Minmatar, Fed vs. Caldari).  I think it would be used before, during, after, etc.  Heck, even the players use propaganda to drive the wars, even when they arent even aware of it (ex: "Fed tried to commit genocide on us!"  "we're here to better you, look at the slums of Rens and tell us youre living better!" "we come for our People! (most whom prolly dont want to give up their faith)" "join the Fed and live better in the shining beacon of freedom!" etc)

The dirty secret about EVE's big wars is that in fact they're actually long running civil wars, spanning centuries, between peoples that were at least nominally once under the same regime.  (yes, the entire Minmatar pop wasnt conquored, but the Vindication Wars were very much a civil war between two factions of the same people, i.e. Ammatar vs. Minmatar).

In civil war, or indeed any war, controlling the narrative is HUGE.  If you lose the narrative, youre well on your way to losing the war.  You're fighting for your version of your story as much as you are for territory, mental mindspace is the area youre ultimately trying to conqueor, etc.  This is especially true when youre in a clash of ideologies between people who share much the same history.

[Lyn Farel]

FW missions are generic missions. They are shared by all the factions, and not faction oriented.

[Merdaneth]

FW missions are generic missions. They are shared by all the factions, and not faction oriented.

This.

[Victoria Stecker]

FW missions are generic missions. They are shared by all the factions, and not faction oriented.

This.

 

[Lucius Vindictus]

I get the impression that the average Amarrian ground forces aren't that religious at all. Kameiras are much more so than the average grunt, having been indoctrinated from birth. At least this is implied in the chronicle about Kameira's. I hope that when Dust comes out we will learn more about how the factions fight on the ground (not just the player mercenaries).

[Gottii]

I get the impression that the average Amarrian ground forces aren't that religious at all. Kameiras are much more so than the average grunt, having been indoctrinated from birth. At least this is implied in the chronicle about Kameira's. I hope that when Dust comes out we will learn more about how the factions fight on the ground (not just the player mercenaries).

Well, there is a  big difference between "religious soldiers" and "fanatics willing to die without a second thought due to intense indoctrination".  I would say most Amarrian soldiers are likely what we would consider religious, just not fanatical zealots.

Just simply being religious doesnt make you irrationally unafraid of death or a mindless automaton.

[Mathra Hiede]

I get the impression that the average Amarrian ground forces aren't that religious at all. Kameiras are much more so than the average grunt, having been indoctrinated from birth. At least this is implied in the chronicle about Kameira's. I hope that when Dust comes out we will learn more about how the factions fight on the ground (not just the player mercenaries).

Well, there is a  big difference between "religious soldiers" and "fanatics willing to die without a second thought due to intense indoctrination".  I would say most Amarrian soldiers are likely what we would consider religious, just not fanatical zealots.

Just simply being religious doesnt make you irrationally unafraid of death or a mindless automaton.

But if they are true believers then perhaps it would certainly give them an edge, or even a recklessness in combat that as long as they are honourable and true to faith should they die then they are saved? I can certainly see that being a positive factor.

That being said, its by no means isolated to the Amarr - each faction has its own core of belief/faith/ideas that when pushed and threatened give the rank and file something that makes ordinary people do extra-ordinary things, so even an a soldier who might be a true believer would probably believe in the Empress and the Empire and there-by recieve a similar boost?