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[Nmaro Makari]

I want the Amarr to have Grasers from my fiction :p

Or perhaps a "Graeser? 

[Esna Pitoojee]

I want the Amarr to have Grasers from my fiction :p

Or perhaps a "Graeser? 

Ohgod. Dat pun.

[Nmaro Makari]

I want the Amarr to have Grasers from my fiction :p

Or perhaps a "Graeser? 

Ohgod. Dat pun.

[Silas Vitalia]

Great topic.

Some interesting related weaponry we might consider:

1. I wonder quite a bit about cyberization and then "built-in" weaponry. I seem to recall an image of a 'true slave' from one of the last trailers that showed some integrated hand weaponry.

Although the PF is very light in this area I'd imagine the more elite troops from all 4 empires would be heavily mechanized or cyberized.

I'm having mental images of spec ops teams of Khanid Cyberknights pulling some Motoko Kusanagi Ghost in the Shell style combat on enemies, ruining their whole day.

In addition we have Caldari M-tacs (i believe that's the name?), so we start getting into crazy small-scale mechwarrior situations as well, with metal behemoths charging about and unloading heavy firepower on the puny infantry around them. The mechs would certainly be able to fit much larger and heavier versions of the weapons being discussed (and probably at that point incorporating missiles as well).

Ground combat in EVE is scary business.

[Gottii]

Great topic.

Some interesting related weaponry we might consider:

1. I wonder quite a bit about cyberization and then "built-in" weaponry. I seem to recall an image of a 'true slave' from one of the last trailers that showed some integrated hand weaponry.

Although the PF is very light in this area I'd imagine the more elite troops from all 4 empires would be heavily mechanized or cyberized.

I'm having mental images of spec ops teams of Khanid Cyberknights pulling some Motoko Kusanagi Ghost in the Shell style combat on enemies, ruining their whole day.

Actually, IIRC, The Burning Age mentions there was a "natural limit" to cybernetic enhancement.  Basically, the more cybernetics added to the human body, the less and less mentally capable that person became.   It seemed to imply that you can have full body cyborgs, but theyre rather more like monotask servitors from Warhammer 40k than Robocop.

[Mithfindel]

The mini-mecha people are thinking about are Mechanical Torso-Actuated Chassises (MTACs).

[kalaratiri]

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Items_%28technology%29#Military

[BloodBird]

Actually, IIRC, The Burning Age mentions there was a "natural limit" to cybernetic enhancement.  Basically, the more cybernetics added to the human body, the less and less mentally capable that person became.   It seemed to imply that you can have full body cyborgs, but theyre rather more like monotask servitors from Warhammer 40k than Robocop.

Seems the writer of that book is a fan of the 'cybernetics eat your soul' trope. I won't apologize for the language when I say that this is total bullshit, and we can argue this until we off ourselves in boredom. There is no 'natural' limit to cybernization that affects the mind's ability to function - being a complete cyborg - that is, effectively a brain and support organs in a glorified walking metal jar, has no effect other than perhaps make the inhabitant of said metal jar question his/her existence and self-identity.

Beyond that fact ofc, what CCP's employees chose to make canon in their own universe is up to them, but that don't mean any of us have to buy into their claims. It does however mean we would have to respect it as PF.

[Z.Sinraali]

There is no 'natural' limit to cybernization that affects the mind's ability to function - being a complete cyborg - that is, effectively a brain and support organs in a glorified walking metal jar, has no effect other than perhaps make the inhabitant of said metal jar question his/her existence and self-identity.

Anybody got the number to report a mad scientist to the authorities?

[Mithfindel]

We're not there yet, I'd say. Though there are issues with lost limbs, assuming you can't replicate the neural impulses. For example, my grandfather lost his leg up to the knee in the second world war. He apparently had phantom pain rather often (the missing parts were "hurting"), and it just got worse when the foot of his missing leg was itchy.

[BloodBird]

There is no 'natural' limit to cybernization that affects the mind's ability to function - being a complete cyborg - that is, effectively a brain and support organs in a glorified walking metal jar, has no effect other than perhaps make the inhabitant of said metal jar question his/her existence and self-identity.

Anybody got the number to report a mad scientist to the authorities?

 

More on topic.

My extreme annoyance with the above idiotic claim aside, while we can't in today's world get close to any of this, the EVE universe has demonstrated more than ample tech to make the cybernetic war-machine/human combo work.

- Scientists know full well how to grow entire human bodies for mass-consumption by capsuleers and others, even if this is very expensive to your average joe, and body-moding tech is reportedly available to the citizens dumb enough/willing to go through with it. Implant tech is an age-old art mastered by the Empire, Federation and I'm sure plenty more, all arguing who is better at it. This means in short that they have the medical tech to assist people with cybernetics with any biological and implant-needed help, and help integrate the human brain and any needed supporting organs with the rest of the body.

- Nano-machine tech exists in many forms, demonstrated by nano-paste used to fix ship modules on the molecular level and even active in-battle hull and armor repair nano-pumps that flood the surface of the ship with uncounted trillions of them little things, effectively re-growing and mending 'injuries' or damage to the ship as they appear. The art of out-DPS'ing an active armor tank is the art of tearing holes faster than the nano-machines can plug them, basically. Ergo, it's not to hard to assume they know how to make the little things 'grow' a machine body as a perfect replica of the human body's functions. With this, a whole artificial nerve-system can be constructed and linked to the human mind in control of this fancy piece of hard-ware and suddenly the mental command 'move the limbs' is obeyed by the non-biological appendages you want to move about.

- Capsuleers can be trained to mentally vacate their fleshy bodies and effectively become a huge warship. They are in total direct command of this vessel; when they move fingers module racks activate and do as desired, and so on. It would be so much simpler to simply train a seriously wounded/near dead/willing trooper to master the use of a cybernetic body, becoming accustomed to it's function and all the little tricks it contains.

And when you have gotten that far, there is hardly a limit to how many gadgets and weapons and such one can install or what gear one can use. Freaking imagination limits you, and mine can imagine quite allot.

Apology for the slight de-railment.

[Silas Vitalia]

There is no 'natural' limit to cybernization that affects the mind's ability to function - being a complete cyborg - that is, effectively a brain and support organs in a glorified walking metal jar, has no effect other than perhaps make the inhabitant of said metal jar question his/her existence and self-identity.

Anybody got the number to report a mad scientist to the authorities?

 

More on topic.

My extreme annoyance with the above idiotic claim aside, while we can't in today's world get close to any of this, the EVE universe has demonstrated more than ample tech to make the cybernetic war-machine/human combo work.

- Scientists know full well how to grow entire human bodies for mass-consumption by capsuleers and others, even if this is very expensive to your average joe, and body-moding tech is reportedly available to the citizens dumb enough/willing to go through with it. Implant tech is an age-old art mastered by the Empire, Federation and I'm sure plenty more, all arguing who is better at it. This means in short that they have the medical tech to assist people with cybernetics with any biological and implant-needed help, and help integrate the human brain and any needed supporting organs with the rest of the body.

- Nano-machine tech exists in many forms, demonstrated by nano-paste used to fix ship modules on the molecular level and even active in-battle hull and armor repair nano-pumps that flood the surface of the ship with uncounted trillions of them little things, effectively re-growing and mending 'injuries' or damage to the ship as they appear. The art of out-DPS'ing an active armor tank is the art of tearing holes faster than the nano-machines can plug them, basically. Ergo, it's not to hard to assume they know how to make the little things 'grow' a machine body as a perfect replica of the human body's functions. With this, a whole artificial nerve-system can be constructed and linked to the human mind in control of this fancy piece of hard-ware and suddenly the mental command 'move the limbs' is obeyed by the non-biological appendages you want to move about.

- Capsuleers can be trained to mentally vacate their fleshy bodies and effectively become a huge warship. They are in total direct command of this vessel; when they move fingers module racks activate and do as desired, and so on. It would be so much simpler to simply train a seriously wounded/near dead/willing trooper to master the use of a cybernetic body, becoming accustomed to it's function and all the little tricks it contains.

And when you have gotten that far, there is hardly a limit to how many gadgets and weapons and such one can install or what gear one can use. Freaking imagination limits you, and mine can imagine quite allot.

Apology for the slight de-railment.

I'm with Bloodbird on this one. I think it would quickly come down to money and where people spend it.  The most effective cost / benefit ratio would quickly be determined weather it more effective to throw 150 baseliner infantry and weapons at a target or throw a handful of fully mechanized cyborgs

[Gottii]

Im just quoting the PF on this.  The PF isnt about cost-balance effectiveness.  Its about the PF saying that fullborg ala Ghost in the Shell is impossible for physically and biologically reasons, not economic ones.  Im sure the Empires would field those kind of cyborgs if they could.  They cant.

Why?  Dunno.  Most likely thematic reasons as much as "scientific ones".  Probably because they dont want to take away from DUST and their characters. 

[Silas Vitalia]

Im just quoting the PF on this.  The PF isnt about cost-balance effectiveness.  Its about the PF saying that fullborg ala Ghost in the Shell is impossible for physically and biologically reasons, not economic ones.  Im sure the Empires would field those kind of cyborgs if they could.  They cant.

Why?  Dunno.  Most likely thematic reasons as much as "scientific ones".  Probably because they dont want to take away from DUST and their characters.

That makes sense.  I hope someday they elaborate a bit on the relevant Khanid bloodline though:

Cyber Knights

Many of the Khanid want to keep their warriors competitive, but the only way to do so in the modern world is through extensive body enhancements. The advanced knowledge of cyber implants possessed by the Amarrians has proven exceptionally useful in this regard. Some Khanids still aim to excel in physical combat, while the more progressive ones seek to become masters of modern warfare.

[Ghost Hunter]

Great topic.

Some interesting related weaponry we might consider:

1. I wonder quite a bit about cyberization and then "built-in" weaponry. I seem to recall an image of a 'true slave' from one of the last trailers that showed some integrated hand weaponry.

Although the PF is very light in this area I'd imagine the more elite troops from all 4 empires would be heavily mechanized or cyberized.

I'm having mental images of spec ops teams of Khanid Cyberknights pulling some Motoko Kusanagi Ghost in the Shell style combat on enemies, ruining their whole day.

Actually, IIRC, The Burning Age mentions there was a "natural limit" to cybernetic enhancement.  Basically, the more cybernetics added to the human body, the less and less mentally capable that person became.   It seemed to imply that you can have full body cyborgs, but theyre rather more like monotask servitors from Warhammer 40k than Robocop.

I will be looking into my copy of TBL to see if there is any mention of this. If you know what specific part of the book it was in, it would help.

This sounds like something that probably arose during the Sansha segment, and it is rather misleading as a general cybernetic policy.