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[Kaleigh Doyle]

...everyone's characters perceives each other as an adversary.

Perceives? Everyone is everyone else's adversary. You're not going to get around that.

What? Says who and why?

Everyone
Versus
Everyone, ma'am. 

Ha! Fair enough. I meant ideological foes with whom your character has a personal hatred for.

But you know, I think the bigger problem is there's no incentive for interaction between people beyond wanting to kill people. No one builds business partnerships or trade deals, or something cooperative that has some impact in space.

[Silver Night]

[mod]Thread cleaned a bit. Please remember that if you have issues with the way someone runs any in game organization, it is probably better to not make accusations, as it serves essentially no constructive purpose. Similarly if you have issues with another player IG, for whatever reason, it isn't acceptable to insult them or bait them.We appreciate everyone keeping the discussion on-topic and respectful.[/mod]

[Jade Constantine]

Jade:
Your ban from The Summit probably came from your repeated removals from the OOC Channel, as we tend to have a degree of parity in both channels, ban-wise.
The suggestion that the RP community has been 'schism-ed' by this is questionable at best.

I was saying that this kind of partial moderation and feuding doesn't help really. Obviously it would not be the whole of the problem - but its undeniable that if I (as the leader of an RP faction in Eve) tell my friends and comrades that X channel is run by people motivated by feuds etc) it won't help people to explore those places.

That said, the grudges you refer to are undeniable.
Former moderators of these channels, without getting too specific, have sometimes carried such grudges with a visible fervor.
That, along with several other issues raised in this thread, sent to my mailbox, and filling the channels themselves over the last few weeks, has me wanting to shake things up.

Well thats good to hear and I think its long overdue.

Over the next couple of days, I'll be purging the operator lists of inactive players, hiring on new moderators (hopefully in adequate numbers and timezone coverages) and slashing the ban lists considerably, for both channels. There's been a lot of attempts recently by us bitter vets to re-approach the idea of the RP community. BackStage itself was a successful effort at this. No reason we can't give things a shot. Folks who are being welcomed back should be advised, of course, that a mod may re-institute some bans based on not much more than a whim. The waters should probably be eased into before being tested too strongly. 

Well I think moderation by whim should probably be avoided. But it is a generally positive step and I'll be happy to try the waters again in a respectful manner.

[Matariki Rain]

a neutral IC environment

I'm not sure such a thing is possible. ;-)

It is, it is. ^^

Could you explain how? Or perhaps what you mean by "neutral"?

I'm thinking hard about this again. I've been asked a couple of times to moderate "neutral" channels IC, and it usually seems to go with an expectation of "being respectful of the opinions of characters who wish to see my character's people forcibly converted, enslaved or asploded". Mata is remarkably forbearing when she's a guest, and has a history of personal contacts with people from all over the spectrum, but hosting something public which can be a vehicle for hatespeech against the things she works for, and where she's supposed to put up with that, isn't something I can easily reconcile with the character. She's not a Gallente, with their "free speech is an undoubted virtue".

(There's an ongoing tension, by the way, between "be welcoming; grow; let more role payers in" and "you employed who?- so Mata now has dubious judgement and loyalty, right?".)

I've said before that one of the very few events that I might imagine us all attending is some kind of advanced pod trade show or conference: somewhere where you have to go because you can't afford to let the others get ahead of you.

[Ember Vykos]

I see the Summit as more of a 'hang out'. Nothing too serious or heavy just a bunch of people hanging out and chatting about whatever. That's not to say there isn't room for serious or heavy subjects in the summit, just that there are alternatives.

Personally I don't RP there much on Simca unless I just want to veg out and have a bit of fun or chit chat with some of her friends that aren't in some of the other channels.

[Graelyn]

I think 'hangout' nails it pretty well.

[Borza]

I'd discuss PF news items IC there... but they're rather thin on the ground.

Neither re-hashing the PF background nor public character development of my rather private character appeal.

So what's left? Listening to people jabbering away about nonsense/capsuleer private life gossip. Meh.

Because people are utterly reliant on CCP or the ISD to spew out IC news articles. :\

There are plenty of folks doing their own news articles on an IC perspective, or at least there were -- Arcadia News Network was notable, though I'm unsure where that stands just now after Ashar Incorporated returned from being in stasis, and there's those Tech4 people who were on the IGS recently.

Failing that? Make your own news. Think of something that could have reasonable happened on a planet or station, and discuss. It's a big cluster; use some creativity.

CBA with those who deny that non-official news 'nevar happened' if it's inconvenient. Which is sometimes understandable given god-moding.

[Kybernetes Moros]

CBA with those who deny that non-official news 'nevar happened' if it's inconvenient. Which is sometimes understandable given god-moding.

>Complains about not having news.
>"CBA" making some news.

The whole "inconvenient thus never happened" thing is seen from time to time with the ISD news too. Your choice; just not one that I can make sense of.

[Mebrithiel]

Summit???

oshit, I've been neglecting Meb's bitching/antagonizing/seduction techniques in favour of playing the game 

[Louella Dougans]

"I read a thing..."

is how I used to start conversations that were intended to allow people to talk about their planets or cultures.

"I read a thing that said Gallente fashion people say glass dresses are passe" or some such.

[Lyn Farel]

a neutral IC environment

I'm not sure such a thing is possible. ;-)

It is, it is. ^^

Could you explain how? Or perhaps what you mean by "neutral"?

I'm thinking hard about this again. I've been asked a couple of times to moderate "neutral" channels IC, and it usually seems to go with an expectation of "being respectful of the opinions of characters who wish to see my character's people forcibly converted, enslaved or asploded". Mata is remarkably forbearing when she's a guest, and has a history of personal contacts with people from all over the spectrum, but hosting something public which can be a vehicle for hatespeech against the things she works for, and where she's supposed to put up with that, isn't something I can easily reconcile with the character. She's not a Gallente, with their "free speech is an undoubted virtue".

(There's an ongoing tension, by the way, between "be welcoming; grow; let more role payers in" and "you employed who?- so Mata now has dubious judgement and loyalty, right?".)

I've said before that one of the very few events that I might imagine us all attending is some kind of advanced pod trade show or conference: somewhere where you have to go because you can't afford to let the others get ahead of you.

It depends of the channel itself. The Summit would hardly be considered as neutral atm, and I am not even sure this is possible indeed.

But the channel I created for discussions around culture, knowledge, world building and stuff like this (and that is mostly silent like all the other ones), is strictly neutral, and I do not think that I am wrong to state that it is true (when I am here at least, I am the only admin). It is neutral in the sense that it does not allow censorship, nor has any political affiliation. People lurking in, have some, of course though. Anyway, this is basically a library gathering EVERYTHING possible in New Eden. How can a free library in Yulai allowing people to read and discuss of everything they want as long as that remains a discussion (and not a heated debate) be something else than neutral ?

You might argue that the owner is not neutral, which is probably true, though, but if the purpose of the channel is respected I do not see how it could be something else than neutral. Or maybe if we consider that the channel is not neutral toward agressive stances and bigotery/prejudices (which is opposed to knowledge), but well...

[Arkady Sadik]

How can a free library in Yulai allowing people to read and discuss of everything they want as long as that remains a discussion (and not a heated debate) be something else than neutral ?

Does the library allow people to bring their slaves and Khumaaks?

[Merdaneth]

The best way (IMO) to get interesting IC discussion of PF is to start them yourself.

The best way to start it yourself is simply ask other characters (relatively open) questions.

I've put it into practice tonight in the Summit, and I believe it worked fairly well.

[Borza]

CBA with those who deny that non-official news 'nevar happened' if it's inconvenient. Which is sometimes understandable given god-moding.

>Complains about not having news.
>"CBA" making some news.

The whole "inconvenient thus never happened" thing is seen from time to time with the ISD news too. Your choice; just not one that I can make sense of.

> Disagree with someone
> Put a strawman of their argument into bulletpoints


It isn't for us to move PF of the NPC factions along, that's CCP's task. It's something we cannot do ourselves* - , even if we had nothing better to do with our time than try.
We RP in the universe, CCP progress the background story to keep that universe interesting. Or used to anyway.



* Even when our actions or stories are absorbed into PF it's by CCP's whim

[Kybernetes Moros]

> Disagree with someone
> Put a strawman of their argument into bulletpoints


It isn't for us to move PF of the NPC factions along, that's CCP's task. It's something we cannot do ourselves* - , even if we had nothing better to do with our time than try.
We RP in the universe, CCP progress the background story to keep that universe interesting. Or used to anyway.

This is rapidly redirecting the thread, but I'm not trying to be a bitch about things. Why is Lou's kind of thing, "I read / heard / was told than on <such and such a planet / station>, this happened" outside players' scope? I guess I don't see why news has to be vast, game changing stuff (hell, I found that to be a problem with a lot of CCP's later news items) -- and I certainly wasn't making a strawman as highlighting where I was finding confusion. v0v

EDIT: To make this a more general topic: what do people actually think of this? I always found RP that refused anything not explicitly stated in PF kind of stale, given PF's currently relatively narrow scope -- of course, YMMV. Part of the fun for me is taking the constraints of PF and what's already known, along with a small aspect of a small piece of a huge universe, and playing around to see what can be come up with.