EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources > Player Driven Content
The accuracy of our Roleplay - Capsuleers mindset.
Mathra Hiede:
Please dont take anything posted here personally, and as a minor disclaimer this is my own thoughts and doesn't nescesarily reflect the truth of events.
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After reading The Burning Life, and musing a bit about how in the CCP fiction the typical Capsuleer is portrayed I started to think about how the characters we RP as actually relate to EVE Fiction.
In my mind, the form of a capsuleer that has been active for longer than a year or so would start to "suffer" from the things you see in alot of the fiction (or at least what I have read) where the Capsuleer grows apart from his/her humanity to a point where being out of the pod is an annoying need, where we become flimsy and breakable beings as opposed to gods of the sky.
The dominance of the Capsuleers is also what seems to be a large part in their development of a "god complex" or at least a complete disregard for anything that isn't of their kind.
Warping their behaviours untill they seem less like humans and more like a species of demi-gods that only share a physical similarity to their human cousins.
Thus - I ask, are we RPing our characters as TOO Human?
Alot of the people I see value the lives of their Non-Capsule capable men and women, yet will quite happily go out and blow a few hundred thousand out of the sky in a belt/mission/other ships.
Does this show the character to be very narrow minded or a seperation from the truth of the issue, which is that most capsuleers really don't give a flying F*** as to whatever happens to the normal humans in any given circumstance.
I know my character, personally, doesn't care too much if people die, he sees it as something that just "is" in New Eden, Capsuleers kill and other people die.
The other thing is we all seem to be very human and normal in our responses and actions, ie. we all care, believe, fear, hope and are generally affected largely by the goings on around us.
Would a Capsuleer be truly like this? Would they still feel emotions the same, and if so are they triggered the same way?
Do we feel and care more for the ships we fly than the simple human forms we know as other people?
Feel free to discuss this at length, correct me and tear my ideas down but I thought I would just post this as a thought provoker on the issue.
Mithfindel:
One thing that would matter would likely be amount of combat and casualties the capsuleer has. And of course, the amount of time the capsuleer spends in a pod. For example, I'm a casual player, so I assume that my characters are rather much doing other things in flesh and jump in the capsule when it benefits them, not the other way of staying in the capsule until leaving cannot be avoided.
Merdaneth:
Personally, I don't agree with much of this God complex at all.
Why are capsuleers in-game (and not in novels etc.) losing their humanity?
- It is a game, most people know it and don't give a rat's ass about NPCs, but can go all dramatic over one little podding. The fiction tries to represent the uncaring attitude about NPC as detachment/inhumanity. Has nothing to do with being a pod-pilot.
- Your traditional senses don't see anything associated with dying people. Nobody is bothered by seeing neatly packaged meat in the supermarket, but many people today have difficulty watching an animal get slaughtered. It is the detachment of button-push wars. Has nothing to do with being a pod-pilot.
- There simply aren't any non-capsuleers to interact with. Obviously if the only living beings you meet and can interact with are capsuleers, it would be only a matter of time before you start to consider others as meaningless and not worthy of empathy.
- Being able to use clones to avoid some deaths. This would have some God complex effect, but since everyone around you also has the same thing, it would certainly do much to humble you.
As said, I consider the God-complex and dehumanizing effect in fiction to be largely an effort to retrofit the peculiarities of the game-enviroment into it together with some real effects (button push detachment) that are not exclusive to the pod.
If I disregard the dehumanizing effects of the game-mechanics, I don't see a lot of particular factors that would contribute more to a God-complex and dehumanization other than being able to have clones.
Havohej:
--- Quote from: Mathra Hiede on 22 Apr 2010, 00:29 ---After reading The Burning Life, and musing a bit about how in the CCP fiction the typical Capsuleer is portrayed I started to think about how the characters we RP as actually relate to EVE Fiction.
In my mind, the form of a capsuleer that has been active for longer than a year or so would start to "suffer" from the things you see in alot of the fiction (or at least what I have read) where the Capsuleer grows apart from his/her humanity to a point where being out of the pod is an annoying need, where we become flimsy and breakable beings as opposed to gods of the sky.
--- End quote ---
I haven't read TBL, so I may be misunderstanding but you seem to be describing a capsuleer as becoming physically weaker over time spent in the same clone. If that's so, I'd assume the reason is muscular atrophy due to spending the bulk of one's time suspended in pod fluid and not using the body's muscles (nor needing them). For this reason, I always get kinda annoyed at the prevalence of uber out-of-pod fighting machines... genetically enhanced martial space-arts masters, crackshot super marksmen with twenty blaster rifles slung across their back and thermonuclear hand-grenades, I've seen people pose all sorts of shit in their RP. I'm rather fond of saying "CCP left physical attributes off of our character sheets for a reason...", but they're having fun so whatever. I just let the supersoldier RPers play supersoldier with each other and try to stay as far away from it as I can because to my understanding capsuleers are gods of the sky. Keywords: of the sky.
--- Quote from: Mathra Hiede on 22 Apr 2010, 00:29 ---Thus - I ask, are we RPing our characters as TOO Human?
--- End quote ---
I think yes and no. I play Havo as being pretty insane, based somewhat off of my understanding/interpretation of "Capsuleer Dementia" as described in by the character Aria Jenneth, who incidentally influenced part of his outlook quite directly. One day, I'll draw him up using Hamish's template - I think a lot of people would be quite surprised by what it would reveal about my character. Anyway, he places no value on human life at all, except in the sense that it can be used in any number of ways as a means to any number of ends. But he didn't become that way as soon as he became a capsuleer. He became that way after blowing up so many ships and losing so many ships he lost count of the bodies. Some time after he lost count, he stopped feeling guilty about losing count. Some time after that, he stopped feeling guilty about the killing. Then he stopped feeling the same way he used to feel altogether. He still feels, but he feels from a much different perspective and mindset, now; more instinctive and predatory. If not for all the killing, I don't think his mindset would've changed so much; if he were primarily a miner, he would probably still be quite human in his outlook.
I should note, though, that I've seen non-combat characters played as having rather non-human outlooks. A pragmatic market alt I know that's played as a full-on character values ISK and efficiency of profit above all, I bet she'd sign off on some wholesale murder if it would be net a profit - reminds me of Mordin Solus from Mass Effect 2, only with money instead of science. So I'm not saying only combat pilots would lose their connection with their pre-capsule humanity, just that I think it would be the most likely reason a pilot would.
Now, it could be like Merdaneth suggests with his first two points:
--- Quote from: Merdaneth on 22 Apr 2010, 01:07 ---- It is a game, most people know it and don't give a rat's ass about NPCs, but can go all dramatic over one little podding. The fiction tries to represent the uncaring attitude about NPC as detachment/inhumanity. Has nothing to do with being a pod-pilot.
- Your traditional senses don't see anything associated with dying people. Nobody is bothered by seeing neatly packaged meat in the supermarket, but many people today have difficulty watching an animal get slaughtered. It is the detachment of button-push wars. Has nothing to do with being a pod-pilot.
--- End quote ---
..except that I think both of those have everything to do with being a pod pilot. Only a pod pilot can wade into an NPC Battleship fleet plus support with just his/her own battleship and a few drones and completely annihilate them. Only a capsuleer can "push butan kill 5 thousand people". Yes, five thousand people die when an NPC BS kills an NPC BS, but it wasn't just "push butan" for them, it was an epic battle. Yes, a single high ranking politician can order a planetary bombardment and kill millions, but look at how high ranking politicians in EVE are portrayed in the PF.. not many shining beacons of humanity among them, and several actually are capsuleers themselves.
I think one of the reasons a lot of peoples' characters harp on the "all those innocent people!" bit is that some folks like to play the good guy. If you're trying to be the good guy, disregard for human life probably doesn't mesh well with that. It doesn't look/sound very heroic. Of course, there are exceptions. She may post here herself, but I'll use my corpmate Zuzanna Alondra as an example; she's having fun with Du'uma Fiisi's whole bad guy evil terrorist thing, but her character ICly clings to good guy ideals even as time and the series of cruel and inexcusable acts she participates in as a director of the corporation grows longer and slowly erodes her morality. Of course, Havohej encourages her and it's pretty fun OOC to watch her character struggle to find rationalizations so that she can swallow what the corp does herself. Outwardly, she appears to be clinging to a 'human' mentality, but it's not actually the player trying to play a 'human' combat-focused capsuleer.
--- Quote from: Mathra Hiede on 22 Apr 2010, 00:29 ---The other thing is we all seem to be very human and normal in our responses and actions, ie. we all care, believe, fear, hope and are generally affected largely by the goings on around us.
Would a Capsuleer be truly like this? Would they still feel emotions the same, and if so are they triggered the same way?
Do we feel and care more for the ships we fly than the simple human forms we know as other people?
--- End quote ---
I think the more 'slippage' (to borrow from Stephen King) toward dementia a capsuleer has had, the more different the triggers for the emotions would become, but all the same emotions would be there. If the capsuleer's personality leans toward the predatory end of the spectrum, I think some emotions would even be more intense.
Specifically as regards the "God Complex" idea, when I hear god complex, I think "This guy things he's omnipotent/all-knowing. I don't see that as a likely common trait among capsuleers, but I do believe it's reasonable that there would be a healthy amount of arrogance, maybe a bit of recklessness and empowerment (in space, not out-of-pod). I believe it likely that there would be a sense of entitlement due to being part of the capsuleer class and arrogance toward the lesser class (humans) and other capsuleers seen to be less skilled with only grudging respect for fellow capsuleers seen to be more talented (because of course this means they're more dangerous).
--- Quote from: Mathra Hiede on 22 Apr 2010, 00:29 ---Feel free to discuss this at length, correct me and tear my ideas down
--- End quote ---
Tearing ideas down isn't our thing here at Backstage ;)
Merdaneth:
--- Quote from: Havohej on 22 Apr 2010, 01:28 ---..except that I think both of those have everything to do with being a pod pilot. Only a pod pilot can wade into an NPC Battleship fleet plus support with just his/her own battleship and a few drones and completely annihilate them. Only a capsuleer can "push butan kill 5 thousand people". Yes, five thousand people die when an NPC BS kills an NPC BS, but it wasn't just "push butan" for them, it was an epic battle. Yes, a single high ranking politician can order a planetary bombardment and kill millions, but look at how high ranking politicians in EVE are portrayed in the PF.. not many shining beacons of humanity among them, and several actually are capsuleers themselves.
--- End quote ---
I'm honestly considering to have my character assume that there is practically no crew on EvE ships, NPC and player ships. There is no verifiable evidence that there is crew, and a lot of evidence that there isn't any crew. Packaging and moving ships for example, apparently the crew is magically added again when you activate the ship. Never any crew salary that needs to be paid, I have unused all around New Eden, some even in-space, for years on end. Whenever I board them, they are all fully crewed, never have to pay anything.
Let's not even talk about the huge amount of NPC ships destroyed. If a NPC non-capsuleer battleship requires even more crew that a capsuleer ship, we are talking about millions upon millions of deaths each day. I can imagine use factories pumping out battleships by the dozen, but you can't manufacture crew that easily. It makes a lot more sense to me for ships to hardly have any crew than a lot of crew.
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