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[Lyn Farel]

Well, let me reiterate what I said above because you do not seem to grasp what I imply :

However, taking an antagonistic stance against an organization that doesn't even exist in an OOC thread is unlikely to engender many possible individuals that wish to form an alliance to jump to the fray.

Actually I do think it would be quite the opposite. A RP alliance does not start or collapse because of enemies, it collapses because of a lack of RP interaction imo. Enemies = interaction = motivations = source of dynamism.

1) I never said RP enemies are the main and only factor for a RP alliance to work. I just said it is an important thing as it keeps your alliance fighting for something (even if you can find other motivators).

2) Who spoke about dummies or strawman enemies ? Enemies are to come naturally. Did KotMC put PIE in their list of iconic enemies just for the sake of unifying their members against someone ? No, it came naturally, and helped define what KotMC are in the amarrian political roster.

What I say : RP interactions, be them hostile, friendly, neutral, cold, hot, whatever, are the main motivator of any entity. You can stay in autarky in your alliance but you will either miss a lot of opportunities, and either lose a lot of your members that are naturally drawn to what happen externally.

And I do not speak about fake interactions or something. 

[Seriphyn]

The problem with EVE RP is that it's competitive, not cooperative. The very nature of EVE is competitive, in destroying other people's efforts and work, and CCP actively encourages this. In this regard, EVE RP is often used as an excuse to "piss on other people's cheerios".

So while I am interested in gathering people to see if an alliance could be formed, I'm pretty apprehensive over the fact that it'll probably be destroyed by Star Fraction, like the last one was.

[Julianus Soter]

Star Fraction had anything to do with Acheron Federation disbanding? Huh?

[Nakito Yakiya]

EVE RP is often used as an excuse to "piss on other people's cheerios".

Why would anyone need an excuse? RP only provides extra flavour to your piss. 

People will do it with RP or not....

[Vieve]

Star Fraction had anything to do with Acheron Federation disbanding? Huh?

Wait, what?  Did I miss a memo or something?   

[orange]

Star Fraction had anything to do with Acheron Federation disbanding? Huh?

Wait, what?  Did I miss a memo or something?   

I think Seriphyn is confusing Acheron Federation with the Caldari KD.

[Seriphyn]

Hm...I'm sure Star Fraction pummeled some major RP alliance to the ground?

[Jason Galente]

I'd actually really like to see a Gallente RP alliance. Unfortunately the only Gallenteans that have really jumped into the Gallente-Caldari debate have made themselves out to be complete idiots, with a few exceptions. Gallente RP does seem to be struggling a bit though, there's less desperate perpetuation to the Gallentean situation in the war than say the Minmatar in their struggle.

[Jade Constantine]

The Gallente alliance we fought (in the Star Fraction) was The Cyrene Initiative that was operating out of Stacmon and the loops area in the campaign "popular totalitarianism". I believe that after they split from the Star Fraction - Stimulus went on to punish some of the ex Cyrene guys who went with Acheron Federation but Bacchanalian could tell you more.

On the general point of whether its worth the bother of building a new Gallente alliance because it'll just be destroyed by the Fraction (or some other anti government fighters) I'd say look at the kind of alliance you are thinking of building really. Gallente culture in New Eden has some admirable traits and its not neccessary to always put the focus on the militarist/totalitarian fascist aspects of what it means to be Gallente. Why can't a Gallente alliance be pro-freespace for example? Why not be pro-trade pro-research and development? Be forward-thinking and enlightened? It is not neccessary to always parrot the NPC-driven dogma of the Faction Warfare plotline.

You could have the kind of Gallente alliance that is against the war with the State and wants to return to the golden age of expansion and space exploration with rights, freedom and prosperity for all.

What I'm trying to say really is don't hand-wring about "oh noes the star fraction will come and kill us!" before you have considered the kind of Gallente alliance you might build. Currently the Fraction is spending most of our time fighting pirates and road-blockers in Gallente and Intaki lowsec. We've found common cause with many indepedents, Caldari liberals, intaki separatists - why not with enlighted Gallente freespacers and commercial visionaries? In our time we've found ways to coexist with a lot of people.

But if a new Gallente alliance is going to follow the Cyrene/Acheron/Strix/Moira model of totalitarian/militarist mirror to Heth stuff then I guess you do invite opposition from anti government fighters - I'm just saying that you don't need to pidgeonhole yourselves in that way and shouldn't fear that an organization like the Fraction would stomp over your creation just because you name yourselves after a government - generally its the detail of what you do that counts and we are always open to fair and respectful diplomacy.

[Bacchanalian]

I believe that after they split from the Star Fraction - Stimulus went on to punish some of the ex Cyrene guys who went with Acheron Federation but Bacchanalian could tell you more.

TL;DR (because I'm drunk--Laphroaig 10 is too good for the price), we saw a fight between the Caldari and CYI+Acheron and got in on it.  The Caldari approached us and begged for help as they were getting stomped, said they'd fight for freespace and pretty much give up the Caldariness (and eventually after flying with them in that war we assimilated most of them), so we kicked CYI and Acheron to death.  CYI lived on after that, but they were mostly a ghost alliance even during that war, and certainly they were worse after it.  Acheron simply collapsed like a house of cards after that, despite fighting rather valiantly, if incompetently, for the duration of the war. 

FWIW, I still hold Acheron in the highest regard.  They simply NEVER shied from a fight, ever, and were happy to take an honest shot at any fight we'd put before them.  Good on em, and they took well to honest guidance (I would eve-mail their guys a lot after killing them on how to improve their fit or piloting). 

Anyway, rather drunk post.  Might add more when sober in the morning.

[Mithfindel]

My old Amarr character may be somewhat stubborn in his views, but I can't help to partially agree OOC with the character's view that the Star Fraction is a Gallente alliance. Of course how SF exactly functions means that it won't be any kind of a nationalist alliance, even a liberal one and trying to grow a "Great Unified Gallente Alliance" out of SF would be outright silly. No comments on whether the idea of GUGA is silly on itself, though.

Alliances offer a common wardec, having more war slots, some additional options to POS (shield access, alliance-wide research etc.), common standings, and a system chat channel. Possibly something I've forgot. However, if those aren't needed (and for example private chat channels can be used otherwise than founding an alliance), then what is an alliance good for?

[Julianus Soter]

See, I thought Stimulus had already split from SF before then.

[mod]Snip, see here[/mod]

[Jade Constantine]

My old Amarr character may be somewhat stubborn in his views, but I can't help to partially agree OOC with the character's view that the Star Fraction is a Gallente alliance. Of course how SF exactly functions means that it won't be any kind of a nationalist alliance, even a liberal one and trying to grow a "Great Unified Gallente Alliance" out of SF would be outright silly. No comments on whether the idea of GUGA is silly on itself, though.

Alliances offer a common wardec, having more war slots, some additional options to POS (shield access, alliance-wide research etc.), common standings, and a system chat channel. Possibly something I've forgot. However, if those aren't needed (and for example private chat channels can be used otherwise than founding an alliance), then what is an alliance good for?

While certainly, I couldn't see Star Fraction ever being a Gallente Nationalist alliance *shock horror shiver* - I could see us cooperating with a progressive freespace-orientated Gallente Alliance that wanted to open up areas of lowsec/nullsec and work together against regressive pirate roadblockers and general nere-do-wells. Freespace activism is largely about recognizing and respecting independence from the old territorial bad-nationalist xenophobia and I think the Gallente national character in Eve is ideal for building something better.

Ironically for the history buffs Jericho Fraction once took a contract from the Quafe corporation to run security for the launch of its new Quafe Ultra range and ended up defending the starlets from extremist anti holo porn militants IN SPACE (with the militants played by members of the dev team). This ended up with us meeting the old president

[Andreus Ixiris]

Wow, sure is e-peen in here.

If an RP-centric Federation alliance ever formed, Mixed Metaphor would almost certainly have a hand in it if at all possible - heck, we might be one of the founding members. The concept certainly has been tossed about a few times within MXD's hearing since we formed, and we've even considered doing it ourselves a few times. Heck, if it needed a leader, I'd certainly be willing to give it a go - I'm a decent FC and I run a quiet, low-membership but financially successful corporation. Back when we had more members we had a pretty high level of military success as well. The main issue with a Federal RP alliance is twofold:

1. We don't need one. The Federal RP crowd is neither large enough (see point 2) nor cohesive enough that we have anything resembling a common agenda or any common enemies other than the ones that can be combatted through the broken, until-recently-abandoned militia system, which precludes involvement in an alliance due to developer shortsightedness. The Federal RP scene's currently just a loose cluster of like-minded individuals and corporations - it's not glamorous but it's worked so far and there's no need to change it at present.

2. The Federal RP scene lacks commitment. Mixed Metaphor is one of the oldest surviving Federal RP corporations. There was a brief time just before Empyrean Age where I believe we were one of only three or four. Most Federal RP corporations do not remain Federal RP corporations. Moira, which I helped found alongside Jonny Damordred and Julianus Soter - though they do their best to forget that little fact - was founded with the specific purpose of forming a new, powerful force in Federation roleplay and PvP. It managed the latter just fine, and it played the whole Federation RP thing OK up until the Viriette constellation was returned to Gallente hands and then it became... well, in terms of RP, I don't know what the fuck it became, but it ain't a Federal RP corp now, as far as I can tell.

Eleutherian Guard, although we've had our differences, is pretty much the only Federal RP corp that, founding-to-present, neither died nor abandoned its focus on Federal RP. The militia corps play at RP but they're not really that interested in it, and who can blame them? The Federal RP scene is kind of... boring. I myself have been tempted to move Mixed Metaphor away from Federal RP several times now - heck, I was even going to join Veto, until I decided it wasn't quite my lifestyle. But I've always come back, because hell, it's what I know.

I also dispute the notion that a Federal roleplay alliance would neccessarily have to be democratic in nature. Mixed Metaphor is a corporation that has on more than one occasion fought to defend the values of freedom, self-determination and democracy. We are not a democracy - if you want to have a say in corporate direction, you earn my trust and respect and you become a director - and if there's a corporate operation in progress, you're damn well expected to be a part of it. We are a private organisation which operates in support of a national entity. We are not required to organise ourselves in a democratic nature - I wouldn't expect anything different from a private alliance, either.

[Saxon Hawke]

Glad to see to Pro-Fed block coming out to play on the Recall Roden thread. You're all welcome to show up in the freeintaki channel to debate such matters in real time, or, if I'm on you can find Saxon trying to win the favor of the Supreme Court in Villore.