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[Malcolm Khross]

Ugh...and reading my above post, I realize it probably sounded a lot more hostile than I meant it. That's what happens when I'm responding while low on sleep and irritated with something else.

Sorry Kaleigh, I'm not trying to be hostile toward you, I was trying to make a point and could've chosen slightly less confrontational words to do it.

[Vieve]

I miss IC Ventrilo.


Okay, I've only been on an IC Ventrilo once (the audio channel run during the Malkalen Incident), but it was a lot of fun.

[Desiderya]

I consider it OOC.
These likes go for the IC section as well as the OOC section. This is the reason why you can't say that a character is well liked by the amount of 'likes' in a mostly OOC board. Also I would want to use this feature to like posts from "enemies" when they're well-written.

As far as "shying away from player interaction" goes I can't help but grin. You can like an in-character post made by a character via character interaction - consequently called roleplaying - such as posting on the IGS, dropping it in conversation or writing an IC mail to complement.
This surely is a better way than just clicking a button. It requires more effort, too, and is therefore considered to be more honest by me.

[Arkady Sadik]

I can only recommend not to put too much value into the total sum of "likes" any character or player has - the sum usually means very little, as these like/reputation/+1 features are used in very different ways, and some people just "like" everything their friends say. Putting too much value into the sum means encouraging people to just "like" everything regardless of post value to endorse their friends. (The effects of reputation systems etc. are very interesting to watch on various forums...)

On the other hand, I really like such features to provide a "thank you for this post" feature. Some posts are very well-written, good RP, and I want to give some positive feedback to those players without having to write an OOC EVE mail every time going "oh, I liked your post there".

As someone mentioned, IC "endorsement" of posts is such a great opportunity to generate actual RP interaction that I wouldn't want to miss it. Though I guess having both an IC and OOC "like" button would be nice. On the other hand, that would get kind of complicated...

[Ryven Krennel]

I treat my one and only like as OOC.  Thanks, Mal. 

[Kaleigh Doyle]

No, I wouldn't accuse you of blurring the lines at all. If you went that obnoxiously far about it, I'd probably just make an IC post about disregarding it with an OOC disclaimer and then never "like" anything you typed again.
If people want to be that obnoxious about it and begin using it as an "IC tool" for promoting turning it into a "let's be buddies! I'll like you and you like me!" cabbage patch babies group toy, then I'll simply stop using it altogether.

I bolded the part that I'm replying to, just for clarity, as I didn't want to rip out sentences from your response.

The like button can be just as an effective tool for showing support for someone's message as a reply to the comment. It doesn't necessarily have to be lovey dovey; it could be just a pleasant and private way of saying "I agree with your point. Well said." This is a mature and private response that I think some characters utilize in-character to voice silent support. In other words, its presence doesn't necessarily have to be antithetical to the theme of EVE. Honestly, I think the backlash against the tool is rooted more in PLAYER's preconceptions about the implementation of the LIKE tool, based on prior experiences with it in the world of FACEBOOK. So when people look at the LIKE tool here, they say, "Oh god, its facebook in space. fuck this! NOT IN MY EVE!"

Now granted, you may not have any experience with Facebook and my point may not represent your feelings, but I think the general sentiment still hits on target. My point is the TOOL can still be utilized positively in-character, and I don't think it should be tossed aside as OOC so easily.

I think it's funny that you meantion "the INSANITY people go through to avoid player interaction" because that IS blurring IC/OOC. Players shouldn't be interacting on IC forums, characters should. If you want to interact with me as a player, use backstage, an OOC chat channel, Ventrillo or any of the other available methods to do it, but keep player interaction out of my IC forums. It's irritating enough already that it exists so that a silly conversation like this one is even possible. Besides, you're talking about "player interaction" and then trying to say that it's an IC device - that's not "player interaction" that's "charaacter interaction." I'm the one talking about player interaction and how it should stay OOC.

I often hear and see on these boards and throughout EVE 'my character wouldn't do this' or 'my character wouldn't do that', and I always see players using this excuse to avoid participating in projects. That's fine, this is the player's prerogative. YOU, the player behind Malcom, have final say in the character's behavior. Why? Because the character cannot function without your fingers moving. It's the players motive to remain true to the character when interacting, not the character's final decision to remain true to themselves.

What I'm saying to YOU the player is that YOU the player have a choice as to whether to make IGS like buttons IC or OOC. My entire point behind this discussion is that EVERYONE ELSE also has this choice to make, and there WILL BE situations where people will misinterpret each other's likes as either IC or OOC, and there WILL be discrepancies. Just understand that not everyone agrees with your position, such as myself. Am I going to use it ever to engage characters/players? Probably not, but others might. 

[Louella Dougans]

I press the "like" button on things which I thought would provide interesting opportunities for people to rp with.

[Malcolm Khross]

A valid clarification, Kaleigh and thank you for not taking my original tone too much to heart.

I personally don't have any experience with Facebook, I avoid that site like the plague. But you are right, others probably use it quite frequently and so their experiences would be related, I had not thought of that.

Like a lot of things in EVE when it comes to RP, it's really going to come down to how we, as a community, choose to perceive it as a greater whole. Since it's not like CCP is going to come forward and declare "The Like button is an OOC feature and should not be considered IC." We agree wholeheartedly that it's going to come down to individual player perceptions.
A point on the "my character would or wouldn't do this" comments. You are correct, and it's a point I've made before, that a character is a lifeless, inanimate thing without the player behind it and that it is the player's choice to stick to their perception of what their character would or wouldn't do. For some of us, this distinction is easy, for others it isn't. There have been several times that I, as a player, have wanted to do something but didn't because my character simply wouldn't do it. (This is most commonly seen when I played Raze and specifically opted out of several fleet and militia operations because they clashed with Raze's "defense only" philosophy. In the end, it is me deciding to uphold Raze's viewpoints, but the scope is that Raze, the character, wouldn't participate and chooses not to, not that I, the player wouldn't.

If people choose to use the "like" function as an in-character endorsement, I would probably offer the same justification to them as my OOC justification. That being that Malcolm would argue that it isn't an "endorsement" it's a "I thought this was a very well constructed post and could respect it, even if I disagree with it" in most cases.

[Ghost Hunter]

You are aware that you can see who "likes" your posts, right?

Well that changes the equation a tad.

I haven't explored it very thoroughly it seems

[Malcolm Khross]

It's important to note you can see who likes your posts.

Other people cannot see who likes your posts, only the number of times a specific post has been liked and how many likes a person has received.

[Louella Dougans]

if you get more than 3 or so likes for a post it just shows 2 names "and x others liked your post"

[Victoria Stecker]

I think my concern with it is that it's publicly visible and therefore runs the risk of becoming a sort of popularity contest. I recall last time the forums went live there was some light competition to see who could get the most 'likes' - a competition 'won' by certain [disrepectful slur self-editted] players in majror nullsec alliances. It had nothing to do with whether you posted anything good, just how many friends you had.

So while I can appreciate its value as Kaleigh has pointed out, overall I think it's... bleh.  More potential downsides than upsides.

As for IC vs OOC... eh, it's kinda like in the game. Everything in space is IC. If some nullsec [edit] has a thousand+ likes, it's because there really are that many people that 'like' her (or at least like listening to her on comms). As for liking someone's IC post of OOC reasons... *shrug* handwave it, or use an unknown alt, or deal with comlimenting people on their well-reasoned and eloquent posts before pointing out how very wrong they are.

[Lyn Farel]

The like button can be just as an effective tool for showing support for someone's message as a reply to the comment. It doesn't necessarily have to be lovey dovey; it could be just a pleasant and private way of saying "I agree with your point. Well said." This is a mature and private response that I think some characters utilize in-character to voice silent support. In other words, its presence doesn't necessarily have to be antithetical to the theme of EVE.

I will probably sound like a cynical bittervet, but I do think that this is probably not the case for the majority of the people roaming on the IGS. This whole thing is ruled by the OOC boundaries of who is friend with who and just rating their friends with a +1 for whatever they say, like Arkady said, and to my eyes the rest being at best, anecdotal.

It is maybe ok for the rest of the eve forums, where everyone is melted into the mass of the playerbase, but on the RP forums, we are a little community where everyone almost knows everyone else.


Edit : oh well, what Vic said.

[DeadRow]

If I ever were to use the IGS, I'd use the function IC.

[Mitara Newelle]

I'd say it's OOC.

I have to say I'm surprised by this stance, Rodj.