Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Sakaane Eionell]

I expect CONCORD generally has very little authority over what goes on on planets.

Maybe. But there is this (emphasis mine):

The DED’s jurisdiction is limited to space and this has often put severe limits on their operations. However, in recent years, the DED has increasingly been authorized to operate in stations and on planets, and the result is a much more effective fight against organized crime. But even if the DED is getting more and more efficient in dealing with criminals within empire borders, they have yet to gain any significant foothold in the outer regions where empire presence is almost non-existent. Also, the power of DED, and in fact the whole of CONCORD, differs widely between the various empires, or even between different regions of any one empire, as local governments or magnates often oppose strong DED presence for one reason or another.

To me this says two things: 1. DED tries to do its job wherever capsuleers may go, and are slowly gaining the ability to do so, but, 2. the local governments still resist such intrusions (maybe) because they already have their own police forces available. This might be akin to a city police force having to put up with the FBI coming in to "take over the investigation".

[Kiki Truzhari]

Are capsuleers above the law? In short, seems the answer is "no".
Can capsuleers clone when outside the pod? Seems mixed?
Can ground entities really do a whole lot to a capsuleer that dosent do something as dumb as what Ava did? Not really.

My take on these:

Capsuleers are not above the law, but getting a capsuleer to answer for their crimes can be quite hard unless the capsuleer does something stupid or wants to be caught. All they need to do is stay in space and on the international areas of the stations.

Capsuleers can't clone outside the pod. (I know different people play this in various ways. The people I mostly play with generally play that backup clones do not exist or at least are not available to average capsuleers. CCP has said they intend to clarify this in the future.)

I am not familiar with the details of "Ava arrest" storyline so no comment about it.

I have played Minmatar capsuleers on Amarr planets can get arrested, implants surgically removed, enslaved and killed (and so on) with only somewhat weightier pretexts than non-capsuleer Minmatar on those planets. It might (or might not) be borderline illegal, but who will stop them? The Speakers of Truth?

Of course the press will make noise if they learn of it. Amarr press will likely approve: "A terrorist converted and now willingly serving God!". Minmatar press will disapprove: "Freedom fighter wrongfully detained!". CONCORD might go: "Oops. Well, she doesn't have implants any more. Not a capsuleer, not our problem."

I rather liked both your posts Isobel, the only difference of opinion we'd have would be the cloning outside the pod thing. I know the 'softclone' thing tends to be a point of contention. Among Rpers, but it definitely makes me feel more comfortable to have that safety net, because I feel like I can let something happen to the character without getting all butthurt OOCly. I try to keep it balanced though, when a softclone is activated, you lose all your memories up until the last time you backed up the softclone (which would be the last time you updated you clone in station) Unless you can get the memorycell from your old body, at which point, you could have all your memories back.

[Nmaro Makari]

Just my two pennies:

Planetside, CONCORD can't do jack to protect you, for a few simple reasons.

1) CONCORD is a space based entity, it does not posses vast reserves of ground troops, just a handful of shipboard marines.

2) Therefore, when capsuleer matters go planetside, they can spout rhetoric, and do the diplomatic thing, but they cant really bring the empires to heel because they simply lack military power.

3) When capsuleers go planetside (and they do go planetside, regardless of anyones protesting about how we're demi-gods and dont need to) they do not wander around with massive neon signs that say "HELLO! MASS MURDERING DEMI-GOD CAPSULEER HERE!". Why, because they'd get lynched, kidnapped or whatever. i.e. they do not wander around flashing CONCORD protection documents or anything to give away who they are.

4) There are definitely more important things to the empires than obeying CONCORD directives. If they want a capsuleer badly enough, they will go and take them when the opportunity arises.

So in this instance, i.e. a high profile member of the opposing militia coming down to the planet, I think its perfectly reasonable to say that the empire would be all "screw you CONCORD" at this point.

[Nmaro Makari]

Also consider what would happen if local law enforcement just let everyone who said "whoah, did you know I'm a capsuleer" off the hook?

Since we're a few hundred thousand among hundreds of billions, The law enforcement is bound to be a tad sceptical when someone tries to claim immunity due to being a capsuleer

[Malcolm Khross]

See, I agree with N'maro here mostly. I've always sort of pictured it like the various branches of law enforcement here in the US.

You have the city police which only have jurisdiction to arrest, give citations and patrol around the city.
You have the State Troopers which have the above jurisdictions throughout the state, enforcing the local laws.
Then you have federal agencies that sort of operate on a 'special clearance' level and can intervene with either of the above jurisdictions in matters that pertain to them, such as the FBI, the Secret Service, etc.

CONCORD in this case would essentially leave jurisdiction matters on planets to the local governments of those planets/empires. And unless they stepped in, flashed their 'special clearance' badges and took the capsuleer into their own custody, the local government does whatever it wants to.

And I really don't see CONCORD going out of its way to intervene on a capsuleer's behalf unless it's something extremely important or they're paid off.

[Vincent Pryce]

Also consider what would happen if local law enforcement just let everyone who said "whoah, did you know I'm a capsuleer" off the hook?

Since we're a few hundred thousand among hundreds of billions, The law enforcement is bound to be a tad sceptical when someone tries to claim immunity due to being a capsuleer

The implant jacks on your back tend to lend a bit more credibility to your claim.

[Nmaro Makari]

Also consider what would happen if local law enforcement just let everyone who said "whoah, did you know I'm a capsuleer" off the hook?

Since we're a few hundred thousand among hundreds of billions, The law enforcement is bound to be a tad sceptical when someone tries to claim immunity due to being a capsuleer

The implant jacks on your back tend to lend a bit more credibility to your claim.

In an age where every man and his dog seems to have access to implants, not to mention half decent cosmetic surgery, I'd still say the average overworked, underpaid officer of the law isnt going to stop around to have an "are you who you say you are debate". Plus, by dint of the fact you're needing to prove you're a capsuleer, we can presume you've broken the law, therefore it doesnt really matter if you're a capsuleer, becuase you're out of pod and have broken the law.

[Ryven Krennel]

I suspect when they run your ID, capsuleer shows up.  I also see CONCORD as having jurisdiction over eggers and most locals would want nothing to do with it.

[Nmaro Makari]

Again, billions of people in each Empire, it is highly unlikely that anywhere other than heavily populous have access to a sophisticated database containing that much detail.

Also, would they really run ID checks outside of urban centres? I mean perhaps in the state where things are more compacted, or in the fed where things are high tech, but really, how high tech and thorough do you expect the Republic or Empire's version of the local "bobby" or state trooper to be? Considering there are many backwater areas as well where the only manifestation of the law might be some corrupt local magistrate with no care to ask who you are.
Plus its not like they have instant access to CONCORD databases.

[lallara zhuul]

Memorycell?

wat?

[Verone]

Also consider what would happen if local law enforcement just let everyone who said "whoah, did you know I'm a capsuleer" off the hook?

Since we're a few hundred thousand among hundreds of billions, The law enforcement is bound to be a tad sceptical when someone tries to claim immunity due to being a capsuleer

The implant jacks on your back tend to lend a bit more credibility to your claim.

In an age where every man and his dog seems to have access to implants, not to mention half decent cosmetic surgery, I'd still say the average overworked, underpaid officer of the law isnt going to stop around to have an "are you who you say you are debate". Plus, by dint of the fact you're needing to prove you're a capsuleer, we can presume you've broken the law, therefore it doesnt really matter if you're a capsuleer, becuase you're out of pod and have broken the law.

Capsuleer implants are pretty distinctive and tend to stand out from anything else on the market. Just sayin'.

 

[Matariki Rain]

3) When capsuleers go planetside (and they do go planetside, regardless of anyones protesting about how we're demi-gods and dont need to) [....]

Do you have any evidence of this, or is this an assertion of your own?

Serious question. I play that Mata spends time with her kin planetside, but there are times when I read what comes out of CCP and think that that's not what they intend.

(I gave an only-half-joking list of reasons why we might not interact with planets a while back, and expanded on that later.)

[Ryven Krennel]

When you get arrested, even in small town nowhere USA, law enforcement runs ID.  It is beyond ludicrous to think that there is FTL comms and instantaneous travel across light years, and flash copying of neural pathways, but no database to run an ID through.  That's silly.

[Nmaro Makari]

When you get arrested, even in small town nowhere USA, law enforcement runs ID.  It is beyond ludicrous to think that there is FTL comms and instantaneous travel across light years, and flash copying of neural pathways, but no database to run an ID through.  That's silly.

Oke doke, lets do some simple number crunching.

In the US there are 300 million + people. These people are spread out over 50 states and counties within the states, creating at least 3 different stages of administration. Worldwide, there are 6 Billion + humans spread across approximately 190 countries. This create the first issue, while you in the US have these national databases, effective police and keep files on citizens, do they even come close to this in place like Madagascar? Law enforcement there is as corrupt as it gets, and administration is beyond chaos. On a highly populated terrestrial planet, maybe you'd get the US style treatment, but on some backwater rock with some local idiot as the law?

Now lets consider the world of EVE. Instead of 6 billion, you're dealing with Hundreds of billions, most residing in four empires, each of which inhabits hundreds of planets, on each planet, depending on population, there would be regions, sub-regions, districts, housing any number of people. The numbers alone make a single database for each empire simply impractical. At most, for non-capsuleers you'd have a regional database in the most populous regions. Perhaps a single database for the most wanted, but not for every local with a DUI. Certainly for capsuleers, this database would be separate, i.e. not on the standard checklist for law enforcement. Even with the advanced tech, the sheer numbers make keeping tabs on ALL citizens impractical and unlikely. CONCORD, yes because theres only a few thousand of us.

I mean, this is a world where humanity is spread over every planet from massive industiral worlds of billions to worlds with settlements of just a few hundred. Its simply not possible equate it to the world we live in now. There are links, but nothing to equate with.

It is beyond ludicrous to think that our models of government and law enforcement could possibly work over an area as massive and diverse as EVE. On single planets, maybe. Solar sytems at a stretch. But over a whole Empire? That's silly.

[Nmaro Makari]

Also consider what would happen if local law enforcement just let everyone who said "whoah, did you know I'm a capsuleer" off the hook?

Since we're a few hundred thousand among hundreds of billions, The law enforcement is bound to be a tad sceptical when someone tries to claim immunity due to being a capsuleer

The implant jacks on your back tend to lend a bit more credibility to your claim.

In an age where every man and his dog seems to have access to implants, not to mention half decent cosmetic surgery, I'd still say the average overworked, underpaid officer of the law isnt going to stop around to have an "are you who you say you are debate". Plus, by dint of the fact you're needing to prove you're a capsuleer, we can presume you've broken the law, therefore it doesnt really matter if you're a capsuleer, becuase you're out of pod and have broken the law.

Capsuleer implants are pretty distinctive and tend to stand out from anything else on the market. Just sayin'.

 

Mostly I meant someone could graft some metal that looks like the capsule jacks on to you, and security would be none the wiser. Plus, not all law enforcement would be polite enough to give you a neck inspection prior to putting you in a cell.

Fair point though, on a more advanced planet that would lead to your release pretty sharpish. Whenever they do a medical test, anyway.