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Author Topic: Mercury, PF, and crowdsourcing  (Read 2883 times)

Matariki Rain

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Mercury, PF, and crowdsourcing
« on: 13 Jul 2011, 17:33 »

I keep wondering if there's a way to crowdsource the collation and smoothing of PF without making us all part of Mercury.

That does come back to our good will -- a little strained of late -- and their willingness and ability to coordinate volunteers, even if that's the loose coordination of having a noticeboard of "topics we're focusing on" and allowing/encouraging us to drag out the relevant pieces of "world" and have threads where we discuss theories.

I´m afraid this work cannot be outsourced like that.
But i don´t see why you all cannot join Mercury if you pass the application process. I am looking for good writers and god knows they are hard to find. So if you would like to work on the EVE Fiction in a way you cannot anywhere else then please do apply for Mercury on the EVE website.

Could I check with you whether we're talking about the same thing?

I'm thinking about the world-reconciliation project described in EON's "New World Order" article and given as the reason for largely transferring ISD resources away from generating news items. From the EON article I'd formed the impression that a lot of the initial work was collating information on particular topics from current PF, and that there was quite a lot of that to do. Since I see the "collator" and "first-level commentator" roles as requiring different skills and time commitment to the role of being a fiction-writer for Mercury, this is the type of work that I think might be crowdsourced to the parts of your community that have an interest in it. You'd then pull it in-house for final commentary and decisions, ideally you'd deliver those decisions (I'd love patch notes), and we'd all get to write fiction based on our improved knowledge of how things work.

Doing that first stage in public means that more of us are likely to be involved, adding our efforts to the topics we know and care about and keeping an eye on each other's contributions to help ensure they don't miss anything of importance. It's a blend of built-in peer review and "given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow". It could also significantly increase the amount of person-time resource you have available to you to do something which quite a few of us think is valuable and which quite a few of us do anyway for topics which interest us.

There are reasons some of us might not want to be in Mercury: time, focus, or simply not wanting the stresses of being under NDA to affect the immediacy and honesty of relationships with the other people we play with. There's no need for the people doing the harvesting, gathering and initial commenting to be under NDA; there most probably is for the people doing the second-level commenting, decision-making and writing of the final ruling.

As an example, last October Elsebeth Rhiannon produced a compilation of Prime fiction on clones and mind scans. No need for Mercury or NDA -- although having searchable electronic versions of the novels would have been nice -- and some significant work got done, commented on, and added to through public discussion.

In response to Elsebeth's compilation, Dropbear stated that the storyline team wasn't at that time 100% clear or agreed about how cloning worked. We hoped, and still hope, to hear a canon view of whatever you decide.

This matters, not only for our own play and stories but because it affects what's plausible in our shared world, including in your storylines. There is, for instance, a theory of memetic infection -- of infomorphs having their consciousnesses altered by the addition of information viruses when they're transmitted as pure data upon death or clone-jump. That theory is plausible only if the "transmit" theory of consciousness transfer is true. If the "quantum entanglement" theory is true, that's a mistaken dead end on the path of EVE knowledge, or at least needs a serious re-work to nudge our quanta around. We, as pilots, should know the mechanism underpinning this, and therefore be able to make reasonable judgements about the plausibility of theories which extrapolate from it.

Since it's been around nine months without a response on this rather significant piece of PF, I'm guessing that you're having issues with resourcing, decision-making and sign-off, or focus priorities. If the issues are resourcing or focus priorities, I think crowd-sourcing could help. That still leaves you with responsibility for decision-making and sign-off... and letting us know the results.

Can we help?
« Last Edit: 13 Jul 2011, 21:36 by Misan »
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Galen.

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Re: Mercury, PF, and crowdsourcing
« Reply #1 on: 14 Jul 2011, 05:23 »

I think we are in fact talking about the same thing..

But i have to digress a little first:
Mercury writers are a special breed. An insane amount of fiction knowledge paired with the ability to expand on that knowledge and put it in words. Mercury was formed out of the ashes of Aurora as a small team that can work very closely with CCP in expanding the fiction of EVE and, as a volunteer team, can more easily recruit and bring in new people.
Because for canon EVE fiction there is only one source and that is CCP.
The reason we were given the collator role is because the work needed this knowledge i mentioned earlier and also quite simply because we were available. A lot of this work has been done already and we are already busy with the next chapter in that project: the writing.
All of this work, be it collating or writing, requires a very close working relationship with the CCP Team and that needs the membership in Mercury.

So, in short: i´d very much like you all to help. It is the reason i posted here in the first place. But i also need you to be in Mercury for that. There´s fun to be had in this, trust me.
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Ken

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Re: Mercury, PF, and crowdsourcing
« Reply #2 on: 14 Jul 2011, 05:32 »

So, in short: i´d very much like you all to help. It is the reason i posted here in the first place. But i also need you to be in Mercury for that. There´s fun to be had in this, trust me.

Interesting.  In the past several people from these forums (very active in RP and fanon writing) have applied to Mercury using the application function on the website and then received absolutely zero response from CCP.  Not even a polite "no, thank you" or "we aren't looking for people right now".
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Galen.

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Re: Mercury, PF, and crowdsourcing
« Reply #3 on: 14 Jul 2011, 05:38 »

The volunteer who handled the whole application process went inactive due to life so we have been catching up ever since. We also process applications in batches and when we do every application receives an answer. The answer might not be within a week or a month but there will be one.
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Morwen Lagann

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Re: Mercury, PF, and crowdsourcing
« Reply #4 on: 14 Jul 2011, 08:04 »

Also, I believe there's an NDA of some sort, where if you're a member of ISD you're not supposed to talk about it - so perhaps that's also at play, Ken? :)
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Ken

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Re: Mercury, PF, and crowdsourcing
« Reply #5 on: 14 Jul 2011, 08:16 »

In some cases, possibly, but I was speaking from personal experience in addition to what others have related to me.
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Galen.

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Re: Mercury, PF, and crowdsourcing
« Reply #6 on: 14 Jul 2011, 10:46 »

Send me your name and the account name you applied with and i´ll check it out.
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Matariki Rain

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Re: Mercury, PF, and crowdsourcing
« Reply #7 on: 14 Jul 2011, 11:29 »

The reason we were given the collator role is because the work needed this knowledge i mentioned earlier and also quite simply because we were available. A lot of this work has been done already and we are already busy with the next chapter in that project: the writing.

If you've done a lot of the collation work already and are already busy with the writing, could you please share the results of the decisions which I'm expecting -- possibly incorrectly -- happen between those two phases as you reconciled the "facts"? I don't need chronicles or beautifully-crafted fiction, I'd just like to know:
  • how consciousness transfers on pod-death or clone jump
  • whether back-ups of consciousness are possible
  • whether it's at all necessary for a meat-puppet to be doped with the wearer's DNA, and how long that DNA then takes to propagate fully
  • what aspects of Minmatar culture survived an "occupation" by the Amarrians that was comprehensive enough to break the tradition of tattooing, and how Minmatar history looks since the Minmatar retcon that there were still militarily-active non-Thukker free Minmatar during (throughout?) the time of enslavement
  • whether it takes a long time to get between space and planets, or whether it takes the time it takes a Sansha dropship.
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Galen.

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Re: Mercury, PF, and crowdsourcing
« Reply #8 on: 14 Jul 2011, 11:51 »

I´m very sorry, but i´m not here for that.

Your initial post seemed like a good chance to extend an invitation to join Mercury, to an audience that is very much the target of my recruiting efforts. Many of you have just the skills needed for Mercury and i could not pass up this chance.

I can understand the wish to get answers but i´m afraid i´m not at liberty to help you there.
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Matariki Rain

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Re: Mercury, PF, and crowdsourcing
« Reply #9 on: 14 Jul 2011, 12:20 »

I´m very sorry, but i´m not here for that.

Your initial post seemed like a good chance to extend an invitation to join Mercury, to an audience that is very much the target of my recruiting efforts. Many of you have just the skills needed for Mercury and i could not pass up this chance.

I can understand the wish to get answers but i´m afraid i´m not at liberty to help you there.

I'll clarify that I didn't necessarily expect answers from you here and now, but that those are questions that I'd very much like answered as part of your project.

What will be the process for communicating information about the EVE "world"? How will we learn about the things you've decided?
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Saikoyu

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Re: Mercury, PF, and crowdsourcing
« Reply #10 on: 14 Jul 2011, 12:22 »

Well, Mata sort of asked this, but I'll put my own spin on it.  If one joined Mercury, would that person be able to say "I want to write wiki style entries about common history and knowledge items."  and then would that person be able to do that, so that there will be the be all end all artical about clones, and about the history of the empires, and about what this planet is like.  I trust you to do stories, and do them well, but I want common facts that we don't have to dig though narative to get a vague clue about, and I think a fair number of people here would agree.
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Arkady Sadik

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Re: Mercury, PF, and crowdsourcing
« Reply #11 on: 19 Jul 2011, 15:03 »

Semi on-topic, a bit of rambling :-)

Please do not provide "facts" about the distant past. Facts (IC or OOC) destroy good RP possibilities by removing (believable) disagreements. Provide facts only for current-time (or very recent history), checkable truth. Like, "are there backup clones" and such. Don't tell us how The Original Minmatar Culture worked. Instead, tell us how the Amarr say it worked, how the Minmatar say it worked, and how the "independent" Gallente university says it worked. (They're all wrong of course.)

But for the facts that a character would simply know, it would be great to have an easily-accessible information source.

Rambling ends, thanks for reading! ;-)
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Isobel Mitar

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Re: Mercury, PF, and crowdsourcing
« Reply #12 on: 19 Jul 2011, 15:10 »

The reason we were given the collator role is because the work needed this knowledge i mentioned earlier and also quite simply because we were available. A lot of this work has been done already and we are already busy with the next chapter in that project: the writing.
All of this work, be it collating or writing, requires a very close working relationship with the CCP Team and that needs the membership in Mercury.

May I voice the hope this writing takes the form of two different kinds of pieces?

The first would be a basic set of facts, written as a datasheet or a handbook. I feel having such would help both players (in answering unambiguously basic questions) and the writers & CCP by making writing stories and adding to the world easier when important facts about how the world works are not scattered around a multitude of fiction pieces.

The second kind of pieces would be fiction, stories, chronicles to present moods, atmosphere, small details, viewpoints from inside the world. Writing intended to pull the reader into a story and communicate the feel of Eve universe.
« Last Edit: 19 Jul 2011, 15:12 by Isobel Mitar »
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