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[Mizhara]

Your perspective, as several of us have noted, has led you not to "observe" almost every single issue that came up, bar one. I recommend a bit more care taken in reading what others have said to you.

I've observed them all, Casiella. I've just refuted the validity of most of them. The majority of the outrage was about P2W possibilities, which turned out to have never existed in the first place. Then came the prices and low selection in the NeX store. The few valid concerns with the expansion were almost drowned out and rarely surfaced from beneath the waves of bandwagoneering ragers that pulled tiny tidbits out of context and blew them way out of proportion.

Again, go hit the complaint threads and start counting, then tell me I'm wrong.

Misan: My apologies. I didn't report it since it didn't break the rules, but came very close. I'll stick to clicking the report button in the future.

[Revan Neferis]

Your perspective, as several of us have noted, has led you not to "observe" almost every single issue that came up, bar one. I recommend a bit more care taken in reading what others have said to you.

I've observed them all, Casiella. I've just refuted the validity of most of them. The majority of the outrage was about P2W possibilities, which turned out to have never existed in the first place. Then came the prices and low selection in the NeX store. The few valid concerns with the expansion were almost drowned out and rarely surfaced from beneath the waves of bandwagoneering ragers that pulled tiny tidbits out of context and blew them way out of proportion.

Again, go hit the complaint threads and start counting, then tell me I'm wrong.

By the number of times we have repeated this i guess its fair to state that unless we start doing anti ccp comments and shooting monuments and spamming forums with a thousand ragequit threads, we wont be " observant enough ' to their taste . 

[Revan Neferis]

That's a bit subjective because it depends of ccp's own market research on the actual playerbase condition x what is perceived as cheap by each one of us.
I can only give my own references on this regard, if you ask me, in terms of isk 1.4 billion is already cheap. 

1.4 bil isn't cheap for me, its more isk then I've ever had in my wallet at one time, and I think that goes for a lot of people. Yes, people will buy things if they're in that price bracket, but again, my fear is that if a monocle is that much, then what's a corset going to cost? a dress? a new tattoo? Maybe you can afford it, but I can't, and so I, and a lot of other people, are completely cut off from any and all content coming out of the virtual store.

As pointed elsewhere 1.4 bill isk isnt really any value of importance, considering that any veteran player doing whatever you fancy can acquire that in a blink of an eye. New players , different story and i already discussed this on my previous post.
So yes it all depends of which public ccp is aiming to reach with the NEX store but its unlikely they will do something completely foreign and away from reasonable player's possibility to acquire if they so wish after all, you can buy from other players with isk.

[Casiella]

By the number of times we have repeated this i guess its fair to state that unless we start doing anti ccp comments and shooting monuments and spamming forums with a thousand ragequit threads, we wont be " observant enough ' to their taste . 

Not at all. I understand quite well that reasonable, well-meaning people can reach different conclusions and choose different courses of action. I understand that some players decided that the level of information did not reach their threshold for concern, or that specific issues such as CQ performance or tone of communications did not affect them for whatever reason. I respect that, and in some cases (CQ performance) share the conclusion. CQ runs just fine on my system, including with two simultaneous clients, so I never lambasted CCP for that issue.

That differs significantly from claiming that the set of those who have chosen differently are, to use a common term in the US, "single issue voters", and that their reasons for having reached their conclusions have always been invalid. The spectrum of issues discussed in today's statements should make it clear that neither of those claims hold any water.

[Revan Neferis]

By the number of times we have repeated this i guess its fair to state that unless we start doing anti ccp comments and shooting monuments and spamming forums with a thousand ragequit threads, we wont be " observant enough ' to their taste . 

Not at all. I understand quite well that reasonable, well-meaning people can reach different conclusions and choose different courses of action. I understand that some players decided that the level of information did not reach their threshold for concern, or that specific issues such as CQ performance or tone of communications did not affect them for whatever reason. I respect that, and in some cases (CQ performance) share the conclusion. CQ runs just fine on my system, including with two simultaneous clients, so I never lambasted CCP for that issue.

That differs significantly from claiming that the set of those who have chosen differently are, to use a common term in the US, "single issue voters", and that their reasons for having reached their conclusions have always been invalid. The spectrum of issues discussed in today's statements should make it clear that neither of those claims hold any water.

If the first lines of your statment is actually what you think, I believe you should reconsider your words here:

http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?action=post;quote=35703;topic=2529.30;last_msg=35712

They are quite contradicting, specially for a moderator participating on a thread where different opinions has been clearly stated. The mere fact that "observing " and " non observing " categories were allowed to take place here shows that you are inclined to defend your side of the argument even in detriment of some counterparts.
And no, again I disagree with your interpretation of what has been stated several times by Miz and myself. Our statements are clearly directed to the point of how the community perceived actions are not adequate to the actual situation in question, and how the really serious concerns were addressed not by screams and shoutings and rage but by mature, direct and less panicked unrealistic ways.

[Casiella]

I think your link may not go where you intended?

And for the record, I've already completely recused myself from any moderation in this thread.

[Revan Neferis]

I think your link may not go where you intended?

I think it didnt. here is the copy of what i wanted to link:


Quote from: Casiella on Today at 06:36 PM

"Your perspective, as several of us have noted, has led you not to "observe" almost every single issue that came up, bar one. I recommend a bit more care taken in reading what others have said to you."

(which PS: wasnt addressed to me but I find it quite biased in such terms against your own previous words.)

And for the record, I've already completely recused myself from any moderation in this thread.

Not surprising, would be really strange otherwise.

[Casiella]

I stand by both of those statements, actually, since the issues brought up at the beginning of the thread reference people allegedly having "a freakin' hissyfit over absolutely nothing." You're focusing on the first part ("hissyfit"), while several of us take issue with the second part ("absolutely nothing"). Mizhara goes on to focus exclusively on "those that had a massive ragefit over that internal brainstorming session," again ignoring all the other issues that came up.

I do agree that quite a lot of the raegfaec posts on the forums and elsewhere went far beyond what any reasonable person should post. The trolls in the thread wishing CCP Pann's little girl well struck me as particularly shameful and I desperately hope that some of them got permabans.

[Revan Neferis]

I stand by both of those statements, actually, since the issues brought up at the beginning of the thread reference people allegedly having "a freakin' hissyfit over absolutely nothing." You're focusing on the first part ("hissyfit"), while several of us take issue with the second part ("absolutely nothing"). Mizhara goes on to focus exclusively on "those that had a massive ragefit over that internal brainstorming session," again ignoring all the other issues that came up.

I think that there is little room for doubt about what was the focus of the discussions here concerning disproportional overreaction of some forum spammers  x actual realistic concerns that should have been addressed in a less "hyssyfit " style.

I do agree that quite a lot of the raegfaec posts on the forums and elsewhere went far beyond what any reasonable person should post. The trolls in the thread wishing CCP Pann's little girl well struck me as particularly shameful and I desperately home that some of them got permabans.

Absolutely.

[Senn Typhos]

There is no point discussing that aspect Senn. Just ignore it and move on.

Or make more constructive posts like this of course.
On a side note, there isnt really anything to be discussed, end of the day there will be people who finds screaming and shouting and shaving avatar heads something quite hot. 
Your protest was at least a bit original and didnt include forum posts with caps on and profane words. So there was a single plus there a measure of pleasure and entertainment blended with it all.

As I said, there's no way to be constructive about it.

The last thread you started on this inferred, even in the title, that people are "overreacting." So far, your commentary on this event has placed you in the crowd of people who truly think the problem was that CCP was selling a monocle for $70. If you think that's the most obscene thing I've seen an MMO company do, you're wrong. You, and the majority of the crowd speaking in CCP's favor - or at least speaking to the effect of this being "not a big deal," don't see, or more likely just refuse to see, past the surface issue.

If it doesn't concern you, even the slightest, that CCP would devote patch downtime and company resources to making a solitary, rusty room that burns out people's graphics cards, engineering an entirely new monetary system with a brand new currency for the SOLE purpose of buying $25 imaginary shirts, and then respond to player concerns with a dev blog that addresses NONE of the valid issues players have put forward, then I just honestly don't know what to say.

There's zero chance of the "unsubbing" crowd and the "no big deal" crowd reaching a stasis issue.

Love the dismissive attitude, by the way. Really drives the point home that you'd rather feign indifference than consider the ramifications of CCP's mentality.

[Revan Neferis]

As I said, there's no way to be constructive about it.

Then your point for posting is being non constructive?

The last thread you started on this inferred, even in the title, that people are "overreacting." So far, your commentary on this event has placed you in the crowd of people who truly think the problem was that CCP was selling a monocle for $70.

If you read posts on this very thread you'll see, this was answered already.

You, and the majority of the crowd speaking in CCP's favor - or at least speaking to the effect of this being "not a big deal," don't see, or more likely just refuse to see, past the surface issue.

Gets back to the the very posts between myself Miz and Cassiela. Best you read that than me retyping all over again.

If it doesn't concern you, even the slightest, that CCP would devote patch downtime and company resources to making a solitary, rusty room that burns out people's graphics cards, engineering an entirely new monetary system with a brand new currency for the SOLE purpose of buying $25 imaginary shirts, and then respond to player concerns with a dev blog that addresses NONE of the valid issues players have put forward, then I just honestly don't know what to say.

Read this thread.

Love the dismissive attitude, by the way. Really drives the point home that you'd rather feign indifference than consider the ramifications of CCP's mentality.

Doctor heal thyself? 

[Casiella]

Revan, as you clearly don't intend to engage constructively with criticisms of your and Mizhara's approach, I see no use in my continuing with this discussion.

[Revan Neferis]

Revan, as you clearly don't intend to engage constructively with criticisms of your and Mizhara's approach, I see no use in my continuing with this discussion.

I dont believe that you have engaged constructively to any points made against your views either so I'm quite happy on discontinuing this discussion with you.  There is nothing to be said between us that haven't been said already along the previous posts.
And for all that matters, ccp blog and the current reality has been stated, there will be those unhappy who will finally quit and those who are happy will stay and enjoy the game. It's business as usual for all parts concerned.

[GoGo Yubari]

They addressed my concerns. Why wouldn't I be re-subbing? I haven't yet though, but that's just because I re-evaluate each time I'm re-subbing my subscription anyway.

And as for "much ado about nothing"... lol, I think not. The community reaction no doubt gave CCP something to consider.

[Vikarion]

My entire concern with CCP was the possible implementation of pay-to-win items. And, before that is dismissed out of hand, keep in mind CCP had already promised us that they would never implement such items.

Imagine, if you will, that you are the leader of a sovereign nation, and you sign a peace treaty with another nation. They vow never to attack or harm you, your citizens, or your military personnel. Then imagine a secret document is leaked with the other nation's secretary of state, secretary of war, and several other high-placed officials discussing the best way to assassinate you and invade your country.

This analogy explains why so many people felt that CCP's newsletter was a breach of trust. It's not just that CCP was discussing something we didn't want, it was that some were advocating doing something they had promised to never do. While it falls short of a dead body and a smoking gun in evidentiary terms, it is not illogical to consider it evidence of a possible intention on CCP's part to, basically, betray the player base. 

We the player base are not, unlike law enforcement, required to wait for someone to actually do something we don't care for before we throw a "hissy fit" and bring out the handcuffs. We can make our viewpoints on the subject known, and loudly, if we so desire. Regrettably, some of us are more eloquent than others, but that doesn't mean the concerns themselves are without merit.