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[Kemekk]

I've been doing some research on various planet attributes such as temperature, gravity, escape velocity, etc., for both temperate and non-temperate planets, and a lot of them come within the habitable range for humans, some are even about 75% similar to earth's characteristics. The only problem is, a lot of these planets don't have lights on the dark side. Is it safe to assume that there are colonies on these planets, or should I just assume that there are none because of the lack of lights?

I've also found some interesting things in this research. The RP channel "Amarr Legio Basilica" is situated on the planet Oris in Amarr, but Oris's gravity is 3 times that of Earth's. It's still in the habitable zone, but everyone would be very heavy on Oris, and most residents would likely have knee problems.

[Matariki Rain]

I'm not quite sure how to put this, since I sound like a crotchety bittervet, but...

Data for planets appear to have been randomly generated. The visible skins for planets have radically changed once (along with their nature -- temperate to lava, for instance -- although with PI we don't expect that to happen again) and we expect that at least some planet-skins will change again (Matar is currently a water-world with islands, not at all like its descriptions, and this has been acknowledged as "off"). We don't know if the lights on the skins have any significance beyond random prettiness, despite Seri's mapping project.

I'd love it if planet mapping meant something, but it's on my list of things that are broken, so trying to extrapolate from them probably isn't the best idea.

[Kemekk]

So are you saying that the temperature, gravity, and visual skins should be considered as incorrect?

[Matariki Rain]

So are you saying that the temperature, gravity, and visual skins should be considered as incorrect?

Unless there's been a substantial change -- and I'm sure someone will tell me if there has been -- yes.

[Lyn Farel]

They have to be considered with a lot of caution, I think. When they introduced Tyrannis and PI, I do not know if you noticed but a lot of planets were simply changed to fit more accordingly to their type (before it was totally random, you had gas giants with very hot temperatures, etc). Now they are all more or less in line with their type.

But it is still not enough to fit to the PF in some particular cases.

[Arkady Sadik]

So are you saying that the temperature, gravity, and visual skins should be considered as incorrect?

The in-game statistics used to be widely off (temperate planets with near absolute zero temperatures, say), but those got somewhat fixed a while ago.

For example, Pator IV (Matar) is described as a lush paradise world in PF which has suffered somewhat under industrialization. The planetary data lists it with 306 K surface temperature (33 C) and a surface gravity of 9.87 m/s² (very close to earth's 9.81 m/s²). The other planets of PF look similarly "ok". So I would assume that at least the main PF planet numbers are roughly correct. (Obviously, those are averages, not "the whole planet looks like this"; Matar has vast somewhat cold tundras, for example.)

The Sansha incursions seemed to treat any temperate planet as inhabited.

If someone gives me a rough definition of when a planet counts as "habitable", I can provide per-faction counts (and lists, if wanted) of them ...

[Kemekk]

So are you saying that the temperature, gravity, and visual skins should be considered as incorrect?

The in-game statistics used to be widely off (temperate planets with near absolute zero temperatures, say), but those got somewhat fixed a while ago.

For example, Pator IV (Matar) is described as a lush paradise world in PF which has suffered somewhat under industrialization. The planetary data lists it with 306 K surface temperature (33 C) and a surface gravity of 9.87 m/s² (very close to earth's 9.81 m/s²). The other planets of PF look similarly "ok". So I would assume that at least the main PF planet numbers are roughly correct. (Obviously, those are averages, not "the whole planet looks like this"; Matar has vast somewhat cold tundras, for example.)

The Sansha incursions seemed to treat any temperate planet as inhabited.

If someone gives me a rough definition of when a planet counts as "habitable", I can provide per-faction counts (and lists, if wanted) of them ...

I made a personal list of each planet type (minus lava and plasma) near the Amarr system that have earth like conditions and should in theory be habitable. I have storm, ice, oceanic, barren, and temperate planets that all have similar gravity and temperature (with the exception of the ice planets being colder and barren planets being hotter, but not by enough to make them uninhabitable) to Earth, but if it's considered that the stats that show when you look at the planet's info are incorrect then all of that work seems like it was for nothing.

[Matariki Rain]

So are you saying that the temperature, gravity, and visual skins should be considered as incorrect?

The in-game statistics used to be widely off (temperate planets with near absolute zero temperatures, say), but those got somewhat fixed a while ago.

For example, Pator IV (Matar) is described as a lush paradise world in PF which has suffered somewhat under industrialization. The planetary data lists it with 306 K surface temperature (33 C) and a surface gravity of 9.87 m/s² (very close to earth's 9.81 m/s²). The other planets of PF look similarly "ok". So I would assume that at least the main PF planet numbers are roughly correct. (Obviously, those are averages, not "the whole planet looks like this"; Matar has vast somewhat cold tundras, for example.)

The Sansha incursions seemed to treat any temperate planet as inhabited.

If someone gives me a rough definition of when a planet counts as "habitable", I can provide per-faction counts (and lists, if wanted) of them ...

I made a personal list of each planet type (minus lava and plasma) near the Amarr system that have earth like conditions and should in theory be habitable. I have storm, ice, oceanic, barren, and temperate planets that all have similar gravity and temperature (with the exception of the ice planets being colder and barren planets being hotter, but not by enough to make them uninhabitable) to Earth, but if it's considered that the stats that show when you look at the planet's info are incorrect then all of that work seems like it was for nothing.

It sounds like you might be in a good position to tell us if the current numbers are reasonable, then.

They used to be way off, quite a few of them in the physically-impossible-or-really-unlikely realm (as I discovered a couple of years ago when I started doing what you're doing now, hence my current dose of :bittervet:, sorry). They've changed since then, and seem to have improved. Could you help us work out if they've improved enough to be useful?

We generally evaluate this type of data by checking whether it's:
- internally consistent: would having diameter X and gravity Y require that the planet be made of solid uranium?
- consistent with explicit canon: do the stats for and appearance of planets like Matar and Caldari Prime generally fit the descriptions we have of those planets?

My impression from comments here is that the current data isn't glaringly internally inconsistent like the old data was. I'd love more feedback on that.

We know that at least some of the planet-skin changes are inaccurate because they conflict with canonical information we have about those particular planets. That seems to suggest the application of skins to planets was random rather than intentional, meaning that the presence of darkside lights may well be random as well (or it could be the start of something "true", and those of us who got burnt last time might be missing out through allowing our bittervethood to prevail).

As for temperature information, I've had a quick scan for sources for Earth's average temperature and have come up with numbers in the 13-15 degrees Celsius range. We're very concerned about the effects an increase of 2-4 degrees might have here on Earth, so I'm going to take a punt and say that if Matar has an average temperature of 306K = 33 degrees C either it's no longer close to the paradisical planet it once was (possible: we know it was badly polluted), or the numbers are still wrong. (When the new-new planet skins came out some of us did make jokes that the reason Matar had been in the news because of pressure for real estate wasn't because of an influx of migrants but was due to flooding through global warming.)

[Arkady Sadik]

Using just temperature and surface gravity, assuming that "habitable" means a temperature between 250 K (-23 C) to 330 K (56 C) and a surface gravity between 3 m/s² (Mars has 3.7 m/s²) and 20 m/s² (a bit over twice earth's gravity of 9.81 m/s²), I get the following planet counts:

Code: [Select]

Amarr Empire               |  1835
 Gallente Federation        |   948
 Caldari State              |   865
 Minmatar Republic          |   740
 Ammatar Mandate            |   295
 Jove Empire                |   294
 Sansha's Nation            |   293
 The Syndicate              |   242
 Thukker Tribe              |   222
 Khanid Kingdom             |   220
 Guristas Pirates           |   213
 ORE                        |   143
 Angel Cartel               |   119
 The Blood Raider Covenant  |    35
 The Society                |    21
 CONCORD Assembly           |    20
 The Servant Sisters of EVE |    20
 Serpentis                  |    18
 Mordu's Legion Command     |    13
 The InterBus               |     4

(This includes high-, low and zero-sec)

As for planet types:

Code: [Select]

Planet (Barren)    |  2890
 Planet (Temperate) |  2367
 Planet (Oceanic)   |   429
 Planet (Ice)       |   390
 Planet (Storm)     |   333
 Planet (Plasma)    |    86
 Planet (Gas)       |    65

Looks to me as if the numbers I chose were a bit too nice. If anyone has better numbers, I can re-run this :-)

[Kemekk]

It sounds like you might be in a good position to tell us if the current numbers are reasonable, then.

They used to be way off, quite a few of them in the physically-impossible-or-really-unlikely realm (as I discovered a couple of years ago when I started doing what you're doing now, hence my current dose of :bittervet:, sorry). They've changed since then, and seem to have improved. Could you help us work out if they've improved enough to be useful?

We generally evaluate this type of data by checking whether it's:
- internally consistent: would having diameter X and gravity Y require that the planet be made of solid uranium?
- consistent with explicit canon: do the stats for and appearance of planets like Matar and Caldari Prime generally fit the descriptions we have those planets?

My impression from comments here is that the current data isn't glaringly internally inconsistent like the old data was. I'd love more feedback on that.

We know that at least some of the planet-skin changes are inaccurate because they conflict with canonical information we have about those particular planets. That seems to suggest the application of skins to planets was random rather than intentional, meaning that the presence of darkside lights may well be random as well (or it could be the start of something "true", and those of us who got burnt last time might be missing out through allowing our bittervethood to prevail).

As for temperature information, I've had a quick scan for sources for Earth's average temperature and have come up with numbers in the 13-15 degrees Celsius range. We're very concerned about the effects an increase of 2-4 degrees might have here on Earth, so I'm going to take a punt and say that if Matar has an average temperature of 306K = 33 degrees C either it's no longer close to the paradisical planet it once was (possible: we know it was badly polluted), or the numbers are still wrong. (When the new-new planet skins came out some of us did make jokes that the reason Matar had been in the news because of pressure for real estate wasn't because of an influx of migrants but was due to flooding through global warming.)

Well I've only been looking in the area around the Amarr system within 5 jumps, so my research is somewhat limited. In the Amarr system, Amarr Prime is within the habitable zone. It has a slightly greater gravity, slight greater temperature, but the pressure is under 1 kPa according to the planet statistics in game. I'm not entirely familiar with the canon behind Amarr Prime, but unless Amarrians have superior lungs, they'd have to all have to be wearing pressurized space suits or be indoors at all times. In other words, there are no beach resorts on Amarr Prime. I've already mentioned the problems with Oris (another inhabited planet in Amarr) previously in this thread, but because the gravity is three times that of Earth's, everyone would have super buff legs and severe knee problems. Not to mention the pressure on Oris is 10 times that of Earth's, but the planet is inhabited in lore and RPers have already used it as such.

Irnin V is also very earthlike, but suffers from the same pressure problems as Amarr Prime, though it does not have lights on the dark side of the planet. Some other planets with near Earth conditions include Kor-Azor Prime II (Oceanic), Leva XI (Storm) and Mahrokht XI (Ice), though all but Leva XI have pressure that would be too low for human life, too low for water to be in liquid form, and too low for the air to even be breathable.

In conclusion, I think most of the planet statistics appear accurate except for the pressure, for the sole reason that it would make Amarr Prime and Oris uninhabitable, which contradicts canon lore.

[Saikoyu]

From what I know about planets, the three main items for a planet to be habitable are temperature, pressure, and gravity, the first two must support liquid water (for humans anyway) and the last needs to be within spitting distance of 1 g, though one could debate this, and lower levels of gravity would not be bad for the human body, but would be bad at some point for keeping atmosphere in.  However, there are other things, which I don't remember if they are in the data dump, like orbital period, rotational period, and axial tilt.  If a planet has no orbital tilt, there will be no seasons for instance.  Also, if a planet rotates at the same rate it orbits its star, so that one side always faces the star, that side will become very hot, while the other side will become very cold. 

TLDR, found a nice article on wikipedia that seems to go over most of this here.

[Kemekk]

From what I know about planets, the three main items for a planet to be habitable are temperature, pressure, and gravity, the first two must support liquid water (for humans anyway) and the last needs to be within spitting distance of 1 g, though one could debate this, and lower levels of gravity would not be bad for the human body, but would be bad at some point for keeping atmosphere in.  However, there are other things, which I don't remember if they are in the data dump, like orbital period, rotational period, and axial tilt.  If a planet has no orbital tilt, there will be no seasons for instance.  Also, if a planet rotates at the same rate it orbits its star, so that one side always faces the star, that side will become very hot, while the other side will become very cold. 

TLDR, found a nice article on wikipedia that seems to go over most of this here.

Those are the basics I was going off of, but EVE doesn't list the rotational speeds of planets, only orbit period. Amarr Prime, for example, orbits the sun every 25 days, so that's a year on Amarr Prime. It doesn't say anything about rotation, but if it's anywhere near Earth's (probably isn't though) a day would be around a minute and a half long which is ridiculous for human life.

[Saikoyu]

An orbit in 25 DAYS???!?!?!??!?!

Assuming that's an earth day, that's insane.  Can you post or point me to all the knowns for Amarr prime and for that stat it orbits?  If there is enough information, I could probably figure out about what it should be.  Might as well use all that stuff I learned for something.

[Kemekk]

Temperature: 306 K
Orbit Radius: 0.465 AU
Eccentricity: 0.039
Mass: 5.8e+23 kg
Denity: 2614.1 g/cm^3
Surface Gravity: 10.4 m/s^2
Escape Velocity: 4.5 km/s
Orbit Period: 25 days
Pressure: Very low
Radius: 3,750 km

[Seriphyn]

I'll be upfront and say that I think there's really no use in looking at the scientific data of any of the planets.