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Author Topic: The executive caste  (Read 3994 times)

Senn Typhos

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Re: The executive caste
« Reply #15 on: 18 Jun 2011, 05:40 »

Apart from the personal repercussions and the change of officials there has yet to be a revolution that does away permanently with "the few ruling over the many" and "the few holding siginificant and inproportional wealth".

I don't know that there's been a revolution with the expressed purpose of doing away with the "few ruling over the many." Because the many ruling over the few is... a nonexistent system, really. Of course, 'Murica originating from a monarchy is a pretty substantial difference in governmental structure.

As for the wealth thing, well, not much you can do there unless you want to be a communist. And who wants that?
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An important reminder for Placid RPers

One day they woke me up
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Hamish Grayson

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Re: The executive caste
« Reply #16 on: 18 Jun 2011, 05:43 »


Is there a news article I missed or something in EA that states the CEP has submitted itself to the CPD?  Or are you assuming this to justify an IC position?
http://forum.battleclinic.com/index.php/topic,22092.msg106816.html#msg106816
Quote
The Sukuuvestaa, Nugoeihuvi, Wiyrkomi, Hyasyoda, CBD and Lai Dai mega-corporations today announced a breakthrough agreement with the newly formed Kaalakiota-Ytiri conglomerate. The new deal would give Tibus Heth's Caldari Providence Directorate direct access to most of the Caldari State's industrial base

This comes right after he said this about them on a cluster wide feed:

Quote
-"They can go to hell..."

- "...destroyed the Caldari soul, the Caldari conscience, the Caldari power"

- "...the greed of mega-corporations that killed him; the greed of sinister men that was killing Caldari Constructions."

-"...They have made us inferior to a lesser race"

- "...none...are greater than those committed by the elite, who still dare to call themselves Caldari."

- "Do not ever cross me. You will regret it."

----
I thought the CN was one of the organizations which Heth wasn't able to simply throw out the established hierarchy?

I was thinking more about this last night, and although she caved some to Heth during the  emancipation of Caldari Prime, Fleet Admiral Morda Engsten would probably have been able to shelter the CN from the purges.   


Also, what is "mid-grade" in a megacorporation?  Are these planetary site managers? constellation operations managers? Or are we talking about particular assembly line area shift managers?

I don’t think this article was written for the backstage crowd who understand that on a megacorprate scale 'middle managment' might run entire planets, and that – ‘mid-grade’ was meant to mean what it would mean to your average eve player.
« Last Edit: 18 Jun 2011, 06:02 by Hamish Grayson »
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Seriphyn

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orange

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Re: The executive caste
« Reply #18 on: 18 Jun 2011, 08:10 »


Is there a news article I missed or something in EA that states the CEP has submitted itself to the CPD?  Or are you assuming this to justify an IC position?
http://forum.battleclinic.com/index.php/topic,22092.msg106816.html#msg106816
Quote
The Sukuuvestaa, Nugoeihuvi, Wiyrkomi, Hyasyoda, CBD and Lai Dai mega-corporations today announced a breakthrough agreement with the newly formed Kaalakiota-Ytiri conglomerate. The new deal would give Tibus Heth's Caldari Providence Directorate direct access to most of the Caldari State's industrial base

Providing the CPD with direct access to most of the Caldari State's industrial base and the CEP submitting itself to the CPD are very different things in my opinion.  The CPD still has to work through the CEP to get approval for its State-wide initiatives (see the Quafe arc as an example).  Also access =/= control.
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Lydia Tishal

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Re: The executive caste
« Reply #19 on: 18 Jun 2011, 11:53 »

As far as the redistribution of wealth and authority goes, I think you have to be careful assuming it was equally applied across the whole of the State. It's one thing to say you're going to lay low a large group of powerful people. It's far more difficult to actually do it.
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Mithfindel

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Re: The executive caste
« Reply #20 on: 18 Jun 2011, 13:01 »

Heth has similar problems as the Emperor. He can, in theory, call policies. Others have agreed to implement those. However, if that happens is something Heth really can't see. The Epic Arc (Blood-Stained Stars) mentions a Nugoeihuvi guy who's got a command in the CN with his connections.

Now, on meritocracy: Aristocracies start as meritocracies (assumably the nobles were made nobles because of their services to the king & country). Once they've been going on for a while, they get degenerate and become nepotist oligarchies. I assume lots of support to Heth has come from Practical corps that likely saw profit in him. They've made sure their backs are covered. Possibly there's some tests that no doubt show that all managers in favour of their superiors have done well, and people they want to get rid of have been terrible. As for Liberals, I'd assume Hyasyoda's and Ishukone's own cultures act as insulation from Heth's thing. Good to remember that the Caldari corps are not all the same. Cultural change in KK isn't going to work all the same in Lai Dai or Wiyrkomi, since their corporate culture is different.

Heth still makes a nice puppet, where the managers can say that "yeah, we do this meritocratic thing too" and the wageslaves are happy. And they got Caldari Prime, too, which is a good reason to make the personnel work double as hard. Keep the State running!
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Chowda

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Re: The executive caste
« Reply #21 on: 20 Jun 2011, 09:33 »

Isn't this how every revolution has been justified. From the start of French Revolution, start of Soviet Union, United States of America etc...

While the actual change has been minimal.
Before you make broad generalizations, I suggest you read Edmund Burke's book Reflections on the Revolution in France.  Also, maybe some de Tocqueville evaluating America decades after the revolution.



 
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Chowda

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Re: The executive caste
« Reply #22 on: 20 Jun 2011, 10:06 »

http://forum.battleclinic.com/index.php/topic,20782.msg99869.html#msg99869

Quote from: Tibus Heth
The entire executive team of the previous regime has been removed from power...Effective immediately, the assets of mid-grade employees and up will be frozen and repossessed...The days of entitlement strictly for caste and class merits are over.

This is the policy the Heth inacted on his appointment as CEO of Caldari Constructions and I'd say it's a safe bet that he extended this policy to Kaalakiota; all of its subsidiaries and probably the Caldari Navy to an extent once the CEP submitted its self to the CPD.

This is something I think we missed because of the uproar over the Gallente Ex-pats being deported at the same time, but 'midgrade and up' of KK, it's subs and the CN probably constitutes millions of people across about a hundred planets and twice as many stations.

Thoughts?
The "class" and "caste" system basically developed through nepotism.  The cronyism was so engrained it was destroying the Caldari economy.  The "Caldari Way" as Heth saw it needed to be reimplemented by force.  The problem is he saw himself dying a martyr so the specifics were poorly thought out. 

That part of TEA can not be denied.  I do my best to block out the info drop narratives that baffled me greatly, but I can only do so with the ones that have zero effect on the world (like all the Gallente paradise planets, booming economy, no inflation issues :) ). 

I think this community in general has a hard time getting with the Heth thing.  Instead of trying to develop characters around it, nearly all serious Caldari rp'ers I see are either in direct opposition to, or in denial to his place and significance.  There's good reason for that, but I think it would be a lot less weird, and more interesting, if that wasn't the case.

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Mithfindel

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Re: The executive caste
« Reply #23 on: 20 Jun 2011, 12:08 »

I assume that the State rewards its managers. So, they have more money. For the colony- or station-bound managers it means that their lifestyle can be a bit more luxurious (but not too luxurious - after all, duty for the State and so on) and their children are likely better off than those children whose parents have smaller paychecks. Where the system breaks is when higher-level executives (and a lot of mid-level managers, too) can start to afford private education and, should they be so inclined, bribes to have their children in better positions. Even on the surface there might be relatively little corruption that can be measured (as in money or wealth changing hands) but a kind of network of favours in place. (I know a guy who knows a guy who...) You do look after your friends and you can trust they look after you.

As such, in most Caldari corporations, there is still very likely class separation due to managers having more personal wealth. In some corporations it might be different than wage - say, some people having access to a larger variety of goods - but in one way or another, the current executives are still in a better situation than their underlings. Apparently, in some corporations they had been able to establish a kind of a class system, where the children follow their parents. ("Mill town mentality") This is something that Heth worked to break. (With a rather hamfisted way, since there likely still those that were genuinely good at their jobs.) What we don't know is how many retained their pre-purge jobs and how many people were installed because they were Provist yes-men.

I cannot see the Caldari Navy being bossed around by Heth. Because if they bow down to one CEO, no matter how powerful, then SuVee and other corps could also expect to be able to use the Navy for their own ends. However, while there is documented nepotism in the Caldari Navy, I'd assume that the Navy - by the virtue of being one of the most esteemed institutions in the State - is able to get enough bright minds to keep the effects of nepotism relatively minor and mainly maintain meritocracy.

I can see several angles on the new regime. Naturally those who were backed by the "old money" and the network of formerly-high-level managers aren't going to be happy. Lots of feathers were ruffled for those who know what Heth did right was right, but it's wrong because they didn't get to do it. And then there are lots of possibilities to gain from the meritocracy by playing the game as intended. And even more by trying to fix the game, as the power vacuum created by fired and/or reassigned non-competent managers is being filled. Also, as the Caldari economy has been growing (due to increased consumption of the war machine), while this isn't a very sustainable path, fast growth always creates opportunities for those of enterprising, opportunistic mind and questionable morals.
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