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Author Topic: RP Societies  (Read 5837 times)

Kaleigh Doyle

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RP Societies
« on: 15 Jun 2011, 20:36 »

One of the more common lamentations I hear between roleplayers in EVE is the insular nature of certain sub-communities and individuals wishing they were part of faction x or corporation y so they could participate. There are some great roleplayers and characters out there that some of us may never have the opportunity to interact with, either because our own characters may never have the motivation to do so, or simply because we have our own agendas elsewhere. If you look, we have sub-communities everywhere: IGS has its players, the summit and other in-game channels have theirs, and corporations/alliances have them. Even the racing league has a sub-community. So my question is, do we as individuals who enjoy a deeper aspect of immersion to our EVE: Online experience ever create a subcommunity with individuals (that is, players- not characters) they like interacting with?

I'm sure many of you will say yes, and in my own (long and sordid) history I have created communities through events and in-game channel happenings that have had a ripple effect through out our own little worlds, but by and large this has been a surprising effect to a long chain of causes. However, I haven't (to my knowledge) seen any groups consciously organized with this purpose in mind. My point is, if we can create sub-communities through roleplay channels and factions/corporations, why not consciously seek out and recruit like-minded roleplayers that you get along with and form a group in that manner? What I'm suggesting is creating and actively maintaining roleplay 'troupes'.

I believe (conceptually) these 'troupes' could have a positive influence on the roleplay community at large in that it does not require people to be 'loyal' to factions or corporations ,ie. you don't need to leave yours or alter your character to interact, and still provide the free-form shinnanigans that we all enjoy to see unfold. And it doesn't have to be insular either; the goal is to get like-minded people together to say 'yes i'm part of this group and I like your ideas, consider me signed up', and even educate newer players who may not be 'down' with the cultural faux pas of roleplay interaction. Plus I feel these tighter-knit groups might engender some trust between its members and encourage a more cooperative playstyle rather than competitive god-mode like attempts at 'winning' roleplay that I often see. These sub-communities can also story-board (no this doesn't imply that the rp is pre-ordained) their ideas and bounce them off their fellow actors to either see if there's interest, or if someone can build on the concept until it hits the larger group; and the troupe can have multiple events happening at once.

So let me know what you think of this and maybe bounce some ideas back if you think this might be beneficial overall.
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Casiella

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Re: RP Societies
« Reply #1 on: 15 Jun 2011, 21:06 »

I've been mulling over an idea along these lines and starting to gather up some interested folks. That is, a specific implementation: a science RP "community", trying to bring in some players who don't typically interact with the groups that inhabit Backstage and the IGS and whatnot.
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Kaleigh Doyle

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Re: RP Societies
« Reply #2 on: 15 Jun 2011, 21:18 »

I've been mulling over an idea along these lines and starting to gather up some interested folks. That is, a specific implementation: a science RP "community", trying to bring in some players who don't typically interact with the groups that inhabit Backstage and the IGS and whatnot.

I think we've discussed this before..  ;)
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Casiella

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Re: RP Societies
« Reply #3 on: 15 Jun 2011, 21:38 »

Yeah, it's definitely a re-tread. Though a little broader base this time.
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Horatius Caul

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Re: RP Societies
« Reply #4 on: 16 Jun 2011, 01:07 »

I've been mulling over an idea along these lines and starting to gather up some interested folks. That is, a specific implementation: a science RP "community", trying to bring in some players who don't typically interact with the groups that inhabit Backstage and the IGS and whatnot.
Original idea do not steal!  ;)

Borza

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Re: RP Societies
« Reply #5 on: 16 Jun 2011, 05:28 »

I'm happy enough with my character being isolated from most other RP characters. It makes sense for him.

I've been mulling over an idea along these lines and starting to gather up some interested folks. That is, a specific implementation: a science RP "community", trying to bring in some players who don't typically interact with the groups that inhabit Backstage and the IGS and whatnot.

Sounds interesting, but I'm afraid I'd end up  :bash: too much at some of the 'RP science' :D
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Seriphyn

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Re: RP Societies
« Reply #6 on: 16 Jun 2011, 07:42 »

Yes. EVE RP is generally abymsal because EVE by its very nature is competitive and a pissing-contest. But then you get a bunch of like-minded players together and, bam, we have actual, nice RP with character-building and nice things going on.

However the other extreme is dollhousing it, where the RP makes no use of world-building or the fictional environment and everyone is playing themselves in happydappyland :X. If it were to be done, it should seize the fictional worlds offered, and be grounded directly in the universe, not in our fantasies.
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Kaleigh Doyle

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Re: RP Societies
« Reply #7 on: 16 Jun 2011, 08:44 »

Yes. EVE RP is generally abymsal because EVE by its very nature is competitive and a pissing-contest. But then you get a bunch of like-minded players together and, bam, we have actual, nice RP with character-building and nice things going on.
And there's nothing wrong with 'competitive' roleplay either, except when the matter isn't resolved in space and people aren't able to accept defeat for the sake of personal character growth.

Quote
However the other extreme is dollhousing it, where the RP makes no use of world-building or the fictional environment and everyone is playing themselves in happydappyland :X. If it were to be done, it should seize the fictional worlds offered, and be grounded directly in the universe, not in our fantasies.
Your commentary is directed at people's style of roleplay, Seriphyn. The problem with making judgement calls about who is RPing and who is fantasizing (as you put it) is conjecture at best. In other words, mind your business and roleplay your own character and stop worrying about how other people roleplay theirs. If you don't like roleplaying with them, then don't. That's the whole idea behind this; finding groups that share your viewpoint and building off that.
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Vieve

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Re: RP Societies
« Reply #8 on: 16 Jun 2011, 11:03 »

One of the more common lamentations I hear between roleplayers in EVE is the insular nature of certain sub-communities and individuals wishing they were part of faction x or corporation y so they could participate. There are some great roleplayers and characters out there that some of us may never have the opportunity to interact with, either because our own characters may never have the motivation to do so, or simply because we have our own agendas elsewhere.

This is the very reason I wound up with so damn many alts.
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Wanoah

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Re: RP Societies
« Reply #9 on: 16 Jun 2011, 13:19 »

There were a bunch of people I never got to play with / against. I settled for just enjoying the stuff they did from a distance.

The main problem with any alternatives is that to explore them, you're probably going to have to make new characters, and that is a major grind for most people. Once you're used to playing characters with 30M+ SP, it's an absolute bitch to make a new character from scratch and spend an hour trying to figure out how to fit a Rifter. I know some people enjoy this sort of thing (weirdos :P *runs away*) but I find it an exercise in frustration, personally.

Still, I think experienced players do tend to gravitate towards the people they like playing with and will bend existing characters as necessary to make that happen.
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Tamur

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Re: RP Societies
« Reply #10 on: 16 Jun 2011, 15:40 »

I'm kind of surprised to hear that this is not how is has been working, as having taste for similar RP sounds like a sensible starting point for collaboration.

Anyhow, this kind of project would be likely to be charged with the following accusations:
a) The faction loyalties and RP troupe connections are conflicting with each other.
b) The troupe is accused of elitism.

One way to counter these would be to keep the existence of the group unrevealed. In addition, the troupe would have to face the usual challenges:
c) If there were more than 4-5 members in the troupe, the risk of clique formation would rapidly increase as a consequence of group differentition.
d) In a few weeks there would be an OOC conflict, which would either split or disband the troupe, or lead to stable operation.
e) If the troupe became tightly-knit, adding more members to it would be increasingly difficult.

To my knowledge, these can be beaten only with an administrative structure, or by keeping the group very small. Maybe one of these phenomena a)-e) is the cause why we haven't seen any troupes around, unless they have been operating in the shadows.

This is the very reason I wound up with so damn many alts.
It's unfortunate how alt paranoia affects this option :cry:
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Matariki Rain

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Re: RP Societies
« Reply #11 on: 16 Jun 2011, 18:21 »

Kayleigh, could you please summarise what you'd like to see? I think I'm misreading your original post.

It seems to me that you're advocating forming gaming groups with players you like playing with (all good so far) and then having the existing characters of those players interact with each other regardless of their factional or other loyalties.

This is where I think I'm misunderstanding, because that sounds to me like allowing OOC motivations to drive IC actions in ways which go against established and internally-consistent IC motivations. This is generally considered a Bad Thing in the circles I RP with, so I'm curious about whether I've misunderstood, whether you think it's not a Bad Thing, or whether you'd get the troupe to develop truly plausible IC reasons why they might interact despite other history, loyalty and character.


--------
Sidebar: I was recently trying to think of an event which all or nearly-all of the characters I know in EVE might legitimately attend. The best idea I had was a conference/sales-convention about pod technology: somewhere to go to see the new pod variants, compare pod goos, maybe try out new enhanced data feeds on the simulator, look daggers at each other across a crowded merchant display area, occasionally end up talking animatedly with an inspiring speaker and finding that you're also talking to some other people you'd usually avoid, and have a dinner and dance where some people consume way too much of whatever they consume while others look on disapprovingly and eventually walk out ostentatiously.
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Kaleigh Doyle

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Re: RP Societies
« Reply #12 on: 16 Jun 2011, 20:50 »

Thanks for the replies, and I hope I can clarify some misconceptions here:
Kayleigh, could you please summarise what you'd like to see? I think I'm misreading your original post.
Sorry I hate to harp on this, but there's no "Y" there in my name. It's Kaleigh, with a soft a.

Quote
It seems to me that you're advocating forming gaming groups with players you like playing with (all good so far) and then having the existing characters of those players interact with each other regardless of their factional or other loyalties.

This is where I think I'm misunderstanding, because that sounds to me like allowing OOC motivations to drive IC actions in ways which go against established and internally-consistent IC motivations. This is generally considered a Bad Thing in the circles I RP with, so I'm curious about whether I've misunderstood, whether you think it's not a Bad Thing, or whether you'd get the troupe to develop truly plausible IC reasons why they might interact despite other history, loyalty and character.
I think you've mistaken 'interact' with 'work together in-character'. and 'regardless' with 'in addition to' their faction and loyalties. In other words, the PLAYERS cooperate to create a great story while maintaining their affiliations and loyalties. This means that the PLAYERS take an active effort in creating situations and stories that involve these characters (those that choose to take part in them) in the troupe. This doesn't mean Sansha and Cartel lovers need to work together, or perhaps a story requires them to begrudgingly work together for a common goal. That's the entire point. The players work together pro-actively to make events happen rather than simply reacting to events around them in channels and their wanderings through space.

By being a member of a troupe, it's implied that you want to participate in the shinnanegans of the group and that you would like your character to be involved with them in a realistic and plausible IC manner. It's an acknowledgement that, yes, you as a player want some fun too and you don't want to have to wait for it to happen in a room full of people who may or may not share your style or interests. This isn't to imply that exclusivity is a necessity, or that somehow the loyalties of the character will not involve a larger stage of characters, but the primary characters that initially fuel the endeavor will be participants in the troupe. In other words, interest is infectious, and getting the large audience involved takes a group effort, and there is no control over this story once it takes a life of its own.

I'll give you a good example. I ran an event five years ago in the summit channel called "Drifting", about a young black-sheep Vherokior woman trying to escape an arranged marriage dictated by her tribal elder. She was introduced to the channel as a soft spoken and questionable character who was constantly on the run. Later a second character was introduced, a man (played by a friend) she was destined to marry, who introduced himself as an investigator trying to locate this girl. The man enlisted several individuals in the channel to try to befriend her and gain her whereabouts under the pretense that she is actually wanted for murder. Some individuals in the channel expressed empathy for the girl and didn't believe his accusations or his background and others were more than happy to comply. Lillith Blackheart, of all people, was one of the individuals that befriended the girl and genuinely wanted to help her. The story itself pitted players against one another, and as the story unfolded we found cartel types and mercenaries pitted against sansha and anti-slaver types. The point was, that when faced with a larger overarching goal the pilots had to contend with working for or against what would be logically perceived as traditional foes to achieve their goals. It's an opportunity to add some depth to characters and challenge our character's position in situations.

I ran this event and had no idea how it would unfold, but as things took off I knew it was going to be great. My perspective is, why not pursue this actively with others and try to make something like this happen more often?

I'm kind of surprised to hear that this is not how is has been working, as having taste for similar RP sounds like a sensible starting point for collaboration.

Anyhow, this kind of project would be likely to be charged with the following accusations:
a) The faction loyalties and RP troupe connections are conflicting with each other.
b) The troupe is accused of elitism.
Thanks for the reply Tamur. Like I said before, I think this often happens naturally in sub-communities already, but my point is to make it a conscious effort and an opportunity to actively build something cooperatively. I also think that the term elitism, especially among rp circles, gets bandied about all too often as an excuse to be critical of groups that set standards for the quality and type of play they desire from their roleplay experience. Consider that RP channels and corporations set standards and pre-requisites for play; where do you set the line for whom is elitist and what is personal preference? And it's not as if exclusion from this troupe would somehow limit their involvement in an event- they will still have an opportunity to interact if they take the time to find out what's going on from the participants.

Quote
One way to counter these would be to keep the existence of the group unrevealed. In addition, the troupe would have to face the usual challenges:
c) If there were more than 4-5 members in the troupe, the risk of clique formation would rapidly increase as a consequence of group differentition.
d) In a few weeks there would be an OOC conflict, which would either split or disband the troupe, or lead to stable operation.
e) If the troupe became tightly-knit, adding more members to it would be increasingly difficult.

To my knowledge, these can be beaten only with an administrative structure, or by keeping the group very small. Maybe one of these phenomena a)-e) is the cause why we haven't seen any troupes around, unless they have been operating in the shadows.
Well, that's up to the individual groups. I'm not trying to dictate their structure, simply to present it as another alternative to limiting interaction to factions and channel relationships.


Quote
This is the very reason I wound up with so damn many alts.
It's unfortunate how alt paranoia affects this option :cry:
I think that's just the reality of the situation in New Eden. Anytime you trust someone, you take the risk of them being a spy or a thief intent on harm.
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lallara zhuul

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Re: RP Societies
« Reply #13 on: 17 Jun 2011, 00:41 »

Kaleigh, sorry to harp on this, its shenannigans.

About the troupe thing... I think sort of impromptu troupes gather and dissolve naturally within the RP circles of EVE, according to the stories that unfold etc.

I do not mind people playing game masters and creating storylines for other people to enjoy, personally I get no satisfaction from such activities.

More power to ya.
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Z.Sinraali

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Re: RP Societies
« Reply #14 on: 17 Jun 2011, 01:13 »

Thanks for the replies, and I hope I can clarify some misconceptions here:
Kayleigh, could you please summarise what you'd like to see? I think I'm misreading your original post.
Sorry I hate to harp on this, but there's no "Y" there in my name. It's Kaleigh, with a soft a.

Kali Doyle? That explains a few things...
« Last Edit: 17 Jun 2011, 11:14 by Z.Sinraali »
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