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[Tyzzara]

A few thoughts:


Cassius:

we are simply here to make your ship (for all values of 'you') explode."

And of COURSE we want to get in on -SF- kills. This conflict has been a long time coming.



NOTE:
I forgot how much I can enjoy reading your posts Jade. It's good to see you and SF again.


As to the RP stuff... STIM is RP lite for sure these days. So while I was never a hard core RP type... I believe it optimal to integrate the story (as it is a very real and interesting chain of events dating back over a span of years) somehow. I think Jade, Bacch and Logan are doing it right.

This is good stuff guys and based on some interesting history. Let's not fuck it up.

Game On.

[Tyzzara]

So I think are mistaken in saying the OOC dislike is inherent in the relationship. From SF's perspective I can honestly tell you nobody cares anymore. It was four years ago. The whole reason I contacted Verone last week was to suggest that we just move on from the local smacktalk and fight without the vitreol *shrug* and that mainly because it was actually confusing our new players as to what the cause was.

.......If it happens we'll have a damned good fight - if it doesn't then. To the IGS propaganda-mobile!

But ooc-wise its all good fun.

This pretty much sums up my take as well. But hey... who am I.... v0v

[Jade Constantine]

bah wrong thread splitoff.

[Jade Constantine]

A few thoughts:


Cassius:

we are simply here to make your ship (for all values of 'you') explode."

And of COURSE we want to get in on -SF- kills. This conflict has been a long time coming.



NOTE:
I forgot how much I can enjoy reading your posts Jade. It's good to see you and SF again.


As to the RP stuff... STIM is RP lite for sure these days. So while I was never a hard core RP type... I believe it optimal to integrate the story (as it is a very real and interesting chain of events dating back over a span of years) somehow. I think Jade, Bacch and Logan are doing it right.

This is good stuff guys and based on some interesting history. Let's not fuck it up.

Game On.

Yeah good stuff Tyzzara. Bah, I'm increasingly thinking I fucked up this situation quite a lot  by going to Verone rather than straight to you guys talking about trying to reduce the ooc stress. Screw the middle man in future / nobody does anything for nothing.

[Jade Constantine]

little update on this war

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1505380&page=8#219

Full story is on IGS ... the short version:

Moira HQ destroyed in Pelille.
SF returns to a decent 3-1 kill ratio (ahead on ISK blah blah blah)
Rote Kapelle wardecced us then didn't pay the bill after two weeks because we were making nice inroads on their mission runners)
Moira (appear) to have moved away 20 jumps to Sinq Liason.
We put the remains of their tower economic structures up for sale in the Moira lowsec market hub in agoze. (which seemed appropriate

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1497906&page=3#61


At this point it'll either peter out after a while more of wardec but little contact or perhaps Soter will contact us for a formal surrender / ceasefire or something and as long as Veto has nothing to do with it this time it might be possible to do a decent IC end point.

[Julianus Soter]

Star fractions activities have nothing to do with roleplay, and thus, we will not roleplay in response.

30 pilots vs. 6, good work mates.

To clarify why this wardec has nothing to do with roleplay, Star Fraction set us 'red' while we were fighting for the GalFed during facwar. We were not notified of this standings change. we were fine with it, and set SF red in return.

At some undisclosed point in time, Moira was 'reset', again with no notification.

Moira still viewed SF as red. we targeted and destroyed one of their stealthbombers as a target of opportunity.

SF then gets 'offended' by this act, when it was in the first the aggressor entity, and then declares war on us unilaterally, with no demands issued besides me leaving my own corporation.

I've yet to see any significant roleplay develop from this.

[Jade Constantine]

Star fractions activities have nothing to do with roleplay, and thus, we will not roleplay in response.

That is completely false and I would like you to retract the statement.

And to offer some light to your confusions Soter.

I’m not sure what you are referring to with 30 pilots vs 6. Eve is an unkind environment and we certainly haven’t complained when your alliances have massively outnumbered us at times. You shrug and get on with it thinking of how to better bring your focus in a time of your choosing.

Next, I do not see how you can say this is not an ideologically-motivated wardec given that it was enacted at the request of our pilots because you and your pilots told us in local that Pelille was “barred” to us and that is a complete slap in the face IC to free-captains of the Star Fraction who have played radical freespacers for the last eight years. We were fighting people for this IC reason before you rolled up your character Soter – and its quite inappropriate for you to doubt our IC motivations when we are fighting you for pretty damn clear reasons.

Re the standings changes there is no mystery. We have the Gallente Federation set red (and the Caldari Militia, and the 24th Crusade) we can make exceptions when friendly corporations join some of these entities but the default is red for nationalist militias – the Cosmopolite made a pretty informative post on this back when Empyrean Age went live.

When Moira left the Federal Militia you were magically neutral again because you had no such standings associated. You earned your specific red by aggression in 0.0 against a Fraction vessel. But the reason for this war was not that.

It was your own actions in Ostingele to interfere with our patrols against pirates (ironically) and the demand of your corp mates that we stay out of Pelille.

As for demands for surrender. We have never formally demanded you leave your own corporation and I will say to you here on an ooc level – its ridiculous, that would not be demanded of you because its deeply unrealistic to expect a player to leave his or her player group as a result of an IC conflict.
In most cases the limit of what we’d expect from you at this point would be an apology for the aggression / interference baiting – a recognition that progressive free-space agenda is commercially-viable and good for the Placid Region and an affirmation that you would refrain from baiting/aggressing our vessels in the future.

That in essence is what would have gotten you peace and spared your tower in Pelille had you not gotten Verone to try to “lean on us.”

And it’s the type of surrender term that I believe the captains of the fraction would agree with were it put before them in council this week.

So let’s be plain. This is not about your quitting moira or your organization being decapitated. We’ve had an IC war for IC reasons that has been conducted in a decent IC manner from our side (and in the main from your corp mates I must say). There is no shame in resolving it soon in a similar manner. We’ve proved our point I think – and we’re very happy with the outcome of the war. Now you need to decide if you want to come back for round two or seek a ceasefire on the very reasonable terms we are in the custom of offering in these circumstances.

[Julianus Soter]

Let us consider, then, the roleplaying implications of this conflict.

Star Fraction has declared war on the only major anti-Sansha roleplaying corporation in existance, at a time specifically when it is dedicated to defeating the Sansha threat.

Sansha Kuvakei has explicitly declared the 'end of the Capsuleer era' and is focused on destroying or enslaving all capsuleers in existence, hacking capsule tech to do so.

Some of the early Star Fraction engagements were, in fact, in the incursion zones, where several of our pilots were located. Star Fraction attempted to engage and destroy these forces while they were fighting Sansha.

Now, if you do claim there was roleplay at work, Jade Constantine, then it would seem to be of a Pro-Sansha motivation.

However, you claim that you are in fact fighting 'federalists', when our charter explicitly forbids us from engaging in facwar while the Sansha threat exists. http://www.eve-moira.org/index.php?page=7

So, that leaves us with two options, your anarchist RP is a ruse and merely a cover for a covert Sansha RP campaign, or you're simply angry at me personally and wish to punish me for my statements on the IGS by removing me from my gaming community and Corporation. Something which, I'll let you know now, is impossible. Moira is a family and we will be together through whatever harassment or aggression from outside forces is levied against us.

Now, Jade, if you wish to discuss a end to hostilities between roleplaying corporations, since the source of these hostilities is so very ambiguous and difficult to explain to the larger RP community with any clarity, I'm more than eager to do so.

Edit: I eagerly await a response. Furthermore, I would like to put to rest your claims of us 'interfering' with anything at any point in Ostingele. Our killboards speak plainly enough of our hostile disposition to the Ostingele pirates. Once again, it would seem the motivations for this wardec are entirely OOC based.

[Victoria Stecker]

"We're the only Anti-Sansha Corp, therefor anyone fighting us must be pro-Sansha."

You blew up one of their ships, tried to provoke other fights. Then told them they weren't welcome in Pelille. They got a free-spacey hair up their butts and attacked you.

I fail to see how any of this isn't RP, especially from an "everything in space is IC" point of view.

[Julianus Soter]

We did not provoke any fights.

Jade constantine attempted to provoke fights.

Of course, this is impossible to verify, as no shots were fired!

I fail to see how anything below weapons fire can justify a wardec to destroy a roleplaying corporation and gaming community. The only remainding explanation, as stated before, is OOC antipathy.

[Seriphyn]

Isn't Mebrithiel Ju'wien in Moira.?

[Julianus Soter]

"We're the only Anti-Sansha Corp, therefor anyone fighting us must be pro-Sansha."

You blew up one of their ships, tried to provoke other fights. Then told them they weren't welcome in Pelille. They got a free-spacey hair up their butts and attacked you.

I fail to see how any of this isn't RP, especially from an "everything in space is IC" point of view.

Well, when the aggressor entity fails to provide any legitimate rationale for the acts of aggresion, we must -infer- their RP intentions from their actions. That is what I did in my post above.

Mebrithiel is in Moira, and we discussed the RP rationale for her joining. You should probably check her service history with the Synenose Accord if you want to dig deeper into that.

[Seriphyn]

You will have to remember people will go with the face value answer first, rather than digging around for private conversations and agreements. Mebs recently posted on Kuvakei's thread on the IGS about a date. I mean, that's going to stand out far more in the greater public arena than saying there were some agreements behind the scenes. RP has consequences, and all.

[Julianus Soter]

Anyone who understands the brain of Mebrithiel knows that she loves to make those kinds of quips. Read her ship descriptions, ever?

[Victoria Stecker]

Well, when the aggressor entity fails to provide any legitimate rationale for the acts of aggresion, we must -infer- their RP intentions from their actions. That is what I did in my post above.

There are threadnaughts dedicated to providing said rationale, this is (or was) one of them. You're welcome to make IC accusations questioning their motives and claiming they're supporting Papa Sansha, but claiming OOC that there has been no RP involved in this conflict seems absurd to me - it's provoked plenty which I've enjoyed watching, even if it came with a healthy dose of OOC misunderstanding and drama.