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[scagga]

Here's one thing that always made me wonder to no end

U'K and EM (not to exclude the rest of the minis, I just don't know all your corptickers) have never come to major blows with each other, at least from what I know.
With the whole "1ISK for Midulars head" business and other things, how come you minis remain so peacefull?

P.S.: And when will we get a big show of fireworks from you, if ever? I need to reserve a seat and buy popcorn

The Amarr bloc is too united for them to seriously fall out  

Clever realpolitik.

[Myyona]

Myyona, what corp / alliance are you in? Just curious, as much of your stance sounds similar to EM's.

I am quite my own, doing mainly synth booster production in Ataraxia Pharmacies. Along with a few other people these days though. But we are not a part of any alliance. Myyona is a bit of a mysterious mix of Minmatar heritage, Caldari corporate mindset and a pharmaceutical/biomedical corporation working with the Sisters of EVE.

Yes, I know I sound a bit as EM. I like them too, and while I do not try to deliberately copy their stance I might have been inspired.

[Casiella]

Hrmmm. I will look you up IG then, as we have a few things in common. Not all, obviously, but enough to make things interesting.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

Here's one thing that always made me wonder to no end

U'K and EM (not to exclude the rest of the minis, I just don't know all your corptickers) have never come to major blows with each other, at least from what I know.
With the whole "1ISK for Midulars head" business and other things, how come you minis remain so peacefull?

P.S.: And when will we get a big show of fireworks from you, if ever? I need to reserve a seat and buy popcorn

The Amarr bloc is too united for them to seriously fall out  

Clever realpolitik.

Exactly. The Empire is very much a uniting influence in Matari society as a whole and between EM and U'K in particular.

[Laerise [PIE]]

Right.. so if I destroy the empire... the republic destroys itself... and all the minis die...

Oops, wait... destroying the empire is no option for me 

[Ulphus]

U'K and EM (not to exclude the rest of the minis, I just don't know all your corptickers) have never come to major blows with each other, at least from what I know.
With the whole "1ISK for Midulars head" business and other things, how come you minis remain so peacefull?

EM is fairly pragmatic about a lot of things, and U'K stay out of the Republic most of the time. There just aren't a lot of practical issues to have conflict over.

If U'K moved back to the Republic, you might see some fireworks, but then they'd probably be a different U'K than they are now, so who knows.

[Casiella]

This is rapidly turning into a thread that needs an IC companion. 

[Eva]

Here's one thing that always made me wonder to no end

U'K and EM (not to exclude the rest of the minis, I just don't know all your corptickers) have never come to major blows with each other, at least from what I know.
With the whole "1ISK for Midulars head" business and other things, how come you minis remain so peacefull?

P.S.: And when will we get a big show of fireworks from you, if ever? I need to reserve a seat and buy popcorn

It came close many times. Karn has told me he's had members screaming at him to push the big red button and smash us into the ground, while EM too has its lobby that says Ushra'Khan are a bigger threat to the Republic and the Minmatar as a whole than CVA. (EM has a lot of lobbies, it makes internal politics very fun most of the time.)

What has certainly been a part of keeping us off each other's throats is SEBBIE POWAH!

If you look at a number of the Minmatar event agents, the Sebiestor ones are very... tricksy. Dagras Kutil (The Carnival, Barkrik) and Pinala Adala (Some station, Eram) are good examples. Underhanded. Dishonest. Kind of Loki-esque (the Trickster god, not the ship) - Loki's role in the Norse pantheon was to cause the death of beloved Baldur, so that he would be safe and be able to return after Ragnarok to rebuild Midgard.

Anyway, back to U'K and EM.

We have the Amarr as our biggest problem. PF (both from Chrons and in-game events) says they have the biggest Navy and thus are a hideous threat, even if they haven't put it into action yet. Both U'K and EM agree on that, but disagree on which facets to focus on and how to do so. But there are elements on both sides that know a war between us would simply weaken us and strengthen the Amarr. And sometimes we call each other lackwit numbnuts because of that.

BRUTOR ANGRY! BRUTOR SMASH!

So, bring on the Sebs!

O gnoes, U'K and -EM- are on the brink of war again! What will you use to save us, magic Sebiestors?

ORCA POWAH!

Sebbies are lovely, aren't they? Especially the women. Like the Orca, we're pretty, playful and can seriously fuck up a penguin.

No, the whale, not the ship, m'kay?

Beneath whoever is the leader of EM at the time, there's a little pool of Sebiestors circling in the water, giving advice and having happy playful funtime. They run the PR department, among other things. And they do realpolitik. And I believe U'K has some of its own who also speak up at such times (though some of them are actually Brutor, but they're very Sebbie Brutor).

These Sebs leap up out of the water and start working like crazy to dissolve tensions and get relevant parties to shut the hell up and stop making things worse. (This is, of course, much harder when it's one of those Sebs who has lost their temper - i.e. me. Like any good viking, at times I have flown into a rage and really wanted to go round to Ushra'Khan's island and upend their monks.)

We talk to each other both on the IGS forums and off them, making it clear that hostile noises are isolated and not the unified voice of the alliance and that each other's work is appreciated and accepted. We make visible counter-demonstrations to nullify any negative points raised according to our own beliefs. And behind us, we have more Sebbie strengths to give these things oomph. Like...

MARKET POWAH!

"I'm so sorry to hear that you feel that way, Mr AngryMinnie, Sir. By the way, I'm afraid your shipment of Vagabonds has been delayed..."

There is a certain amount of trade between U'K and -EM- and it flows both ways (Contrary to popular belief, U'K too has quite a formidable industrial apparatus at their disposal). Receiving a crapload of cheap ships makes you kind of fond of someone. Fondness is actually appallingly important in Eve Politics. Which brings me to the all-important...

EYELASH POWAH!!11!

Even Sebbie males have it. They deploy those long, dark fluttering eyelashes and call up all the old, loving memories. And between U'K and -EM- there are a lot of them.

Past history has seen us come rushing to each other's aid more than once. Because of our relatively small size (-EM- apparently registers as about 500 people at the moment, but I don't think I've ever met more than 150 and once you weed out people who are RL-busy at the time or unable to be involved for IC reasons, it's quite a small number), we've never been able to send nearly as many people to things like the QR siege and 9UY as we would have liked. But it still makes an impact when you fly 40-odd jumps on zero notice to leap into a system, gleefully cry "We come for our people!" (doing that made my day) and get blown up by U'K's other allies... then come back and do it all again. And likewise, after weeks of exhausting fighting against INFOD, U'K sent a squad to us to help defend a control tower long enough to repair it. Then we go back to nullsec. Then they join us in a fleet against PIE. And so on. And so forth.

And between those visits, we have our bitter fights and swap insults. And then go to help each other in spite of it.

It becomes quite touching over time. So that's basically how we manage to stay united in action if not always in thought - because it's a) Too important not to and b) there's simply too much history to be entirely forgotten.

A post about the realpolitik aspect of Matari alliance politics from deepest darkest history - Matari Politics: A Symbiotic View

[Rodj Blake]

Whilst it would be nice to see some tribally-aligned corps, I wonder how it would happen in practice - would a Brutor corp have limits on non-Brutors joining?

And I know that they have their different cultures, but what do the different tribes actually stand for politically, anyway?

[Grr]

The minmatar block.

[Eva]

Whilst it would be nice to see some tribally-aligned corps, I wonder how it would happen in practice - would a Brutor corp have limits on non-Brutors joining?

And I know that they have their different cultures, but what do the different tribes actually stand for politically, anyway?

In general, Brutor tribe is strongly militant. Sebiestor tribe are quite diplomatic. Krusual are isolationist and the Vherokior are laisse-faire. All the original Republican tribes seem to have a unificationist bent i.e. all Minmatar, one Nation. Each clan, however, has its own viewpoints and traditions.

[Casiella]

In general, Brutor tribe is strongly militant. Sebiestor tribe are quite diplomatic. Krusual are isolationist and the Vherokior are laisse-faire. All the original Republican tribes seem to have a unificationist bent i.e. all Minmatar, one Nation. Each clan, however, has its own viewpoints and traditions.

I'd like to read up a bit more on that. Could you point us to links on those?

[Eva]

In general, Brutor tribe is strongly militant. Sebiestor tribe are quite diplomatic. Krusual are isolationist and the Vherokior are laisse-faire. All the original Republican tribes seem to have a unificationist bent i.e. all Minmatar, one Nation. Each clan, however, has its own viewpoints and traditions.

I'd like to read up a bit more on that. Could you point us to links on those?

Oops, yeah, perhaps I should have said "My perception is that..."

Though I'm not pulling it entirely out of my exquisitely pert bottom.

The Boundless Creation ship, the Sleipnir, is described thus: "Boundless Creation's ships are based on the Brutor tribe's philosophy of warfare: simply fit as much firepower onto your ship as possible."

Shakor was himself was a militant. [Maleatu Shakor Chronicle | Evelopedia Entry]

The Brutor tribe corp description says "The Brutors suffered the worst under the Amarr occupation and many of them are still enslaved within the Amarr Empire. This fuels their hate for the Amarrians and they are the only tribe to actively pursue a continuation of the war against the Amarrians and their underlings, the Ammatars."

The Brutor Freedom Front, The Wolves of Pator and the Defiants [Aurora event groups] were all Brutor militants.

Player-wise, Camar and many of StormRiders were highly enthusiastic militant Brutor as were many promient Brutor members of Ushra'Khan - Brutor definitely seem to outnumber Sebs in militant Minmatar Groups (DF perhaps excepted), while political moderates like EM and VOSP have many more Sebs.

Seb-wise, we have the news archives from the years of Karin Midular's prime ministerial term. She was compromising (some would say appeasing) and negotiative... (Yes, I am making up words here). She was leader of Sebiestor tribe at the time (and still is).

I place the Krusual tribe as isolationist because it says somewhere that they were the one tribe to escape slavery by pulling back into the mountains and staying there with a "nobody comes in, nobody goes out" policy. In more recent news.

The Krusual were involved in an Aurora event which involved trying to prevent new Caldari stations being established in Minmatar space. They later made some statement rejecting the concept of "trial" as unminmatar and foreign-influenced. I seem to remember there being another statement somewhere in which a member of the government comments that the Krusual have always gone their own way.

The Vherokior are rather undernourished in PF. We know they travel between tribes and clans bearing news and information, teaching the knowledge of each back and forth. The Vherokior tribe corp description says "The Vherokior tribe is perhaps the least troubled of the Minmatar tribes, with little aspirations for dominance, content to live on the fringe." There's also stuff about them trading extensively with the Thukker and Angels.

When you look at their home space of Molden Heath, it has a tiny, tiny amount of highsec space. Most of it is lawless, ungoverned and left to run itself. Yet the Vherks aren't depicted anywhere as out-and-out criminals, suggesting that it's left like that because they just don't care much whether ships want to get boomy with each other.

So yes, what I said above is more my personal impression from generic amounts of stuff than any concrete statement anywhere.

[Casiella]

I have always had the same impression of the Brutor, largely due to Boundless Creation and, yeah, every political story about the tribe.

Krusual seem to be the shifty types, as I recall. I sort of think of them as the Bothans of EVE, which probably isn't fair to either universe, and certainly doesn't preclude them from being traditional and isolationist in their political goals. Because of that, I tend to assume that they have heavy representation in the RSS.

The Sebiestor are more interesting, as we know that they have a tinkerer mindset: the whole "we can build anything from anything at any time" viewpoint. They also have a nomadic tradition not wholly unlike the Thukkers, at least for some portion of the tribe, based on character creation. So I tend to view the Sebs as highly pragmatic: do what works, don't worry about anything else. Diplomacy is a tool that might work, and when it doesn't, toss it and try something else. Hell, try everything simultaneously from different directions.

Molden Heath presents an interesting case, as the region description (I think) indicates it was originally set aside as a shared area for all tribes. The Vherokior have a small corner of it, obviously, but not the entire region, just as the Krusuals inhabit the Ani constellation principally.

I have additional thoughts on the "tribal republic" concept, but I'm worried that CCP will finally publish something momentous as soon as I write up what I think.

[scagga]

Whilst it would be nice to see some tribally-aligned corps, I wonder how it would happen in practice - would a Brutor corp have limits on non-Brutors joining?

And I know that they have their different cultures, but what do the different tribes actually stand for politically, anyway?

In general, Brutor tribe is strongly militant. Sebiestor tribe are quite diplomatic. Krusual are isolationist and the Vherokior are laisse-faire. All the original Republican tribes seem to have a unificationist bent i.e. all Minmatar, one Nation. Each clan, however, has its own viewpoints and traditions.

As always, leaving out the nefantar!