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[Ciarente]

You wouldn’t say Al Capone was providing a dream of hope for the outcasts of American society  in the 1920’s would you?

The romanticisation of  1930s bankrobbers, however, started at the time and continues to this day.

[GoGo Yubari]

I would suggest that the "evil outlaws" generally manifest themselves as part of the environment without explicitly RPing in the sense most of us here mean it.

Griefers, gate campers, etc. all exist in EVE and will happily cut your throat for a pod ransom or a chance at some decent loot drops. They've no pretensions toward a revolutionary philosophy or anything other than big explosions and tears.

This is made of good and win, in the context of EVE, and they fill a similar niche.

Yes, but Im refering to the RP community. Most of the pirates I see are very civil and friendly with almost everyone. Be they deadly enemies. Note that I might look like a hypocrite saying that because im playing a liberal in a keep open to almost everyone for civilities, but when I see other loyalist organisations and how they treat with pirate factions... well.

I find that a tad odd that they couldn't be nice and sociable. I mean all the criminals I've met in real life - a fair few of different calibers - have been mostly that. There's no reason they wouldn't be, really. It's just when they get down to business.. or have had a few too many beers and somebody pisses them off, which is, well, pretty much the same for all of us human beings.

Of course, then there are the criminally insane folks. But they aren't really in the money making business which we are largely speaking of here, so much as stalking/raping business. Never met any of those folks on a social level personally. Nor would I care to.

Though I do see that you aren't everybody should be that way. It's just odd that my perspective has always been that Eve lacks good guys, be ause everybody seems to be a psycho. So I see the inverse problem. Odd.

[Louella Dougans]

In the tutorial missions, a pilot from 4 of the pirate factions (Blood Raider, Cartel, Serpentis, Gurista) makes you an offer of work, because "empire trained pilots are better than the riff-raff we have at home".

Civilian infrastructure is extremely underdeveloped, because self-sufficiency weakens pirate faction control over that space.

Being reliant on imports means ships travelling through space. Those ships will be stopped/searched by the pirate faction.

Educational and medical facilities will also be substandard, for similar reasons.


Also, pirate faction lifestyles will be a lot more gender divided than empire.

Because, to have a sustainable population, the average woman has to have 2 children that survive to reproduce.
Attrition through "survival of the strongest" (the idea of which is debatable), through faction heavy-handedness, poor medical care and so on, means that the average woman has to have more than 2 children, to have sufficient children that survive to reproduce.
Some women won't have children due to factors such as being lesbians, or infertile, or whatever, so you end up with something like probably in the order of 4 or even more children, for a woman that has children.
And raising 4 or more children takes a lot of time.

[Lyn Farel]

Ok you convinced me.

Maybe it lacks real paragons because the universe itselfs wants it. We have the SOE, though, but well. And I think that most people like the dark aspect of eve and just want to play grey people, because its a magnificent occasion for them to do so. More generally in every MMO and universe, people tend to accord themselves with the tone of the universe itself.

And, the most important of all : most of us play political characters in a very politized world. Not so easy to create a total paragon when you are playing a partisan.

I would suggest that the "evil outlaws" generally manifest themselves as part of the environment without explicitly RPing in the sense most of us here mean it.

Griefers, gate campers, etc. all exist in EVE and will happily cut your throat for a pod ransom or a chance at some decent loot drops. They've no pretensions toward a revolutionary philosophy or anything other than big explosions and tears.

This is made of good and win, in the context of EVE, and they fill a similar niche.

Yes, but Im refering to the RP community. Most of the pirates I see are very civil and friendly with almost everyone. Be they deadly enemies. Note that I might look like a hypocrite saying that because im playing a liberal in a keep open to almost everyone for civilities, but when I see other loyalist organisations and how they treat with pirate factions... well.

Well if people act like total sociopaths, they won't get much RP. Like, Nikita might torture, murder, and enslave people, and is very open about that, but if I play her like nothing but a monster, then no ones going to want to interact with her except through the barrel of a gun. So she's amiably evil, and has no problem conversing with her enemies. If she sees a shot, she'll take it, but otherwise...she gains nothing, and I gain nothing, by being monsterous and evil for the sake of it.

Well, don't make me say something I didn't. ^^

Was not refering to psychos either. Just very ruthless people.

[Orthic]

In the tutorial missions, a pilot from 4 of the pirate factions (Blood Raider, Cartel, Serpentis, Gurista) makes you an offer of work, because "empire trained pilots are better than the riff-raff we have at home".

Is this comparing empire-trained capsuleers to pirate-trained capsuleers, or is it comparing empire trained capsuleers to the standard pirate and empire rats we slaughter in missions? I could see it going either way, never really took it seriously except as a recruitment shpiel - consider whether the speaker is a reliable source of info, or just trying to talk you into joining up.

[Senn Typhos]

I'm not trying to give you a lesson in morality or prove that the pirate factions are evil via videos.  I'm showing you what life is like in lawless space.   RPing a slightly more dark and edgy Robin Hood character affiliated with a pirate group is perfectly acceptable, but the general character of the pirate factions isn't a band of merry men fighting against tyranny and providing a dream of hope for the outcasts of society.

You wouldn’t say Al Capone was providing a dream of hope for the outcasts of American society  in the 1920’s would you?

Yeah, see, this is exactly what I mean. I didn't say that gang life is a Robin Hood situation. In fact, I agree that anyone who looks at the pirates OOCly as humanitarian organizations is kidding themselves. Furthermore, ICly, Senn for one understands that fact, too.

But whether or not it's a "good life," by whatever moral tag you place on "good life," the fact is that people will still flock to organized crime, in this reality or any other. Gangs run strong during their life cycles, and while Earth's haven't lasted incredibly long spans of time, people still join up for the reasons I mentioned. They think it's a better life than what they have.

So lower caste members, outcasts, deviants, anyone who has run from their nation of birth for selfish reasons? They ALL have a reason to think pirate groups are a valid option, and in some cases, I'm willing to bet they live better than they would have on their home planets.

So in summary; Robin Hood, definitely not. But anyone with a half-clear mind doesn't join up with an outlaw group thinking it's gonna be a no-legals-allowed tree fort where they can safely play with their Matchbox cars and shoot at people now and then. It's not a gleeful time in your life if you're considering mob life.

And if a character did join up with outlaws thinking it was going to be a prolonged game of cops and robbers, they're probably already dead in a mission pocket somewhere, and nothing of value was lost.