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[Graanvlokkie]

Thoughts?  

Do it

Do it noaw!

[Orthic]

Thoughts?  

Do it

Do it noaw!

This, basically. Oh, and come play with us in Intaki too.

[BloodBird]

Another problem Pro-Fed RP seem to have is the fact the Fed is at war now, and thus 'all hands' are needed for the war-effort. FW is an old discussion for another time and place, but one of the things the Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr have is that their bigger non-FW alliances, CVA, EM, 4TH etc (at least when they were still alive/active, don't recall what happened to them) were all alive and well before FW came about. We might still have had Acheron Federation, if they had not disbanded/joined Veto some time before/during the start of FW, I can't recall exactly when it was.

When I were in STRIX the first time, there were a good deal of activety, but it seemed to be far after it's golden days, so to say. The majority of the corp would appear to have been innactive, and I, personally, felt like FW was sucking the joy and life out of the corp. It's a special situation, to be in FW and trying to RP at the same time.

I imagine if we are going to see more pro-Fed corps spring up that are to have a chance of living til they hit 50+ guys (as an example) and possibly founding a living, vibrant alliance to 'answer' to EM/CVA/I-RED etc, then this will have to be created outside the militia's structure. Possibly as a pro-Fed 'merc' outfit, willing to step in and help from outside the one's struggling in FW and possibly supplying them ships/gear.

As others have mentioned, ideologies and 'charm' will be needed as well - why would people want to join your corp, your alliance, and help the Fed? Why them and none else? Not only must this entity be able to make an impact of some kind, and not only NOT fall apart or not kick off at all, but you got to keep things fresh and interesting.

Hmm. More on this when I get back from the twiligt land, I guess. Creating a vibrant living pro-Fed corp or even several corps should not be the worlds biggest problem. There are plenty of players. Perhaps, one would figure out ways one could keep things interesting enough, long enough. We will see.

Rambling... gonna og sleep. NN.

[Wanoah]

For me, the quintessential Gallente corp was the Glamour Bunnies. While we had the Amarrians and the Minmatar fighting their eternal conflict, the Gallente had bunnies. If we're looking at history, then look no further.

People that wanted conflict drifted towards the established mutual wars. People that were interested in niche RP or individualist pursuits rolled Gallente characters. I'm generalising, of course, but that's mostly what I saw for my first couple of years in Eve.

The Caldari bloc also struggled by comparison, as I recall, mostly for the lack of credible opposition so much of the time.

Then, there were mechanics to deal with. Races and bloodlines were often picked for pragmatic reasons rather than RP reasons (especially for those of us that drifted into Eve RP long after our characters were created). If you wanted a combat character, you chose Caldari (Achura once the 'new' bloodlines came in) or a Minnie Brutor for the starting stats. If you wanted an industrial character, you'd go with an Intaki. This wasn't just limited to min/maxers - an awful lot of people just picked bloodlines that would give them a decent start in training the skills that enabled them to play Eve the way they wanted.

I think history does count when you're looking at PvP corps. You need a core of experienced players to get the kind of snowball effect that might lead to a larger organisation that is built to last. It's a factor. You also need a unifying element. I reckon the Gallente never had that in the past. They could never really define themselves in terms of who and what they were against in the same way the other three major factions could. That hook wasn't really there.

Factional Warfare was really the Great White Hope for a strong Gallente faction at last. The existence of this thread seems to indicate that hope never led to any lasting success.

If I was a betting man, I'd probably put a small wager on there never being a successful, long-lived Fed-supporting group.

[Hamish Grayson]

Glamour Bunnies  <3

[Bong-cha Jones]

If I was a betting man, I'd probably put a small wager on there never being a successful, long-lived Fed-supporting group.

To counter my previous pessimism, it hasn't all been doom and gloom.  Seriphyn and the Guard cannot be given enough credit for staying visible and active no matter how dire things looked, and FW has brought in some light-rp for the Feds.  I, personally, have been a horrible failure at bringing in Federal roleplay, but there are some successes    I'm hoping that this conversation, and the efforts it might inspire, will build on them.

[Valdezi]

Ken and I are working on something right now with some others and hopefully something will come of it.

[Chowda]

Thoughts?  

Do it

Do it noaw!

The problem is I was confused for about 6 months as to what exactly the Federation was.  I thought they were imperial busybodies when that's not the case at all.  Well, maybe the Sociocrats, but they haven't ruled in quite some time.  And as such, there's no way I could swing a Pro-Fed character.  None.  That was just something I was thinking of while I was in the head.

But I may be tempted to do political party pages.  I definitely know enough about politics to fake it without blatantly inserting real life viewpoints.  I'll look into free blog sites that I can make it look like a web page, see what I can come up with provided I have the motivation.

 

[Alain Colcer]

The problem is I was confused for about 6 months as to what exactly the Federation was.

The reason i've been asking for a sort of comprehensive infodump since forever on each empire and faction.

-Society
-Politics
-Cultural background (art, music, literature, movies, theatres)
-Religion
-Economy
-Foreign Relations
-Dissidents
-Major figures (good and bad)

The above DEFINE a nation. We have seen pieces of these described for Amarr, Caldari and Minmatar, but much less so for Gallente.

If a new player is to be "drawn" and "enchanted" by any faction, there must be some sort of "paradigm description" of what he is choosing to represent, or what his/her upbringing must been like.

I really wish the CCP content / storyline team are indeed "distilling" the cannon, and hope they do a good faction description first.

[Andreus Ixiris]

Mixed Metaphor has, since its inception, been about the Federation, and given that we existed since 2007, we (and by we, I mean me and Faust, currently - we don't have any other active members) preceeded the newer generation of Gallente militia RP corporations by a year or so. Around 3Q/4Q 2008, just after the war with Exalted, was our corporation's high-point - after a somewhat disastrous war, we immediately bounced back by merging with Vincent Pryce's old corporation and decisively winning two wars, including one against a well-respected mercenary group. Our active membership exceeded 20 competent PvPers and we were actually a fairly big name in FW simply on the basis of two of our Finnish members who were going around in a Thorax/Blackbird twosome and raping things (it was also when Vincent began his meteoric rise to PvP Monster Under The Bed by suiciding ALLAH AKBAR JIHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADing his Blackbird against a Hyperion so we could kill it). After the corporation kind of fell apart due to the unpleasantness involving CHINX alliance (yes, that was their actual ticker).

We've never been able to recoup our numbers because it's an extremely hard sell to make a Gallente RP corporation. Evanda Char commiserated with me when I complained to her about it that, yes, indeed, it's difficult, because Amarr and Minmatar have a very clear, uncomplicated face for their roleplay which you can dive straight into without having to consider very much:

Amarr - Theocratic despotism. Keeps slaves. They're the Bad Guys, and it's often fun to play the bad guys!

Minmatar - Plucky underdogs with a MacGuyver approach both to technology and to everyday life. Oppressed and kept as slaves for generations. They're the Good Guys, and it's often fun to play the good guys!

You can get into RP based solely on these principles. You don't ever have to go any further. But neither side is as simple as these basics. When you look into them, there's a lot of nuance to either side if you want to delve that deep:

Amarr - Not always the Bad Guys. Some despise slavery, some despise the system of government and some are inspired by their religion to do wonderful, selfless things. Even if it's for all the wrong reasons, the Amarr are occasionally a source of good in New Eden.

Minmatar - Not always the Good Guys. Sure, they were oppressed, but some just use that as an excuse for violence and savagery. The quality of life in their empire is pretty low for the average citizen and people are flocking to their more comfortable neighbour, the Federation, to get away from it all. The Republic's fringe is just as rife with extremists and barbarians as the Empire's.

What's good about the Amarr/Minmatar roleplay scene, and what's kept it so healthy for eight years or more, is that it has a very clear face value Good/Evil divide which ropes players in, but enough nuance and moral grey underneath it to keep serious roleplayers interested.

The Gallente/Caldari are way, way more complex than that, both underneath the surface, which is good, and at face value, which isn't. There is no clear face-value Good/Evil divide with the Gallente-Caldari, and that definitely hurts. What the Gallente-Caldari have are societies that are fundamentally almost identical, feuding over a series of complex, nuanced nationalistic and ideological differences. While this would be great as the basis for a series of sci-fi novels, it's a much, much harder proposal to sell to players in an MMO, making their characters, who want simple concepts now to base more complex ideas on later.

Liberal democracy vs. corporate plutocracy (or mob rule vs. meritocracy) is way harder to sell than freedom vs. slavery (or terrorism vs. rule of law). Mixed Metaphor's old core membership were either roleplayers who were genuinely interested in playing defenders of democracy, or non-RPing PvPers interested in the constant trouble my mouth and my character's mouth got us into. We didn't really get anyone else, and it's hard to recruit roleplayers for the Federation right now.

[Alain Colcer]

Andreus

I do understand the complexity of the Caldari/Gallente tension is often is hard to explain. However i do not think thats the root cause of the "marketing" problem with the Federation.

How you sell the idea of a sci-fi democracy?, knowing RL democracy has enormous pitfalls and absolutely horrible outcomes when dealing with social problems. How come the Federation spanned 5 regions and spread democracy all over? what was the big secret?.

Perhaps, if that little detail was unveiled, many more people would side with the Federation. I see it as the Golden bullet, but it will be imposible to find a good one really....otherwise democracies in our world would have copped with the RL problems already. Perhaps its something related to technology in some way, a technology we don't have today.

But if we could explain the Gallente vibrant society, their cultural expression, their pride in the lobbyst and political factions, how their Corporations are very much like the Caldari EXCEPT in key aspects such as social responsability and charities, how the individual grows and is indoctrinated into thinking new colonies or terraformed worlds are out there to seek the richness and glamour everyone dreams about......

How the religion the mix of Jin-mei, Mannar, Gallente and Intaki provide variety and a whole canvas of mixtures.

Man, i could go on....

How the Gallente are in their own way UNIQUE within themselves, and not by comparison. Perhaps then, just then....a player might see the Faction as something worthy to roleplay.

[Ulphus]

Bruno for Local political representative!

Seriously though, between you and Matariki, you almost make me want to roll a Gallente Alt

[Chowda]

But if we could explain the Gallente vibrant society, their cultural expression, their pride in the lobbyst and political factions, how their Corporations are very much like the Caldari EXCEPT in key aspects such as social responsability and charities, how the individual grows and is indoctrinated into thinking new colonies or terraformed worlds are out there to seek the richness and glamour everyone dreams about......

The one very real difference is the existence and power of unions in the Federation.  Corps must strive for profit no matter what.  In the State, that's it.  In the Fed, unions can negotiate against the corporate heads only looking for profit. 

Corporations in the Fed may be all about social responsibility, but the flipside is they need to do it for political reasons.  Which is how it should be.  In negotiations with unions, you should want to win the best deal for the corp.  If you work for a corp and put society over profit as a principle, you are a failure.  Investors will go elsewhere.

So, it may look differently on its face.  However, it's the political and business climate which drives philanthropy.

[Jonny Damordred]

Be a bastard, a trader, a miner, a lover, or a fighter.

Do whatever you want, but above all: Do what Matariki said: do it with style.

Love and Ganking,
Jonny D.

[Ulphus]

OMG It's Jonny D!