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[Seriphyn]

They could start by having something a bit more dramatic and provocative than "factory full of child labourers blows up in chain reaction lololololol" for one.

[Casiella]

That seems fairly provocative. It got some response here, right?

I mean, you can make anything sound silly and trite. "hah hah greek dude kills his dad and bangs his own milf, wtf". So I can only assume your issue is the presentation, but your own representation of that seems a little, erm, light.

[Seriphyn]

They could have presented it a bit better, yes. That's literally what happened. A factory blew up, followed by a couple of "Shit, lol" posts.

[Desiderya]

So, the persons responsible just don't care about the loss of lives. How surprising. They are (successfully, without a doubt) portrayed as ruthless assholes. I consider that a success of the writer.
And I hardly count the quoted scene as a "shit, lol"-answer.

[Casiella]

That's sort of the point I was making: Seri, I feel like perhaps you've oversimplified what happens (the text about the reactor cores and replacing the children) to something that would be worthy of criticism, then criticizing that.

[Lyn Farel]

I am with Seriphyn on this one. This kind of things is just "too much", but it just follow a general tendancy in the current movies/video games/whatever when scenario always has to be "too much". Nothing subtle, everything like a "take that in your face" just to be sure people get it, and repeat it sometimes ad nauseam just to make it even more sure (people are not simpletons ffs). At the end all of this gets tasteless and worst : utterly ludicrous, where the spectator actually lose all the care he might have had for the subject.

You can make really gloomy and disturbing things with a lot more less. Take the movie Dancer in the Dark. It just tells the story of a woman that is sentenced to death for a crime she did not do. Why does that work ? Because it is not just about a random people (or even thousands of children, a mere statistic at this point), but about someone with a story (immigrant, alone, blind, etc) and a screenplay that works, show despair, emotion, etc.

If they had to make the player feel the emotions they wanted him to feel, they would have made something like showing the children in despair, for example. You can think of a crapload of gloomy and creepy sentences, dialogs, and even more important : successions of dialogs (that create the screenplay).

Or at the contrary if you want to show the lack of emotions of the people relating this, you firstly have to make the player feel emotions for the children, or whatever harsh is at stake, and then, show that people actually do not give a shit about them. And that means the script has to be good. It is an art to write dialogs.

Anyway, for what he has quoted here, I just feel the mere goal was just to shock people for the sake of shocking.

[Senn Typhos]

I'll once again point out that as a capsuleer, you've ended more lives in your first year of killing npcs and egger vessels than the Rwandan genocide.

So if "grimdark" is a problem, you'll have to carefully explain to me how slavery, prostitution and the indifference of a child's death, is worse than immolating the crews of pirate vessels and the like. There might be "levels of crime," if you will, or "levels of evil," but it's hard to beat mass murder.

[Seriphyn]

The use of slavery, prostitution and whatnot is apart of EVE yes, it is just how it is APPLIED is the issue. If they're going to create this grim universe, then you've got to apply it in a fictionally sound way, not cheaply and for the hell of it.

It's more than just inserting these things merely to say "'ey up, this is dark, yo". Explore the "bigger picture" (which has occured in other areas by CCP, I'm just referring to this specific case) of why these things happen, not just that they happen. Look at the Empyrean Age. Republic PM Midular was raped in it. Why? No reason. Similarly, Karsoth was sucked off and orally pleased by a bunch of drugged children for, also, no real reason, other than to make an instant hate figure. You telling me this is acceptable? Of course you're not. You gotta apply dark subjects in decent ways.

(Looking at it, the Federation epic arc is extremely ruthless. You slaughter Minmatar refugees, blow up an Intaki colony for ties to the Syndicate, and all such things, all to rescue just one Senator's son as the final goal. Whether that's a little OTT to get the point across, is another issue. I guess the Feds can use their extremely positive external image (Promised Land etc.) as a cover to do more insidious things.)

[Benjamin Shepherd]

I, on the other hand, find it hilarious that people would be offended by text.

[Orthic]

From a purely IC perspective, it probably won't make any of us bat an eye. The issue is that we also happen to be human beings outside the game world. While anyone who's played videogames is likely quite comfortable with racking up a body count in the hundreds, thousands, and millions, most of us still don't enjoy the thought of children dying, being forced into prostitution, etc. Those are unpleasant subjects to which we have not been desensitized (for the most part) like we have been with wanton death and destruction.

As for what CCP should do in this regard or how they should handle it, I'm not so sure. I generally look at everything from a "what does it do to improve the [product]" standpoint, in this case the game. Could it have been done better? It's EVE, everything can be done better. Does it detract from the game as it is? Seems to depend on who you are.

[Casiella]

In my opinion, off-hand remarks in a mission like those noted in the OP examples seem like a fairly subtle way of handling matters rather than in-your-face. While we can say that somebody didn't do something very well, I personally find it more convincing to illustrate with examples of how they could have done it more effectively.

I guess what I'm asking is: obviously, not liking how CCP handled things here is a perfectly valid PoV, but what would you think would have been a better way to handle it? Amann/Niki provided a few examples (likely in prep for his imminent return ), but are there other ways?

[Ken]

Ken, I didn't mean that as a criticism

No problem.  I didn't really take it as criticism, but see that you are looking for a more substantive attempt at providing an alternative and I'll try to offer one now...

One death is a tragedy, one million are a statistic.

As Senn points out:

you've ended more lives in your first year of killing npcs and egger vessels than the Rwandan genocide.

From an OOC perspective, the ludicrous amount of destruction of human lives that the average capsuleer combat pilot causes in the course of simply running a few L3/L4 missions (and the vacuum in which that destruction typically occurs; you never see escape pods or receive desperate pleas for mercy from rats, for example) can easily deaden the player to the emotional aspects of their character's indifference (if not conscious cruelty) in the face of such death.  The casualty figures are so high and the voice of the victims so muted that it is next to impossible to appreciate them in any other way than mathematics.

Cas, contrary to my earlier statement, or rather a refinement to it, I think you're right in that mission text and NPC call-outs in local could be a good way to get across the dark subtext of the EVE universe.  In the case of the OP quotes, as Desiderya points out:

the persons responsible just don't care about the loss of lives... [and] are (successfully, without a doubt) portrayed as ruthless assholes

Agreed.  The in-flight text has successfully characterized the actors in the story (however inconsequential they may be in the long run).

I consider that a success of the writer.

But with this assessment I do not agree.  The writer has portrayed the characters as evil, but the brevity of the dialogue and actions used to demonstrate this quality make them reprehensible in the same way as a cackling comic book villain complete with curly mustache.  It is almost as easy to dismiss the impact and meaning of the actions taking place as it is to dismiss the thousands of crew deaths one causes while running a mission.  The casual style of the dialogue, I think, is inappropriate when the element of tragedy in the scene derives not from the combat death of starship crews who knew of the risks they faced (and have already been marginalized as an element of emotional importance to the player by the violence of everyday gameplay), but of the exploitation, sexual assault, and death of children.

A better way to handle that might have been to drop hints in item descriptions and agent mission text leading up to the encounter where the facilities are destroyed that made it clear (if not obscenely obvious) the facilities were being used for illegal prostitution of minors, and other assorted crimes, etc.  Then, when actually in space at the site and the facilities are destroyed, the writer could have used a distress call in local from a child slave in the seconds before the explosion to put a face on the victim.  For example:

Upon entering the deadspace pocket, your sensors intercept low-level data traffic from Pleasure Hub indicating the facility is being used by the gang for rather nefarious purposes.

Overheard from Bloodsport Arena: "Let me take a look at that creature over there.  What a majestic specimen...  So, how easy are they to tie up?"

Overheard from Pleasure Hub: "The best part about this circus is all the exotic things you meet.  I thought you could only get them this young in Amarr."

Overheard from Gallente Outpost: "I asked for the best you had.  Look, this one is already growing a beard.  I can’t believe how much you’re asking for these."

Overheard from Casino: "I’ll get the money to you tomorrow. I swear I’m good for it. Please, let me see my daughter again."

Then, as the situation deteriorates with your presence and the whatever caused the facilities to explode begins to unfold:

Overheard from Pleasure Hub: "Hello?  Is anyone out there?  The bad men have all gone somewhere."
Overheard from Casino: "Dierdre, is that you?"
Overheard from Pleasure Hub: "Papa?  What's happening?  There's this loud banging and everyone is running!"
Overheard from Casino: "Dierdre!  Papa's here.  I'm here.  Papa loves you so much, pumpkin."
Overheard from Pleasure Hub: "I'm so scared, papa--"
*the pleasure hub explodes*
Overheard from Casino: "Dierdre?  Dierdre!!"
*the casino and other structures explode*

With the complexes gone, you pick up the former administrators transmissions from their escape craft:

And... we've lost another hub.  Do you have any idea how much money that cost us?

Try to be more subtle with your ‘accidents’ next time, Azoen.  It’s expensive to replace assets like those.

Rather than simply throwing child sex slavery and other things in the player's local window to be provocative, I have written a narrative (notice to carry over from the first casino intercept) that conveys the 'grimdark' theme, humanizes the victims, and still portrays the people responsible as callous and evil.  I did not, however, use the words "virgin", "screw", or "kids", and I would argue that the more subtle depiction and simple narrative actually adds a great deal of impact and meaning to the scene that it previous lacked.

[Crucifire]

I, on the other hand, find it hilarious that people would be offended by text.

Oh my god this.

[Desiderya]

Hm,
. You would choose to portray more of the suffering directly, the writer in question has chosen to portray it through the eyes of the offenders. Especially the brevity of those casual remarks shows that this is something that simply happens in the world - especially in the world of those who are responsible.
Where I do agree is that it certainly could use additional fleshing out.

Why? No reason.

Because there is none. Not everything happens for a reason, some things simply happen, and not because of those moustache twirling villains forging plans to take over ze world. Look at the real world. You'll see plenty of that stuff just happening.
George R.R. Martin or Joe Abercrombie are good examples for novelists in whose works bad things do happen, even to popular figures, and quite surprisingly, too.

[Ken]

Why? No reason.

Because there is none. Not everything happens for a reason, some things simply happen, and not because of those moustache twirling villains forging plans to take over ze world. Look at the real world. You'll see plenty of that stuff just happening.
George R.R. Martin or Joe Abercrombie are good examples for novelists in whose works bad things do happen, even to popular figures, and quite surprisingly, too.

Well, take for example the unexpected death that happens near the end of Martin's A Game of Thrones.  A major character with which the reader has been lead to identify closely is killed.  An emotional response is evoked as the link between the character and the reader is abruptly severed, and although Martin doesn't really let the character "say goodbye", making the scene particularly grim and "realistic", the death is not arbitrary to the story.  It affects the surviving characters in different ways and, I would argue, affects the reader in a significant way as well.  I had a strong emotional reaction to the scene, but ultimately realized how effective it was.  Martin uses uncaring and sudden violence to effectively engage the reader and build other characters.

Per that example, I think violence, cruelty, and general bloodymindedness can be depicted as arbitrary within the subjective world of a story, but still have a meaningful objective "take away" for a reader.  In the cases of Seri's examples from the Gallente epic arc, the (absolutely tasteless) rape scene in TEA, and in a broader sense the treatment of almost all capsuleer-caused destruction in EVE in general, I think there is little or no "take away" because the writers do not use the objectionable actions to develop anything, but rather, as Lyn said:

to shock people for the sake of shocking.

I may be overreaching by saying that all capsuleer-caused destruction in EVE goes unused for dramatic purpose, as The Burning Life did a decent job of showing the pain and suffering caused and giving it meaning, but very little of that shows up in the client when you're grinding "Worlds Collide" or some such.