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[Merdaneth]

You have the universe as CCP describes it, and the universe as it really is 'for the capsuleers'. Capsuleer society is obviously very different (in outlook and morality) than the cultures they originated from.

And as long as the Caldari Militia isn't refusing publicly gay pilots, then the perception will be that the Caldari don't care about the sexual orientation of their capsuleers.

Merdaneth's perception of capsuleer society in general is that it is very gay-unfriendly. Calling someone gay is one of the most frequently used insults in capsuleer society as far as Merdaneth is concerned.


The world is primarily what we make of it, and not what is written in dusty CCP tomes. If CCP says Amarr is highly religious, but no Amarr RP-ers do anything with religion, then Amarr capsuleers aren't religious.

For example: I really like the though that Amarr are not prone to coarse language and lots of curse words (let alone those involving God). So whenever someone does curse, Merdaneth often remarks upon it (and references it as not properly Amarrian). I hope that by acting this way, I am actually helping create the image among capsuleers that Amarrian's think poorly of cursing. I also believe that doing so is way more effective than waving obscure CCP lore about.

[lallara zhuul]

Uhhh.

Amarrians are not racist.

It's about religion, not about race.

[DosTuMai]

You are one of the few Amarr RP'ers I've seen that take the religious side seriously, Merdaneth. But that doesn't mean that all the others are lip-service worshipers.
The Caldari are very Chinese in the way EVE has written the background for them, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were very xenophobic & homophobic. But that's just my experience.

Capsuleers are effectively a Faction all of their own. Their loyalties can change with a whim and they're hard to control. I'd think most people would be if they're found to be demi-mortal. I know I would, I'd expect to be treated as a Goddess by lowly mortals, and that's how I play Dossie.

political correctness is rife everywhere, it's an unfortunate aspect of modern life.
But whatever, I could care less about political correctness. If I want to tease someone for being a short-ass, I will. Hell, it's not easy to be shorter than my epic 160cm, so I'll take every opportunity I can.
Again, Dossie is much like me with 'being PC.' And that is; if you're short, you're short. Not vertically challenged. It's all complete and utter crap. People are people and should be expected to have varying points of view on subjects, even if they're family members.

[Alain Colcer]

This is why I have opposed efforts to paint the Caldari as racist, efforts which you have spearheaded, Seriphyn. I remember that you were, not too long ago, trying to portray them as discriminating against the Achura, though that died pretty quick when the info for the Achura and Suvee was updated. The reasoning behind my opposition is not so much that I hate the idea of the Caldari being racist (though I feel there is no more evidence for it than that the Minmatar are, and less evidence than for the Gallente being so), is that I know that branding the Caldari as much gives every Fed RPer the means - which they will undoubtedly take - to condemn me as a person in some way or another for RPing the Caldari.

The above, is why i have change most of my RP posts to not "label" people one way or another, but say they have chosen a path or another.....slight distinction, but one that tries to stay away from implying the player is a racist/homophobic/xeno-whatever and therefore chose such RP choices to support his/her view on such RL topics.

Personally, i believe many people often apply and use their personal and "RL" morality, into the game......Itsvaan taught me otherwise really.......its what drove me away the first time.....after understanding it, i came back.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

Uhhh.

Amarrians are not racist.

It's about religion, not about race.

I believe you may be mistaken here.

Yes, it is about religion. However the religion specifically states that True Amarr are superior to all other races and in a position of dominance over them. That is racist.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

Players need to worry about their own character's behavior and stop trying to piece together the ooc motivations of other players. The capsuleer elite can be eccentric enough to have their own opinions and standards to justify anything in character....as merdeneth pointed out.

Also, communism isn't inherently immoral, unless you're vehemently opposed to collectivism.

Also, the Amarr faith espouses their race as a chosen people to serve God's will. There is definitely a disparity of racial origin; if that isn't racism I don't know what is...

[DosTuMai]

Uhhh.

Amarrians are not racist.

It's about religion, not about race.

I believe you may be mistaken here.

Yes, it is about religion. However the religion specifically states that True Amarr are superior to all other races and in a position of dominance over them. That is racist.

^This is true.
It's in a way like Hitler's Arian race that he was throwing out as 'percfect & God's chosen'. In the end it's all described as despicable and wrong once the religion changes/dies.

Anyway, last post on this topic before I say something that'll offend someone or something.

[Z.Sinraali]

It's a game. If someone enjoys playing a -ist of any sort, or dealing with those themes, more power to them. If not, that's cool too. I'll be over here in my corner of the sandbox doing what I enjoy.

[Lyn Farel]

Uhhh.

Amarrians are not racist.

It's about religion, not about race.

I believe you may be mistaken here.

Yes, it is about religion. However the religion specifically states that True Amarr are superior to all other races and in a position of dominance over them. That is racist.

Technically it is untrue, depending on how you read the Scriptures. Although it is quite obvious that the standard view you describe is usually accepted by default by most.

[Valdezi]

I kinda see what you're saying, Seri; let me see if I understand you -

There are things that, due to the dominant RL moral paradigm, we OOCly see as morally questionable about each faction, such as Homophobia, slavery etc.

What it is I'm not sure of is... so? What's your point exactly? Are you saying that people are applying this conventional morality too much in their RP?

I'm not sure that's true, if that is your argument. Moral systems which don't fit RL convention actually dominate EVE RP, the way I see it. Take the amount of capsuleers on this very board who engage in activities we would call morally questionable - most, if not all, depending on how this is measured.

If I've misunderstood your argument, please correct me.

[lallara zhuul]

"Our Lord visited his flock and saw that all was not good.

Blasphemy and heresy ruled the land.

The Lord punished the sinners and drowned them in their own blood.

But the people of Amarr lived righteously and in fear of God.

Thus they were saved and became God's chosen one."

## The Scriptures. Book II.

Amarrians were not the Chosen because of their race.

They became the Chosen because they 'lived righteously and in fear of God', in other words they never lost Faith or turned away from God even though things went poorly.

The reason for becoming the Chosen is purely religious.

Also slavery is not just limited to 'lesser races' there are Amarrians that are slaves as well, there is a chron that states clearly so where a former Holder is a slave of another one. If slavery would be purely racial, then no race after the True Amarrians would gain their freedom through the service to the God/Empire like the Ni-Kunni or the Udorians.

I believe, like Seriphyn, that there is a lot of OOC bleedout into the game from the players own worldviews as those exhibited around them in real life.

Most of the views exhibited on the Amarrians by the players and their characters is because of the fact that they are not familiar with some of the aspects of the Amarrian mindset, a mindset where religion includes all aspects of life.

Even in real world, slavery is not based on race, it is based on other reasons, usually economical and historically sometimes to integrate the conquered people into the culture of the dominant culture (like in British Isles and the Roman Empire), but when economical realities are part of the religion they come under the same category because of the mindset of a person that believes that religion covers every aspect of their lives therefore also their decisions.

I hope that clears it up a little bit.

There are many aspects that can be perceived within the Amarrian culture as racist, like the purity of the bloodlines and all that, but even those are based on the perceived purity coming from the length of time that the whole lineage has spent in service of God.

I could go for a whole thread hijack about this, but I think I have gone through these things elsewhere and I really do not have time to go into this more because I need some sleep.

[Benjamin Shepherd]

I just ignore my RL beliefs and ethics and do what EVE's universe does. I cannot and will not base any actual political or religious beliefs in a game, because it's just that: A game. A means to escape and a fun enjoyable activity.

I find it laughable that people would use OOC reasoning to show that a certain race is better or not something when it is indeed something.

[Seriphyn]

You have the universe as CCP describes it, and the universe as it really is 'for the capsuleers'. Capsuleer society is obviously very different (in outlook and morality) than the cultures they originated from.

And as long as the Caldari Militia isn't refusing publicly gay pilots, then the perception will be that the Caldari don't care about the sexual orientation of their capsuleers.

Merdaneth's perception of capsuleer society in general is that it is very gay-unfriendly. Calling someone gay is one of the most frequently used insults in capsuleer society as far as Merdaneth is concerned.


The world is primarily what we make of it, and not what is written in dusty CCP tomes. If CCP says Amarr is highly religious, but no Amarr RP-ers do anything with religion, then Amarr capsuleers aren't religious.

For example: I really like the though that Amarr are not prone to coarse language and lots of curse words (let alone those involving God). So whenever someone does curse, Merdaneth often remarks upon it (and references it as not properly Amarrian). I hope that by acting this way, I am actually helping create the image among capsuleers that Amarrian's think poorly of cursing. I also believe that doing so is way more effective than waving obscure CCP lore about.

This is actually a very good point.The large amount of Achuran capsuleers might make someone feel they are the most prevalant EVE race, for example, when reality they might just be 10% of the total population of the smallest state. Players habitually use capsuleering and game mechanics as a reference point for "PF realities" (a problem on CCP's part). For example, Caldari ships for PvP generally suck, yet the Caldari Navy doesn't. This is explained by "capsule-to-ship protocols" versus the actual ship itself, if one knows what I mean.

There is also a lot of Westernization in EVE RP too. Saying "I love you" is a VERY Western thing, and is not practiced in most cultures of the world. That said, with Merdaneth's theory of a separate "capsuleer culture" which may just be predominantly Gallentean by virtue of its exterme liberalism.

[hellgremlin]

I RP Istvaan as intensely homophobic. Which is fun since Istvaan has an associate named Joaquin Farrad, who is meadow-skippingly, unicorn-ridingly gay. Interesting interaction between those two chars.

A bit of this also came out during Revan's event.

[Revan Neferis]

I RP Istvaan as intensely homophobic. Which is fun since Istvaan has an associate named Joaquin Farrad, who is meadow-skippingly, unicorn-ridingly gay. Interesting interaction between those two chars.

A bit of this also came out during Revan's event.

Yes, it was interesting to watch your interactions with Darv for sure.

On the subject itself, I don't see an issue here. People pretty much play their characters at free mode nowadays, there isn't such attachment to PF or anything like it was a few years ago when absolutely everything would be questioned and taken very seriously into the context of the character, for example, an Amarr would be called upon his race, his position towards purity / non purity, his political affiliation [ Sarumite, etc] Pro-Doriam, anti / pro Pax Amarrian and so on.
It took a lot more to introduce a character to a line of rp than it takes nowadays when barely a "hello, im a new capsuleer give me cookies" seem to be enough.
In that aspect, the "moralities" applied also had a lot of more weight than it has now. So I don't believe that people avoid touching such aspects of rp because of some ooc sensitive approach towards such things, maybe it's just not really an interesting aspect to explore.

Even the slaver/ non slaver / slavery etc hardcore rp is already massively tiresome and repetitive to read if you have been role playing for a few years and reading the same stuff over and over, add to that homophobia and other prejudices to the plate and I guess it would be umberable boring at this point.
Maybe the pattern of avoidance giving highlight to such aspects is just common sense.