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[Esna Pitoojee]

Honestly, I think between Ciarente and Graanvlokkie, the issue was hit perfectly. Certain issues, especially relating towards matters of power and the abuse of such, can get to us (I refer all those here to the "Things in RP that OOC disturb me" thread from a while back). These feelings, at times, may effect how we react not just to characters who take those views, but the players behind them as well.

I'd also postulate that Amarr and Sansha at least may come under more fire for being "evil" because their evil is easier and frankly more believable to play. An Amarr can say he owns (or tortures/kills/captures) lots of slaves, and by and large the OOC community response is "Well, okay. You're Amarr." (Yes, it's a lot more nuanced than that, but I'm generalizing.)

When a Gallentean tries to play their brand of "evil" - i.e., freedom at any cost, unless done extremely carefully it can easily provoke responses ranging from "Godmodding!" to "Capsuleers don't have any roles in that!" to "Meh." etc etc. (For example, try claiming you've effected a massive effort to remove hundreds of thousands of dissenters from the State, some from Provist prisons. I suspect there will be just as much a response of "well, how did you pull that off, huh?!" as actually going along with the RP.)


Or I could be pulling at straws.



And yes, CCP needs to publish these sudden changes in PF, dammit. And rationalize them a bit more.   

[Natalcya Katla]

I'm willing to defend my character Ruby as being morally good in an OOC sense, simply because she acts out of genuine compassion for others. Even when she turns innocent janitors into True Slaves to serve as parents for her orphans, she honestly believes she's elevating them to a higher level of existence.

Edit: I do consider her actions to be morally wrong OOC, and the logic her perception of reality and morality is based on is quite twisted. I'll not be called a complete moral relativist. Still, in terms of her motives alone, she is quite nice.

Katla, on the other hand, is a reptile. 

[Vikarion]

When a Gallentean tries to play their brand of "evil" - i.e., freedom at any cost, unless done extremely carefully it can easily provoke responses ranging from "Godmodding!" to "Capsuleers don't have any roles in that!" to "Meh." etc etc. (For example, try claiming you've effected a massive effort to remove hundreds of thousands of dissenters from the State, some from Provist prisons. I suspect there will be just as much a response of "well, how did you pull that off, huh?!" as actually going along with the RP.)

How would that be "evil", anyway? I could certainly see calls of "godmodding" if someone did that - the only provist prisons we know of according to PF are the POW camps on Caldari Prime. If you want an evil Gallentean, there's a lot more PF for race supremacist and ultranationalist terrorist organizations (look up some of the old news articles). The Caldari/Gallente war Chrons, combined with the statements from the Gallente FW ranks lead one pretty conclusively to believe that there is a large genocidal streak in the Gallente. There's certainly just as much arrogance as the Amarr have, combined with a feeling of being the "chosen people", albeit in this case it is because they were the first to "discover freedom".

Let's not make the mistake of assuming that Gallente democracy is like our modern democracy. It appears to not only be far more militant, but also far more intolerant of other cultural traditions and mores.

[Silver Night]

[mod]I just want to comment here and make sure people keep within the guidelines. This has gone from a somewhat worrying start to be a very decent discussion, and I would like to see it stays that way.[/mod]

[Esna Pitoojee]

How would that be "evil", anyway? I could certainly see calls of "godmodding" if someone did that - the only provist prisons we know of according to PF are the POW camps on Caldari Prime. If you want an evil Gallentean, there's a lot more PF for race supremacist and ultranationalist terrorist organizations (look up some of the old news articles). The Caldari/Gallente war Chrons, combined with the statements from the Gallente FW ranks lead one pretty conclusively to believe that there is a large genocidal streak in the Gallente. There's certainly just as much arrogance as the Amarr have, combined with a feeling of being the "chosen people", albeit in this case it is because they were the first to "discover freedom".

Let's not make the mistake of assuming that Gallente democracy is like our modern democracy. It appears to not only be far more militant, but also far more intolerant of other cultural traditions and mores.

True enough point - making a hostile character can result in much more potent RP than making hostile (written) RP actions. I was trying to compare two (more or less) equal events; i.e., Amarrians transit borders to capture slaves, Gallenteans to free dissenters. Both involve violation of the sovereign borders of another nation and quite possibly deaths among any form of defending forces, both are likely to cause powerful social upset both among those who are taken away and those who are left behind in the aftermath of the raids, and both are undertaken on the basis that the actors' philosiphy is the "only right way" and opposing views are clearly wrong. But, one action is (in my view) far more commonly viewed as a "good" action than another, due in part to the OOC sensibilities mentioned in earlier posts.

Should have made that more clear.

[Louella Dougans]

"Religion is a terminal illness whose symptoms include the loss of common sense, humility, rational thinking, and in your case, moral decency."

- Gallente Ambassador Jacques Allirou, Caille Summit, 23220

This is in Theodicy.

Gallente ambassador insults the Intaki, who form the majority of the Federation civil service, hmm.

[GoGo Yubari]

"Religion is a terminal illness whose symptoms include the loss of common sense, humility, rational thinking, and in your case, moral decency."

- Gallente Ambassador Jacques Allirou, Caille Summit, 23220

This is in Theodicy.

Gallente ambassador insults the Intaki, who form the majority of the Federation civil service, hmm.

¡Viva la Revolución!

[Seriphyn]

TonyG is pretty obsessed with this "Amarr religion is evil" thing, if I remember from TEA, with Karsoth getting pleasured by drugged up slave children for LOL LOOK HOW BAD AMARR IS LOLOL PAEDOPHILIA.

So that Gallente comment is unsurprising, despite the Federation and all its differing religions, constitutional protection of free religion and so on

Etc.

[Silas Vitalia]

Tony G took a crap on EVE fiction and we all paid him for it. Worst bunch of nonsense ever.

TonyG is pretty obsessed with this "Amarr religion is evil" thing, if I remember from TEA, with Karsoth getting pleasured by drugged up slave children for LOL LOOK HOW BAD AMARR IS LOLOL PAEDOPHILIA.

So that Gallente comment is unsurprising, despite the Federation and all its differing religions, constitutional protection of free religion and so on

Etc.

[Silver Night]

[mod]Much though I might agree with the sentiment, please keep criticism constructive.[/mod]

[Silas Vitalia]

Much though I might agree with the sentiment, please keep criticism constructive.

Yes, I am err, amazed at the patience and niceness of the eve RP community in accepting Tony G's wisdom and masterful fiction-altering abilities.

* Point taken, no more comments here on this *

[Hamish Grayson]

TonyG is pretty obsessed with this "Amarr religion is evil" thing, if I remember from TEA, with Karsoth getting pleasured by drugged up slave children for LOL LOOK HOW BAD AMARR IS LOLOL PAEDOPHILIA.

So that Gallente comment is unsurprising, despite the Federation and all its differing religions, constitutional protection of free religion and so on

Etc.

And the Caldari Megacorps are Evil thing.   And the Gallentean's are the extremly virile and studly saviors of humanity thing.

[Seriphyn]

Yes, from TEA, I got that TonyG is very biased towards Gallente/Minmatar. The whole portrayal of Gallente Federation was a Tom Clancy-esque US up against the evil invading Russians etc. Caldari led by a twitchy racist against the helpless democratic nation that fight gloriously (even if defeated) against ze invadors.

[Hamish Grayson]

Much though I might agree with the sentiment, please keep criticism constructive.

  Silver's right, it's not right to bash for bashings sake.  We should be constructive in our criticisms by explaining what could be done to correct what we perceive as mistakes on the part of CCP.

  I'll start.
 
It would be a wise executive decision on CCP's part if they retconed TEA, fired Tony, and made a public apology for what they've done.

[Kaleigh Doyle]

Tony G. may not have a degree in EVE LORE, but he could give the guy who wrote The Burning Life some tips. At least I was engaged throughout Empyrean Age, while I could neither like the characters (in TBL) or story they were immersed in, let alone the writing style of the author. "And then the guys did stuff and a couple weeks passed and then they went here...and then this happened." *falls asleep* I realize it might have been a wet dream for the EVE BIBLE folks for background info ("ur doing it wrong. it says they do this in TBL on page 56!"), but getting through it was a chore for me.

But that's my personal opinion, and most certainly a matter of taste.

What is this thread about anyway?