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Author Topic: Railroaded?  (Read 8130 times)

Seriphyn

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Railroaded?
« on: 23 Jan 2011, 20:37 »

Not sure how many of you were active during today's alleged 'live' event but what do people think? Was it one big strong arm by CCP? Yulai was impossible, and Sansha victory was guaranteed when it was taking me 45 minutes to log back in. Promised Land well...two of those super tough revenants were repping each other...even if the antination lot won the fleet battle, they never would have had the DPS...

It's a shame, I think. CCP forced this story event through, it just had to happen for next patch. But makes you wonder if the lowsec event was crashed by a nullsec alliance and destroyed the Sansha...how would CCP taken the story then?
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HouseofSebtin

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Re: Railroaded?
« Reply #1 on: 23 Jan 2011, 23:57 »

Well I was at Promised Land shooting at you with my Rifter of Doom.  :P


I wasn't at Yulai but there was a decent fleet and a decent FC for the lowsec event, it is just that for most of the time we were shooting at the "pirates" or whoever the dudes with GCC were. I think the FC told us to get while we can because a lot of gatecamps were being formed up.

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Z.Sinraali

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Re: Railroaded?
« Reply #2 on: 24 Jan 2011, 02:45 »

What did Sansha accomplish today anyways? Built a couple wormholes? Big whoop. If the ships were to get blowed up, the wormhole LCO isn't poofed into existence by CCP. Incursions as an in-game feature are hardly dependent on it.
« Last Edit: 24 Jan 2011, 14:33 by Z.Sinraali »
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Senn Typhos

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Re: Railroaded?
« Reply #3 on: 24 Jan 2011, 03:49 »

Events aren't mandatory. Nor is making it personal when things didn't go your way.

Anyone who's been to Jita should have expected a lot of lag. vOv
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Rodj Blake

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Re: Railroaded?
« Reply #4 on: 24 Jan 2011, 04:12 »



The Revenants never actually repaired each other to my knowledge since no one ever attacked them.

I was shooting at them for quite a while.   But it's hard to make dent when you're on your own  :cry:
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Seriphyn

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Re: Railroaded?
« Reply #5 on: 24 Jan 2011, 06:19 »

I'm not even a mod but I think this discussion is important and should remain civil. Now, CCP should have been expecting that many pilots in Yulai...one can't expect people to not go because of potential lag. As for lowsec, many of us were so disheartened by that point, that we decided to say the hell with it.

Lag or no, however, it seems this event had to go down like this. There was no victory, so to speak, just riding the choo choo train.
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Vikarion

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Re: Railroaded?
« Reply #6 on: 24 Jan 2011, 06:52 »

I'd call it railroading. But this entire arc has been railroaded: I haven't seen a single instance where the players made any sort of difference to the storyline.

And what did you expect? CCP is putting out an expansion. They know their systems, and their game, and they designed it so that their expansion couldn't be torpedoed. Really, what else could they do? "I'm sorry, folks, but the players in Yulai just ended our expansion"?

No, the reason to participate in these storylines is for bounties and prestige, and nothing else. You will never have an effect on the story if doing so would change what CCP can do. Which, largely, means that players will never have any large scale effect on the story. That's just the reality of playing in an MMORPG.
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Mizhara

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Re: Railroaded?
« Reply #7 on: 24 Jan 2011, 07:00 »

Railroading is bandied about as a purely negative term here too, and I just don't see it. For a good, strong narrative you need some events to go certain ways. A 'suppose to lose' fight is what it is for a reason. They happen all the time in singleplayer games in order to further the story. There's the Quake 4 bit where you're taken down and turned into a Borg or whatever they called them. There's Darkest of Days intro where you're on the losing side in a giant battle and supposed to die, but get saved. Would suck if you could just be good enough to own all the injuns and go "naw, I'm good" to the saviour and make the whole game fall apart in the first level. There's that fight in Dragon Age: Origins that I stupidly kept reloading because I though I just sucked... until I realized I was meant to lose and be captured.

There's so many reasons why railroading is a good thing that I have no problem with it if it's used right. An event like this? Fuck yeah, railroading is good because the story demands this even to happen.
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Seriphyn

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Re: Railroaded?
« Reply #8 on: 24 Jan 2011, 07:48 »

You (Miz and Vik) are certainly right about that. I suppose the core issue is that, since these are live events, there is the presumption that one can go in and make a difference. This is propagated moreso by the fact we have Sansha RPers OOC claiming victory and/or our defeat when it wouldn't go any other way.

Guess the feeling of "having an effect" is just meant to be an illusion. The alternative is watching news items spew out while we're all mysteriously docked up in station.

And naturally, I agree with Bloodbird. Though I am less averse to IC claims of victory.
« Last Edit: 24 Jan 2011, 07:50 by Seriphyn »
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Tiberius Wenchel

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Re: Railroaded?
« Reply #9 on: 24 Jan 2011, 07:55 »

Is anyone really surprised by this? I've been to several of these events, Yulai included, and they've all been a nasty disaster. Large fleet mechanics are poorly designed, the story is hamfisted to begin with, and the quality of the writing being voiced by the actors is terrible.
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Railroaded?
« Reply #10 on: 24 Jan 2011, 07:56 »

Railroading is bandied about as a purely negative term here too, and I just don't see it. For a good, strong narrative you need some events to go certain ways. A 'suppose to lose' fight is what it is for a reason. They happen all the time in singleplayer games in order to further the story.

Singleplayer game. Well then.

You talk about strong narrative.

When one side is supposed to lose, and that side's participation is voluntary, i.e. they're not CCP actors paid to be there and lose, then... why are they going to turn up? What's in it for them?

It's like a thing I saw on a forum somewhere, someone was asking for people to participate in a prisoner escape thing. To play the roles of the incompetent prison guards who are letting someone escape. There were no volunteers, because they had absolutely nothing to benefit from doing so.

When you have "supposed to lose", the players taking that side will be remembered as the ones that lost. Participation is going to be very, very low. It's recruiting from a minority of a minority.

And when there's "supposed to lose", and you're not being paid for your equipment, clones or implants, then... you're not going to use your best ships, you're not going to be particularly bothered about tactics, and you're just not going to care.

I don't see how that creates "good strong narrative".
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Myyona

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Re: Railroaded?
« Reply #11 on: 24 Jan 2011, 08:05 »

Bah, I attacked a Sansha supercarrier in a Minmatar tech 1 industrial and did not get a scratch.

Not exactly impressive display of military strength from Sansha side, I would say.
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Borza

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Re: Railroaded?
« Reply #12 on: 24 Jan 2011, 08:05 »

You (Miz and Vik) are certainly right about that. I suppose the core issue is that, since these are live events, there is the presumption that one can go in and make a difference.

Where did you get that idea?  Ullia Hnolku warping to the wrong location lol.

Event arcs are planned. There's some leeway here and there but I'd never expect to significantly change the conclusion. Playing a part in the story is still meaningful for many people.
« Last Edit: 24 Jan 2011, 08:09 by Borza »
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Mizhara

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Re: Railroaded?
« Reply #13 on: 24 Jan 2011, 08:37 »

Louella, you are still part of the story. You play your part in an event where you lose. If winning is the requirement for playing, then why the hell are we playing Eve in the first place?
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BloodBird

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Re: Railroaded?
« Reply #14 on: 24 Jan 2011, 08:56 »

Louella, you are still part of the story. You play your part in an event where you lose. If winning is the requirement for playing, then why the hell are we playing Eve in the first place?

Winning is not a requirement for most people, but it would be nice if it is, at the very least, and OPTION.

Do you honestly think that, if CCP went out and said "This is our live events and they WILL go our way, regardless of what you do or however much you struggle" that people would bother X'ing up in SYNE or other places, just to go see their efforts pushed aside to the chorus of laughing sansha-loyalists enjoying their wise choice of joining the auto-win train, instead of, I don't know, trying to oppose the Sansha?

Logical answer: No-one would care. No-one would X up. None would show up. People may not need to be gauranteed to win to do anything, but be sure that none would care if everyone knew without a shadow of doubht that losing was guaranteed. Winning must be a realistic option as well.

CCP can make it happen, easily. Write a scenario. Add two outcomes; victory, or defeat. Add follow-up scenarios detailing what happens if they win/lose. Enact scenario one. Pick the following scenario that fits the results of the first.

Carry on from point one.
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