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Author Topic: Population questions  (Read 8387 times)

Borza

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Re: Population questions
« Reply #15 on: 20 Jan 2011, 05:11 »

To go on a small tangent and address ships specifically I've always thought that the stated crew sizes are the maximums and vary depending on sp and possibly hardwiring implants. As the pilot's ability to interface with his ships and modules increases the crew needed would decrease. So a newbie would indeed have a (small) crew on a frigate while a more experienced capsuleer would fly it solo. Same with other hull types, though unlikely to reach zero crew.
Perhaps for some more advanced ships like T2, T3 designed during the capsuleer age the crew reqs would also be lower than the T1 hulls they're based on - systems optimised for pod interface from the ground up.

So the way I look at things a capsuleer new to battleships would need a crew of 600 while one with significant experience might manage with 200-300. A pilot with the equivalent of all V skills and 5% implants could maybe manage with 100-150 crew on a BS.
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Rodj Blake

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Re: Population questions
« Reply #16 on: 20 Jan 2011, 07:04 »

Let's say I have 10 fitted battleships at a typical station. That's 60,000 crew right there. Add in other capsuleers, NPC vessels, and then all the people catering to these crew. You will be over a million pretty fast. What happens to a station when 20 Carriers dock and a large part of the crew goes to find some R&R?

I assume the crew stays aboard their ship, cause if their capsuleer tries to undock and they get a message (Sorry, we're just rounding up the last of the shore leave) he might decide to get a new crew.
Naw. Most Eve players spend the majority of the day logged off. When the Captain's in bed, the crew hits the port of call.

I suspect that stations would only have a small permanent population (somewhere in the thousands) and a massive transient population that is in station for business or R&R. Think Quarks bar in DS9, a handful of Ferengi and Dabo girls servicing all the people about to go through the wormhole. This fits into my own backstory, hundred-thousand people living out of freighters moving from station to station for work.



A typical Eve station is far, far bigger than DS9.    I'd be surprised if they held less than a million people.
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Svetlana Scarlet

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Re: Population questions
« Reply #17 on: 20 Jan 2011, 09:54 »

A typical Eve station is far, far bigger than DS9.    I'd be surprised if they held less than a million people.

The Malkalen catastrophe killed something like 150,000 people -- considering the extent of the damage, I would be surprised if that was not a significant portion of the station's crew. Considering this was the headquarters of one of the largest corporations in Eve, it seems unlikely that there are a great many stations with more people living on them; I suspect your numbers are a little high.
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Elsebeth Rhiannon

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Re: Population questions
« Reply #18 on: 20 Jan 2011, 10:43 »

Where do you get the 150k, and them being majority? EVElopedia says "The estimated death toll stood at 421,000 with as many persons remaining unaccounted", plus talks of a relief effort (for the living and accounted for). This puts the count to at least to 850k. I'd give the total a very good chance of being above million.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Year_YC110#The_Malkalen_Incident
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Population questions
« Reply #19 on: 20 Jan 2011, 10:49 »

There are a lot of unmarked inhabited places.

Solar collector, astrofarm, habitation module, and you have a spacevillage.
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Invelious

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Re: Population questions
« Reply #20 on: 20 Jan 2011, 11:32 »

Well, the way I see it,  there is over 50,000 active capsuleers. Calculate the average of ships each one owns from Super Caps, Capitals and sub capitals. You don't even need to do math to know that there are more people living in our fitted ships sitting in hangers ready to fight and die then there are living on the planets throughout all of new eden.

Which now begs the question. How is that possible?
« Last Edit: 20 Jan 2011, 11:35 by Invelious »
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hellgremlin

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Re: Population questions
« Reply #21 on: 20 Jan 2011, 12:06 »

Well, the way I see it,  there is over 50,000 active capsuleers. Calculate the average of ships each one owns from Super Caps, Capitals and sub capitals. You don't even need to do math to know that there are more people living in our fitted ships sitting in hangers ready to fight and die then there are living on the planets throughout all of new eden.

Which now begs the question. How is that possible?
Capsuleer generally pilots one ship at a time. The ones in left in hangars are docked with the crew on leave, or dismissed altogether?
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Invelious

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Re: Population questions
« Reply #22 on: 20 Jan 2011, 12:19 »

So a fitted ship sitting in a hanger has no crew ready to undock at the whim of the Capsuleer?
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Z.Sinraali

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Re: Population questions
« Reply #23 on: 20 Jan 2011, 14:19 »

Cross-training is a wonderful thing. Just move the crew over from your other ship.

As for the original query, I just go with 'trillions' and call it good.
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DosTuMai

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Re: Population questions
« Reply #24 on: 20 Jan 2011, 14:29 »

Simple scramble order from 'Scotty' would suffice. It doesn't make sense to think that each and every of my 53 ships has people on them 24/7 as I'd be paying more money a month than I earn for their wages.
Also - if you think about it - it'll take more than 30 seconds to disengage the capsule, drop out the vessel, move it then slide into another ship. Maybe 5 minutes would be a better estimate.

Station contents would be somewhere between 250,000 and 1,000,000 dependent on station size with a predominantly roaming population. You'd only need 50,000 crew to run the station's systems and other general sanitation stuff - with another 10,000 bodies to run stores for supplies, bars etc.
Including personnel, merchants and families... 75,000 permanent inhabitants for a small station, maybe?
But, that doesn't answer the planet-side inhabitants.
Terraformation would take around 500-2,000 people including the camp follower types (cooks, maintenance, sanitation etc.) with planetary populations anything from a few thousand to billions. There are a lot of planets in the New Eden cluster that can, do, and could possibly hold people.
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Svetlana Scarlet

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Re: Population questions
« Reply #25 on: 20 Jan 2011, 14:37 »

Where do you get the 150k, and them being majority? EVElopedia says "The estimated death toll stood at 421,000 with as many persons remaining unaccounted", plus talks of a relief effort (for the living and accounted for). This puts the count to at least to 850k. I'd give the total a very good chance of being above million.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Year_YC110#The_Malkalen_Incident

Okay, evidently I badly misremembered that...I swear the number was way lower.  If that's right, then I'm quite wrong (obviously).
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Invelious

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Re: Population questions
« Reply #26 on: 20 Jan 2011, 15:14 »

Simple scramble order from 'Scotty' would suffice. It doesn't make sense to think that each and every of my 53 ships has people on them 24/7 as I'd be paying more money a month than I earn for their wages.
Also - if you think about it - it'll take more than 30 seconds to disengage the capsule, drop out the vessel, move it then slide into another ship. Maybe 5 minutes would be a better estimate.


Common and very plausible scenerio: You get blow up. Make one jump over to the next system where you have ships stored(fitted). The aggressors follow you, your friends also arrive in that system for support. A battle ensues. You dock, jump into a battleship. Undock, fight, die, dock. rinse and repeat this about 10 times. Maybe more depending on where you are at.

Given the death rate you are suffering its most likely a 0.0 battle and the pilot total in local is in the 100's. You alone dying about 10 times in that fight along side your friends, whom many of them died and reshipped, would already indicate that the ships in station, and the pilots on them dwarf the person capacity of that station.

It would be more logical to assume that our vessels would contain living quarters for the pilots in order to house those numbers. Otherwise, thinking that your entire ship staff for all your vessels are gingerly chilling in the station is absurd. One capsuleer alone can have enough people under his crew to fill a stations capacity. Now multiply that but all your pod pilot buddies that have ships in that station and operate out of that area.
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Z.Sinraali

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Re: Population questions
« Reply #27 on: 20 Jan 2011, 15:21 »

Common and very plausible scenerio: You get blow up. Make one jump over to the next system where you have ships stored(fitted). The aggressors follow you, your friends also arrive in that system for support. A battle ensues. You dock, jump into a battleship. Undock, fight, die, dock. rinse and repeat this about 10 times. Maybe more depending on where you are at.

Given the death rate you are suffering its most likely a 0.0 battle and the pilot total in local is in the 100's. You alone dying about 10 times in that fight along side your friends, whom many of them died and reshipped, would already indicate that the ships in station, and the pilots on them dwarf the person capacity of that station.

It would be more logical to assume that our vessels would contain living quarters for the pilots in order to house those numbers. Otherwise, thinking that your entire ship staff for all your vessels are gingerly chilling in the station is absurd. One capsuleer alone can have enough people under his crew to fill a stations capacity. Now multiply that but all your pod pilot buddies that have ships in that station and operate out of that area.

That's not a very compelling argument when your and a hundred buddies' ships is already more volume than the entire station.
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Louella Dougans

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Re: Population questions
« Reply #28 on: 20 Jan 2011, 15:26 »

in the Great War era, the ships of the British Royal Navy were larger than the ships of the German Imperial Navy.
This was because the RN ships were often on long transits to and from the distant possessions of the British Empire, and even when in port, the crews stayed aboard ship.
In contrast, the IN ships did not go on long cruises, and when in port, the bulk of the crews stayed ashore, not onboard. Long cruises were uncomfortable.
This meant the German ships could carry more guns, more armour, more engines for a given displacement than the RN ships.

So, the ships in EVE are probably more along the British model than the German one.
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Invelious

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Re: Population questions
« Reply #29 on: 20 Jan 2011, 15:45 »

Common and very plausible scenerio: You get blow up. Make one jump over to the next system where you have ships stored(fitted). The aggressors follow you, your friends also arrive in that system for support. A battle ensues. You dock, jump into a battleship. Undock, fight, die, dock. rinse and repeat this about 10 times. Maybe more depending on where you are at.

Given the death rate you are suffering its most likely a 0.0 battle and the pilot total in local is in the 100's. You alone dying about 10 times in that fight along side your friends, whom many of them died and reshipped, would already indicate that the ships in station, and the pilots on them dwarf the person capacity of that station.

It would be more logical to assume that our vessels would contain living quarters for the pilots in order to house those numbers. Otherwise, thinking that your entire ship staff for all your vessels are gingerly chilling in the station is absurd. One capsuleer alone can have enough people under his crew to fill a stations capacity. Now multiply that but all your pod pilot buddies that have ships in that station and operate out of that area.

That's not a very compelling argument when your and a hundred buddies' ships is already more volume than the entire station.

Exactly, I was only establishing a everyday occurance in EVE, and how absurd it is to think that so many normal citizens are at our disposal. The entire concept of having a crew on our ships is retarded. It would be apt to have our vessels supported by multiple AI programs with specific functions in communication with the pod pilot that is plugged in. Rather then a physical crew of people.
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