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[Saede Riordan]

That is an extremely bald head.

When I first saw the head, I thought it was Kane, about to turn around and give me new orders against the GDI.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought that.

[Myrhial Arkenath]

^

Also, I hope they can create what they want and promise. If done well, this could get very interesting.

[Aria Jenneth]

The thing I'm most curious about is how they're going to handle death.

WoD vampires are even more vulnerable than capsuleers. Sure, there are only a few things that do them permanent damage, but fire and sunlight are serious and universal banes and you can get put right into the vampire equivalent of a persistent vegetative state with a shotgun blast or two. Furthermore, the WoD is full-- full-- of stuff that can write your character a one-way ticket to that great coffin in the sky (heh) in a matter of seconds, starting with another vampire (and you can be damned sure that other vampires know exactly how to make sure you won't be getting up again).

And they only get one body.

Working around all that is going to require 1. the most ruthless character-death system to exist in an MMO, 2. some credulity-stretching narrative license, or 3. a serious rewrite of how vampires get offed.

A partial solution might be to allow people to keep their "experience," or whatever, from character to character, allowing the creation of a new, equally experienced character each time the last one permanently snuffs it. But that's still going to result in tears, petitions, and canceled subscriptions.

As much as CCP wants this to focus on politics and social interaction (as it should), combat is going to come into this somewhere. Exactly how they approach that is going to be incredibly important to how this game comes together.

If they do a good job, I may have some hard decisions to make: I love Eve, but VtM is the first game I ever got into that wasn't sword and sorcery (like many, I started with D&D). If they include the Followers of Set, that decision's going to get even harder; it'll be damned difficult to resist the temptation to dust off that conniving old serpent Moebius and see whether I can talk my way onto the city Primogen all over again.

[Ghost Hunter]

They might employ a system similar to City of Heroes, where a mcguffin device teleports/shifts the near death player (technically 0 or 1 health) to a medical facility, where they recuperate.

In City of Heroes, this was how Villain/Hero players never experienced permadeath, even though it was quite frequent among the NPCs. Players were the minority that worked correctly, everyone else wasn't.

[Senn Typhos]

You know, after reading Aria's comment, I thought about it for a while and realized its really hard to write a player out of death without hilariously elaborate means. >>

I'm not terribly familiar with the WoD universe, so I don't know if their technology is all super-advanced and whatnot. But in most MMOs its either technology or magic that keeps you alive. Not sure which would be more appropriate here.

Unless they go with an EQ-esque "body drag" system, which I was never a fan of.

[Ghost Hunter]

Well assuming there is an appropriate scale of you are small fish - you are big fish, it could be varied.

Small fish for instance could be whisked away at the nearest moment of death by any Dark Gods (don't know if WoD has any) for whatever nefarious reason. As you rank up in power, eventually you can whisk yourself away to fight another day.

I'm not one to talk I don't even know anything beyond what WoD means ;P

[Vincent Pryce]

WoD is technologically on par with us - Depending if you do or do not include Mage the Ascension and Technocracy - I have a feeling this will thoroughly Vampire centric. Since oWoD mages rivaled the level of  Gods when they advanced with experience, lets leave the mages out for now and assume that we're going with what we have now.

So no teleporting probably.

Which brings us to Magic, that's a plenty in the WoD, old and new. In VtM, it was pretty damn potent force to dick around with as well. WoD is not sci-fi setting, it's supernatural, dark modern fantasy (minus the pointy eared elves, WoD have fairies but not as one would think) if you will. So that could be used to do something but, WTB Final Death personally to this game. Yes it will be a flow of tears and yes griefers will abuse it but makes things interesting don't it.

PS. I will be thoroughly disappointed if I can't play a Tzimisce and it's just a Camarilla circle jerk. I'll still probably play it though. There's always Malkavians.

[Senn Typhos]

I guess if nothing else, there's always the classic of dissipating into mist or something prior to death, and reviving elsewhere in a weakened state, or some such thing. Cliche, but at least it'd get the job done.

I've always had mixed feelings on permadeath. Let alone how humiliating a death can be in PvP, now I lost my character and I have to start back as square one? Definitely not an appealing idea.

On the other hand, I've had plenty of experiences, IC and OOC, where wiping someone off the face of existence would be a satisfying end to the altercation. It'd certainly make people think twice before starting a fight.

But, solely to keep a player base of any size, I think they'll have to include a way to revive yourself.

[Vieve]

I'll probably take a peek at this to see what's going on, though I doubt there's going to be the ability to play an unenlightened mortal a la some of the old WoD MUSHes.

[Saede Riordan]

random thought on deaths, and this is just me throwing ideas out there since I have no idea. But when you're killed, you turn into some sort of mist, which then goes, finds a random person, latches on and you take them over and they slowly turn into you. Not really accurate to the vampire lore or game lore, but CCP wouldn't just handwave it. No way.

[Aria Jenneth]

Yeah, WoD is modern horror. And vampires are not the nastiest things in it (at least physically) by a long, long way. Vampires die. They die from getting staked and beheaded by vampire hunters; they die from getting arrested and stuck in a nice, sunny prison cell; they die from getting shredded by werewolf claws (for which reason, I will facepalm if there is a "wipe out the pack of werewolves" quest that is anything less than the equivalent of a DED 10/10 plex. Werewolves are THE physical badasses of the WoD, and they rarely appear alone).

But mostly, they die by getting offed by their own kind. Vampire "justice" is brutal and unforgiving, and many vampire power games circle around manipulating a foe or rival (or said foe or rival's allies and minions) into violating the Traditions. Furthermore, a vampire can gain considerable power by draining the blood (and soul) of a more powerful vampire. That's a favorite pastime of the Sabbat (vampire bad guys-- er, worse guys?). The Camarilla (vampire slightly-better-guys), of course, bans it.

Politics in Vampire: the Masquerade is a matter of life and death. If this game doesn't have a PC body count, it will lose much of its sense of paranoid terror.

[Niki Bot]

Crazy Malkavian Voice:

"I asked them why the COLORS were ****ing SPINNING and all they said was 'Oh, the colors aren't spinning' and then the red was flying through the AIR AND THEY WON'T listen to the listening voices of the colored drapes that just WON'T SHUDDUP for five minutes because the wailing and the screaming and the OH GOD why are they not shutting up?  They listened and they talked and now they just WON'T STOP..."

Translation:

Sweeeeeeet...

[IzzyChan]

Here's some notes from an interview panel thingy of people telling the devs what they wanted to see.  A CCP dev wrote the list up and put it on his blog.  http://jachilli.squarespace.com/journal/2010/9/27/after-the-grand-masquerade.html

So, with the Grand Masquerade at its conclusion and the debut of some news and an art-driven animatic, word is now out that the WoD MMO is going to be based on the Masquerade, built on three spheres of playstyle (cofeeshop, sandbox, and themepark), and highlight the ideals of Danger, Power, Romance, and Mystery. One of the panels at the Grand Masquerade offered players a chance to tell the devs what they wanted to see. I took notes like a diligent designer should, and here's the summary:

 

    * Not a lot of quests. Org versus org. Player-driven faction content and conflict.
    * Not a WOW clone. Repetitive quests are boring and unfulfilling.
    * Concerns over how mental or social influence powers are handled. How to do this well and meaningfully? Players uncomfortable with a loss of control over avatar.
    * Players want to control other characters, however.
    * Territory control. An adult-only play space. Roleplayers want a space where the integrity of the setting colors the conversation. Don't want to suffer through Chuck Norris jokes and other immersion-breaking chatter.
    * Content that reinforces themes that are the cornerstones of the WoD. "Shivers up the spine."
    * An exploration of who a new character is, so that he's not just dropped tabula rasa into the world. Random backgrounds, connections to the world, hooks into world participation.
    * Powers that cleave closely to the powers that exist in the game, but also expand into new directions for appropriate Disciplines. Making them work in tandem with the system, so that they make sense in the world.
    * Finite numbers of the supernatural critter types.
    * Permadeath. Server type preference?
    * Allow social powers to be socially versatile. A character can be successful socially; not all advancement is tied to combat or traditional "leveling."
    * Factional control of regions or assets. Benefits to controlling key areas or establishments.
    * Live team events built upon a foundation of existing world lore. Real-time events, historical Masquerade characters, GM NPCs who can be interacted with or pull players into stories.
    * Influences, boons,  hallmarks of the social origins of vampires.
    * Accessible to casual players. Low-intensity tasks to just pick up and do so players don't have to sit there idly.
    * Playable Sabbat.
    * Creation, building visible things that can be added to game. Ex. Toreador art, Nosferatu caverns. Some kind of crafting system.
    * One big world with a dynamic power system that allows different factions to thrive.
    * Stay true to the adult content. Blood, gore, darkness, tits.
    * Present the themes of the World of Darkness as playable elements. Let the players participate in the things that make Vampire what it is.
    * Allow players to participate meaningfully as casual and part-time players.
    * Image and customization consultation -- players helping other players create their looks.
    * Playable neonate-ancilla-elder model with meaningful play, all with impact on the in-world vitae economy.
    * Status system -- how to represent and elder concept. Players that can participate as setting, a piece of the environment.
    * Unique and empowering via rarity.
    * Rarity of combat unless it's a character's focus.
    * Severity and fearsomeness of combat.
    * World that responds to the actions of the characters. Dynamic, changing, adapting to how players use the world.
    * A system to allow players to form groups of their own design as opposed to just sharing commonalities like clan and Disciplines.
    * GLBT friendly content.
    * Rewards for advancement tied to tiered mastery of ability or chance rolls.
    * Final Death.
    * Bloodline characters. Seeing the effects of actions the players have taken in character selection.
    * Use relationships with fan organizations to allow players to play their LARP characters and vice versa.
    * Crafting +1 but not materials farming.
    * Immersion as a priority. Reward the long-time player who's been into Vampire as opposed to the sillier players who are aggravating elements in other MMOs. Jumping goofball players break the mood.
    * Non-unique names as a matter of character identity.
    * Other WoD critters. The whole panoply of supernatural creature types.
    * Cherry pick the strong parts of Requiem.
    * Mortals, participate in the Embrace, etc. X2 X3
    * Embrace. X2
    * Diablerie.
    * Ability to flag self for PvP allowability.
    * Communication needs. Make communication happen in a way that's not as as intrusive as "global chat UI".
    * Politics outside clan and sect. City politics, for example. Domains and territories?
    * A sense of history imparted to elder characters. Flashback sequences, historical instances, etc.
    * Narrative that's not wholly reliant on players to facilitate the content.
    * Control the rate of character progression and provide content so that casual and time-constrained players can still participate meaningfully.
    * Personal spaces like havens. Ability to damage or conspire against havens. Or help cultivate them.
    * Torpor as a clone-type mechanic as a backup.
    * Casual player rewards and impetus.

 

It was a pretty exciting panel to be on, especially given that the goals of the players represented here are very much in accordance with the things we've been designing and iterating. But what about you? What do you think?

[Casiella]

Final Death? Is that... a permadeath reference?

[Saede Riordan]

I dunno, I find something interesting. You can clearly see three camps of people in that list:
1. Original OWoD players
2. WoW Players
3. Eve Players