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[Esna Pitoojee]

Indeed.

Embracing PvE as an RPable dynamic is, in my opinion, more about stripping any PvE encounter down to its most basic fundamentals ("I engaged a pirate officer" or "I assaulted a pirate base") and then re-build it up from there than the kill counts.

[BloodBird]

Another one of these? I mean not to bitch, but have we not gone over this topic in great detail before, several times?

*EDIT* Basically, how is this round of the topic different?

[orange]

"So you've killed the orc chief called Homunculus in that orc camp on the other side of the river? And all the orcs in it? Strange, because I was there yesterday and did exactly the same."

That is one fast growing fungus!

[Pieter Tuulinen]

I thought Seri was speaking primarily to highsec War Decs and their effects on PvE resource gathering.

If your Corp does a lot of highsec missioning then I would generally refer to it as anti-piracy and internal security patrolling. And not talk about slaughtering a million Guri's - if you want to be taken seriously, at least.

[Merdaneth]

All IC sources from the NPC world seem to indicate that PvE is more important than PvP. Factions/Concord will offer you billions to go on all kind of missions, and shower you in loyalty rewards and standings. No amount of PvP (except for a bit of FW PvP since recent times) motivates the NPCs to ever show you any reward. In fact, a lot of  PvP (sec status loss) actually shows the NPCs don't want you fighting other capsuleers.

All OOC sources  from the player world indicate that PvP is more important than PvE. Characters may get isk, but no amount of PvE changes the game world. Kill thousands of Sansha's in a system, or none over a period of weeks, there will be no observable difference in the universe. On the other hand, PvP does have a clearly observable effect on other capsuleers.

Thus we are left with NPCs that motivate us to do things that seem to have no effect (PvE), and we receive no motivations for things that we see have an effect (PvP) .

EVE is a pretty upside down world, RP-wise.

[Aria Jenneth]

The way I look on it is that PvE bears on capsuleers' place in the rest of New Eden. Capsuleers may war amongst themselves, but PvE (at least as long as "baseliner" vessels are the rule, not the exception) is what capsuleers are "for," at least if you ask faction agents (and probably the people at the various training organizations who help make more capsuleers).

From this angle, the nullsec alliances (strongly PvP organizations) are fringe entities exploiting loopholes in the system to set themselves up as frontier despots, etc.. The "core" of capsuleerdom is ... exactly where the population is: hangin' out in hisec, doing the empires' dirty work.

Does that mean that PvE is more RP meaningful? Sure, in the sense that it's what is most visible to outsiders.

In the sense of what grants status among capsuleers, however, PvP has the clear edge. Players spend most of their RP time dealing with their fellows, not outside forces.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

In the sense of what grants status among capsuleers, however, PvP has the clear edge. Players spend most of their RP time dealing with their fellows, not outside forces.

Doesn't mean that status is by necessity awarded by pvp-abilities. I value someone who's willing to help in PvE more than some lone-wolf pvp-crack. That's true in character as well, even to a greater degree. Nico certainly doesn't measure people by their pvp-achievements alone. In fact, some pvp-achievements negatively in that regard.

[Silas Vitalia]

Status is never awarded to those who probably actually deserve it.

Look at our society and how much attention, fawning, fame, and money we heap upon people for no other reason than being pretty, or being able to carry a ball across a painted line faster than most other people.

The people doing 'real good work' among the masses are never lauded or respected to the same level of someone flashy and popular.


Capsuleers are no different.

You might have saved a few thousand baseliners from that Gurista's internment camp, but you'll never get the respect and fame of a celebrity capsuleer doing celebrity things.

[Nicoletta Mithra]

That's all a question of status with whom awarded by whom. Anyway, it doesn't undermine my point, but rather underscores it: Some people get status with a decent chunk of the EVE player base by trolling away, others by being great PvPers, others by speaking up for the interest of the PvEer. Most by being good at representing themselves. PvP isn't the celebrity thing, neither in EVE in general, nor in the RP community or ICly. There are people doing 'real good pvp work' and no one ever takes notice.

[Techie Kanenald]

I'm not sure if this fits (after all, asteroids are such fierce foes) but I can put in my two cents on mining.

I've found again and again, with very rare exceptions (though they are getting more common), the view that miners, industrialists, and traders are the "low end" of the capsuleer crop.  It used to bug me greatly that "if you can't shoot, you don't matter" seemed to come up about every day.

Silas' post however, got me thinking.  Do we really thank the grocery store for stocking our food?  Ever thanked a farmer for growing a crop?  Minerals and what derives from them are the "food" of New Eden.  We'll gladly complain when there's a shortage of tomatoes, but do we really think about the people who helped bring those tomatoes to that Wendy's?

It's an interesting social issue, I'll admit.  As for is PVP greater than PVE RP-wise?  Depends on your character's motivations.

[Makkal]

In regards to RP, everything is an important as your PC says it is, provided you can get other PCs to take you at your word.

I ran a complex, got blown up, reshipped, and then went back to finish my (less than 30 second) timer. Makkal says that she journeyed deep within enemy territory to do battle with enemies of the Caldari state in order to liberate the area.

Whether another PC accepts that she's gallantly struggling in a brutal, ongoing war, or whelping about low-sec playing a meaningless game the empires came up with to keep capsuleers busy is up to them.

Alternatively, when I was POS tending and making moon goo, Makkal just told people she was farming. Several PCs reacted with derision and disdain. My PvE battles in null were never more than 'routine sector sweep' or 'clearing the system of belligerents.' 

I could have easily had her claim to be an industrialist in charge of an operation that employed tens of thousands, or said my PvEing was "Project Orpheus," a long-term campaign to bring stability and prosperity to the area.

The truth of any of these statements is simply a shared fiction players engage in.

It might be frustrating that there's no objective measurement of your PCs impact on the world, especially if your chosen activity is not appreciated by other PCs. (Or players.) But RP is all about the tenuous bubble where cooperative and competitive meets.