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[Seriphyn]

I am very much not a fan of talking about my character in any avenue outside of private chats, mostly because I am self-conscious and quite shy when talking about my artistic creations. To me, I feel like talking about my character is self-indulgent, -aggrandizing and...words like that. I also don't really like to talk about RP out-of-character at all (bar exceptions), preferring to let things take their course and what have you. I remember one player a while ago who was OOC insistent that Seriphyn and their character were not compatible, with me just saying "Ah, just let the RP take its course". Ended up with some mild compatibility in the end. Talking about RP out-of-character makes me feel like the chance of non-organic developments increase. Part of the game of any engagement is not letting the other side know your true intention; this holds true even if the 'engagement' is friendly.

However, as my primary RP partner (you all know who that is) has decreased activity, I'm sort of not really doing anything in RP anymore. This could be an RP outreach thing but...at the same time, my sort of RP is focused on very intense human relationships (themes of human condition etc.), and that leaves out all but the most time-devoted RPers. Even then, the 'intense' nature of the RP I go for sort of pushes it into the realm of relationships, and since Seri's already spoken for...on top of that, the intensity pushes the RP more into the male-female paradigm, leaving me more interested in engaging with female characters, even if platonically.

Anyway, if some of you are interested in Seriphyn, and feel there's more to his antagonistic exterior, here's a little outline of his character according to the definitions of Byronic Hero by both TVTropes and Wikipedia. I think the Hero dimension has left me a little lost in being able to RP with other male characters, beyond comrades who look up to him (back during FDU time). The Romantic (capital r) nature of the RP is perhaps why it is so heteronormative in terms of the bias towards engaging with female characters. Maybe.

TVTropes

Are usually male and considered very attractive physically, possessing a great deal of charisma, sophistication, and intelligence, as well as emotional sensitivity, which may translate into moodiness.

How to talk about this without coming across as a complete full-of-oneself knob...OK, well, at least two characters played by female players have considered Seriphyn to be the above (sigh, what a first point to answer). Obviously these characters didn't meet Seriphyn in the Summit. Quickly moving on, Seriphyn is extremely moody, being challenged by big questions about the human condition, particularly true as a capsuleer.

Is intensely introspective and may be described as dark and brooding. He dwells on the pains or perceived injustices of his life, often to the point of over-indulgence. May muse philosophically on the circumstances that brought him to this point, including personal failings.

This only came about as a result of the CCP Vevelonel event. Over-indulgence is the big one, especially the 'musing philosophically on the circumstances'. Even OOC, lol. Call me a method RPer, but lavishing in the dark depths of human emotion (emotion, not action pls. don't want to be associated with the implications of hte latter) is something I enjoy. Maybe I watch too much anime.

Is cynical and jaded, often due to a mysterious Dark and Troubled Past, which, if uncovered, will reveal a significant loss, or a crime or mistake committed which still haunts him.

Lyn Farel has pointed out that they have observed Seriphyn to be the only character that is outwardly sarcastic about their own faction while remaining nominally loyal to it. I think they also noted Seriphyn's outward displays of passionate idealism versus scatching cynicism re: the Federation. But this is not a result of Seri's Dark and Troubled Past (which I mostly pin about Vevelonel, since it's CCP canon and not stuff I made up to attention seek <_<), but more the 'jaded but loyal soldier' trope. I shouldn't have kicked Seri out of FedNav/FDU, because I equally enjoyed playing that role, too. Ah well.

He is extremely passionate, with strong personal beliefs which are usually in conflict with the values of the status quo. He sees his own values and passions as above or better than those of others, manifesting as arrogance or a martyr-like attitude.

This is a big one (and builds on Lyn's mentioning some time ago about Seri going between passion and cynicism). Seriphyn does genuinely believes his ideals and principles to be better than everyone and everything else, because if everyone followed it, the cluster could get along. In public venues, it is indeed manifested as arrogance. Ironically, and OOC, I think everyone would approve of Seriphyn's ideals in some form or another. He's against dividing people by race, against militarism, against jingoism, against unquestioning compliance; basically, all of his ideas are derived from the classical liberalism of the Enlightenment.

A key element I play is tabula rasa which I think some of you must have seen; Seriphyn has said "If an ethnic Minmatar was born and nobody told them they were Minmatar (let alone cut off from all other Minmatar), are they still Minmatar?" and "If all space technology ceased operation, would we still be Caldari and Gallente?". He challenges the big four identities as a product of 'interstellar imperialism' which does not accurately reflect humans at the planetary society level.

Of course, Seriphyn doesn't care about tact, because you shouldn't need to convince people of your superior ideals with diplomacy, since your ideals are still superior without it!

The 'status quo' bit is interesting, if one would consider the 'status quo' in light of the Summit's attitudes. Majority of the time, Seriphyn's ideals are in direct conflict with those of the Summit (even if his ideals are an extension of the general principles we hold in the OOC Internet). Finally, the 'martyr-like' bit manifests itself mostly in any RP relating to physical confrontation, like playing space marine.

His intense drive and determination to live out his philosophy without regard to others' philosophies produces conflict, and may result in a tragic end, should he fail, or revolution, should he succeed. This rebellion against the rules or values of the society he finds himself in, as well as a disrespect for rank/privilege *, often leads to social isolation, rejection, or exile.

If shouting at each other in the Summit is conflict, there we go (although Seri never actually get angry in the Summit; at least, I never have him outright sling folk with vicious insults as I've seen other characters do to Seri)

Wikipedia

Arrogant

Yes. Which is interesting, since other Arrogant characters I've met tend to lean more to the Villain side of things (Angel Cartel, Sani Sabik). Seri is, at the end of it, a Hero character. Compassion, charity, kindness. He's actually quite nice face-to-face since he is averse to talking politics 'in real life' (in person), and generally sees it as counterproductive to treat someone poorly in the flesh. Over the Summit, he sees it as just FTL banter.

Cunning and able to adapt

This, I don't know. If I was still in FW, the 'cunning' thing could play into any FW-related RP. Adapting to specific social or cultural situations, sure. For example, Seri rails against the Caldari State, but when he's there, it's 'do as the Romans do'

Cynical

You don't spend ten years bleeding your guts out for politicians, and then the guts of the men/women under you, and not get a little cynical. In FW, I played to the 'shared consciousness' of soldiers regardless of faction, for a while. Ultimately, however, I didn't encounter any other 'cynical but loyal' soldier-type character, so nothing came of it.

Disrespectful of rank and privilege

Tied to his rebellious nature, Seriphyn does not like authority since he had a problematic upbringing with mostly absent parents. It may just boil down to envy, resentment, bitterness, and the need to 'prove oneself' or 'make a point' by shoving it at those in power (who he's making the point to, nobody knows).

A recent example of this trait was Seriphyn's attitudes to the Ray of Matar, ironically captured in CCP's news item stating how a Gallente said "It's only one lady you'll never meet and she's just some politician anyway". It's not just baseless rebellion for its own sake. Seriphyn believes everyone to be equal. Anyone in authority have more power than everyone else, thus they are not equal to the common man. This is amplified by the fact that the Voluval seems arbitrary. When you're all about rule of law and justice, special markings based on tradition (ie. we've always done it, it must be true) is in complete opposition to classical liberalist theory.

At the same time, Seriphyn's gregarious and adaptable nature means he will respect the Ray of Matar as per any esteemed individual of New Eden. Again, part of the game is not giving away your true thoughts and intentions.

Emotionally conflicted, bipolar, or moody

Already touched on this. Seriphyn smiles a lot (I notice he smiles moreso than I've seen other male character smiles...guess smiling isn't generally manly and dark and brooding etc.) He's also very friendly in person (believe it). But then he gets depressed and goes into all sorts of melancholy.

Having a distaste for social institutions and norms

Again tied to Seriphyn's classical liberalism. Tradition is "dead people's baggage" and is no excuse in the place of reason, rationality, and modernity.

Having a troubled past or suffering from an unnamed crime

Parents didn't get murdered by pirates, incidentally.

Intelligent and perceptive

Yes, but I'd need an advocate on that one to 'prove it'.

Jaded, world-weary

Same answer as cynical, really.

Mysterious, magnetic and charismatic

YMMV on this one. This is really subjective and depends on how you the player-character interprets Seriphyn when interacting with him one-on-one (ie. not in the Summit, but 'in real life' as Seri calls it).

Rebellious

I believe Matariki Rain stated Seriphyn had a sort of 'roguish appeal', again tied to his rebellious nature already outlined above. Seriphyn is loyal to the Federation (or was), but will overthrow it if it no longer reflects the people it stands for. People organize governments, not governments organize people, etc.

Seductive and sexually attractive

Ha...will have to defer judgement to female players I've RPed with on that one (and only then, in-depth). I don't think a straight male player could appreciate the attractiveness of a male character the same way a straight member of the opposing gender can. Ho boy, does that sound self-aggrandizing...

Self-critical and introspective

Very much. Seriphyn believes he can only redeem himself by enslaving himself to justice. Not that he knows what he is redeeming himself from.

Socially and sexually dominant

Ignoring the sexual bit, I've always played Seriphyn as a bit of an 'alpha male' in person, especially bar channels. It's not so much about being all 'hurr durr manly muscles hnghh' but more in gregarity. Encouraging conversation, being animated, and so on.

...this is often the case when you encounter player-characters of a lower...artistic commitment...than yourselves. Of course it's easier to come across as socially dominant in RP if you're the one stimulating the RP...

Sophisticated and educated

This is funny because I am university-educated IRL and Seriphyn is not in EVE. Nonetheless, he's sort of played as educated and sophisticated (perhaps 'educated from experience). This comes despite his accent. He's not as sophisticated as some characters out there, ie. super posh and fancy and all, but I still think he uses appropiate vocab.

Struggling with integrity

Sort of tied to the self-critical, struggling with life, period, idea. A few days ago, one of Seriphyn's clashes in the Summit (over the Ray of Matar) caused him in another VR channel to mull over whether or not he was right in his confrontational behaviour. He introspected in the company of a couple other characters over these ideas, on whether or not he should be diplomatic.

Treated as an exile, outcast, or outlaw

Hmm. Maybe socially. And even then, only amongst the 'Summit circle'.

Anyway, that's it. Maybe this is some sort of self-justification or -assurance, but I thought like sharing some aspects of my character, because I was conscious he was becoming viewed as a unilateral dick (not that I had any direct or indirect OOC hints from people about that). I know it's my responsibility, in terms of "If you play your character this way, you can't expect your character to not be viewed that way, period". But that notion doesn't make the distinction between genuinenly one-dimensional dickish characters, and dickish characters that have depth behind them. Naturally, I feel Seriphyn is in the latter group.

But yeah, if you're into that sort of thing above, let me know and whatnot.

[Seriphyn]

Just realized I posted this while exceptionally hungry, leaving some points half-arsed, and others not sufficiently pre/suffixed with ego-minimizing remarks. Ah well.

[Havohej]

That's some good poast.  I'd like to comment on 'perceived IC dickishness':

Havo is horrible and hated and this is 'working as intended', but his actual associates got 'the rest' of him i.e. the 'good-ish' or deeper side of the madman.  To be continued...

[Havohej]

Shitphone

If you never meant for Seri to be seen that way, cool, but have you considered embracing it?  I've found it can make for tasty and tasteful IC tension (Havo vs. -EM- for example when that IC dispute over methods was going on)

[Lyn Farel]

I am very much not a fan of talking about my character in any avenue outside of private chats, mostly because I am self-conscious and quite shy when talking about my artistic creations. To me, I feel like talking about my character is self-indulgent, -aggrandizing and...words like that. I also don't really like to talk about RP out-of-character at all (bar exceptions), preferring to let things take their course and what have you. I remember one player a while ago who was OOC insistent that Seriphyn and their character were not compatible, with me just saying "Ah, just let the RP take its course". Ended up with some mild compatibility in the end. Talking about RP out-of-character makes me feel like the chance of non-organic developments increase. Part of the game of any engagement is not letting the other side know your true intention; this holds true even if the 'engagement' is friendly.

I quite strongly feel the same usually, but it still leaded me recently to break the rule for once. Sometimes hiding too much just means that most of it gets lost in the mist and speaking about it OOCly actually creates RP hooks for people to grab if they feel the need to. Not that it made me change my mind, of course, I still strongly feel the same. I am not especially shy about my creations since I have had to learn not to be in my job, but I can't help but feel extremely self agrandizing and most of all self centric when doing so, especially on public channels.

But being too opaque actually means that your character becomes a total enigma for a lot of people. It can be good but not always. It's good ICly when you play a cryptic, introverted character. But in most cases it can start to be unhealthy OOCly. When people OOCly are not able to discern (note that I use discern, not outright see everything) what your character really is about, it tends to lead to several cases that have always been invariably the same since I started playing :

• They can eventually more or less ignore your character, or just avoid him/her. They tend to do so because they have no clear idea what the character is about or just because they are cautious. They can also tend to do it because a lot of people just need black and white, obvious things, even if unconsciously.
• They can also start to associate it to your own OOC self they know better (or the opposite) to fill the gap they can't really read, or just to combine both to make them more complete/real in their mind. It's especially annoying when you play a character full of flaws and/or mental issues.
• Not seeing what the character is about can frustrate people and make them naturally more inclined towards ostracism since all the "weird stuff" (which they do not see so weird once explained a little) tends to be.

Intelligent and perceptive

Yes, but I'd need an advocate on that one to 'prove it'.

I have had several characters often telling Lyn she was that, ICly. The term coming the most was reasonable, countless times.

I think that if you still need an advocate for this, then maybe you do not play that card ICly enough, but that can also be something else. People Male players are less inclined to compliment males than females, usually, for that they often lack the endearing side. However, when it happens (and it happens), the more genuine it is.

Socially and sexually dominant

Ignoring the sexual bit, I've always played Seriphyn as a bit of an 'alpha male' in person, especially bar channels. It's not so much about being all 'hurr durr manly muscles hnghh' but more in gregarity. Encouraging conversation, being animated, and so on.

...this is often the case when you encounter player-characters of a lower...artistic commitment...than yourselves. Of course it's easier to come across as socially dominant in RP if you're the one stimulating the RP...

Sophisticated and educated

This is funny because I am university-educated IRL and Seriphyn is not in EVE. Nonetheless, he's sort of played as educated and sophisticated (perhaps 'educated from experience). This comes despite his accent. He's not as sophisticated as some characters out there, ie. super posh and fancy and all, but I still think he uses appropiate vocab.

Struggling with integrity

Sort of tied to the self-critical, struggling with life, period, idea. A few days ago, one of Seriphyn's clashes in the Summit (over the Ray of Matar) caused him in another VR channel to mull over whether or not he was right in his confrontational behaviour. He introspected in the company of a couple other characters over these ideas, on whether or not he should be diplomatic.

These are the key parts that make the character good, if I may offer some feedback. It's the important trinity for him when it comes to social interaction.

Socially dominant through an apparently educated look. Socially dominant like a self made man would tend to behave. Like as you say, uneducated in his personnal history, and yet having reached a social elite position and being aware that he has to fit to the standards... Often, overdoing it and trying too hard, due to his lack of education in the first place.

Also, the struggling with integrity part is important for other purposes, which is to soften a little the character and to break the fact that he could otherwise be seen as universally arrogant all around, without any concession. It explains a little more why he actually is at times and adds depth.

Treated as an exile, outcast, or outlaw

Hmm. Maybe socially. And even then, only amongst the 'Summit circle'.

Anyway, that's it. Maybe this is some sort of self-justification or -assurance, but I thought like sharing some aspects of my character, because I was conscious he was becoming viewed as a unilateral dick (not that I had any direct or indirect OOC hints from people about that). I know it's my responsibility, in terms of "If you play your character this way, you can't expect your character to not be viewed that way, period". But that notion doesn't make the distinction between genuinenly one-dimensional dickish characters, and dickish characters that have depth behind them. Naturally, I feel Seriphyn is in the latter group.

But yeah, if you're into that sort of thing above, let me know and whatnot.

Heh, welcome in the asocial characters club.

[Lyn Farel]

[Redacted, actually sent via PM]

[Seriphyn]

If you never meant for Seri to be seen that way, cool, but have you considered embracing it?

What I find fascinating is how Seri has ended up as the character type described above. Towards the backend of last year, I read the two articles and was like "Wait, this is Seriphyn". I have not so much embraced it insofar that I don't necessarily need to embrace it as that's just how the character is. At the same time, it likely has had a subconscious effect where I play Seriphyn to the above traits because of my bias towards it.

I am very much not a fan of talking about my character in any avenue outside of private chats, mostly because I am self-conscious and quite shy when talking about my artistic creations. To me, I feel like talking about my character is self-indulgent, -aggrandizing and...words like that. I also don't really like to talk about RP out-of-character at all (bar exceptions), preferring to let things take their course and what have you. I remember one player a while ago who was OOC insistent that Seriphyn and their character were not compatible, with me just saying "Ah, just let the RP take its course". Ended up with some mild compatibility in the end. Talking about RP out-of-character makes me feel like the chance of non-organic developments increase. Part of the game of any engagement is not letting the other side know your true intention; this holds true even if the 'engagement' is friendly.

I quite strongly feel the same usually, but it still leaded me recently to break the rule for once. Sometimes hiding too much just means that most of it gets lost in the mist and speaking about it OOCly actually creates RP hooks for people to grab if they feel the need to. Not that it made me change my mind, of course, I still strongly feel the same. I am not especially shy about my creations since I have had to learn not to be in my job, but I can't help but feel extremely self agrandizing and most of all self centric when doing so, especially on public channels.

But being too opaque actually means that your character becomes a total enigma for a lot of people. It can be good but not always. It's good ICly when you play a cryptic, introverted character. But in most cases it can start to be unhealthy OOCly. When people OOCly are not able to discern (note that I use discern, not outright see everything) what your character really is about, it tends to lead to several cases that have always been invariably the same since I started playing :

• They can eventually more or less ignore your character, or just avoid him/her. They tend to do so because they have no clear idea what the character is about or just because they are cautious. They can also tend to do it because a lot of people just need black and white, obvious things, even if unconsciously.
• They can also start to associate it to your own OOC self they know better (or the opposite) to fill the gap they can't really read, or just to combine both to make them more complete/real in their mind. It's especially annoying when you play a character full of flaws and/or mental issues.
• Not seeing what the character is about can frustrate people and make them naturally more inclined towards ostracism since all the "weird stuff" (which they do not see so weird once explained a little) tends to be.

Very good points, I like these. I'll be sure to re-read and re-re-read them to take to heart.

These are the key parts that make the character good, if I may offer some feedback. It's the important trinity for him when it comes to social interaction.

Socially dominant through an apparently educated look. Socially dominant like a self made man would tend to behave. Like as you say, uneducated in his personnal history, and yet having reached a social elite position and being aware that he has to fit to the standards... Often, overdoing it and trying too hard, due to his lack of education in the first place.

Hehe, thanks. That's spot on with the "elevation" thing.

Also, the struggling with integrity part is important for other purposes, which is to soften a little the character and to break the fact that he could otherwise be seen as universally arrogant all around, without any concession. It explains a little more why he actually is at times and adds depth.

I aim for maximum realism and authenticity. People who behave a certain way IRL behave so for a reason.

[Arnulf Ogunkoya]

I'm re-reading some Jerry Pornelle at the moment. I saw this and though of Seriphyn.

We've left blood in the dirt of twenty-five worlds,
We've built roads on a dozen more,
And all that we have at the end of our hitch Buys a night with a second-class whore.

The Senate decrees, the Grand Admiral calls,
The orders come down from on high.
It's 'On Full Kits' and 'Sound Board Ships,'
We're sending you where you can die.

The lands that we take, the Senate gives back,
Rather more often than not,
But the more that are killed, the less share the loot,
And we won't be back to this spot.

We'll break the hearts of your women and girls,
We may break your arse, as well,
Then the Line Marines with their banners unfurled
Will follow those banners to hell.

We know the devil, his pomps, and his works,
Ah, yes! We know them well!
When you've served out your hitch in the Line Marines,
You can bugger the Senate of Hell!

Then we'll drink with our comrades and throw down our packs,
We'll rest ten years on the flat of our backs,
Then it's 'On Full Kits' and out of your racks,
You must build a new road through Hell!

The Fleet is our country, we sleep with a rifle,
No man ever begot a son on his rifle,
They pay us in gin and curse when we sin,
There's not one that can stand us unless we're downwind,
We're shot when we lose and turned out when we win,
But we bury our comrades wherever they fall,
And there's none that can face us, though we've nothing at all.

Pournelle is a terrible old reactionary in some ways. But I do find this song interesting, and it seems fitting for what you have described of your character. The Scansion looks a bit suspect though and I have no idea what the tune might be like.

[Laria Raven]

A flowery ruff, beneath your brocade
Some poetry, about how beauty fades
Mad and bad, and dangerous to know
A hundred woman, who want you as their beau
And isn't it Byronic, don't you think?

[Shintoko Akahoshi]

I liked reading all of that, Seri. I have to admit, a lot of it surprised me (though I can see those aspects of your character as you talk about them), because they're never things that really came out in any of the (relatively limited) RP that Seri and Shin have shared. I suspect that you play Seri in such a way (and I certainly do this with Shin) that the important stuff almost never comes out. It's a tricky position to be in because, as you mention, it's all too easy for people to simply look at the surface character and think that's all there is to it. I know that ICly, Shin doesn't see anything beneath Seri's surface behavior.

Lyn Farel has pointed out that they have observed Seriphyn to be the only character that is outwardly sarcastic about their own faction while remaining nominally loyal to it. I think they also noted Seriphyn's outward displays of passionate idealism versus scatching cynicism re: the Federation. But this is not a result of Seri's Dark and Troubled Past (which I mostly pin about Vevelonel, since it's CCP canon and not stuff I made up to attention seek <_<), but more the 'jaded but loyal soldier' trope. I shouldn't have kicked Seri out of FedNav/FDU, because I equally enjoyed playing that role, too. Ah well.

This, particularly, interests me.

I think we should figure out some way to throw Shin and Seri together a little more, especially since Shin's come out of the closet as a Fed supporter.

[Steffanie Saissore]

The little I've had to interact with Seri as Steff, I find him quite interesting and look forward to learning more about him.

I also get how you feel about talking about the character OOC; I hate talking about myself cause it feels like attention-seeking at times and when it comes to artistic creations, I'm rather possessive about my creations and am hesitant to put them out to be scrutinized and criticized. However, Steff is one of the first characters I've had in a while where I want to get break that mold and just put it out there...I think in part because I don't 'know' enough about the universe, I kind of built a framework for the character and have been filling it with ideas/input I've gotten.  Still, I get that knot in the stomach sensation when I write something up and put it out for consumption.

[Seriphyn]

Should have read the latest replies before deciding to off him. Oh well.

[kalaratiri]

So..

He's dead, Jim?