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That the higher levels of space stations are restricted to the elite, with capsuleers occupying the very top decks? (The Burning life p. 73)

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Author Topic: Split from Caldari Reclaiming: Low Sec between Empires  (Read 3261 times)

orange

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Re: Split from Caldari Reclaiming: Low Sec between Empires
« Reply #15 on: 12 May 2013, 12:42 »


Jita-Amarr is 5.5 million the flat fee. (Calculator Link)

A battleship (or a Marauder) is only 50k m3 and then assume you add on all the other stuff in the package - call it 51k m3.  This does not seem unreasonable to assume for the average freight service user.*   This means that the 16-17 customers might be on a single trip, so even low-balling down to 10 customers you end up with 55 million.

I thought their stated reason for having a maximum escrow of 1 billion was that more than one billion in a freighter made it a suicide gank target, and that was bad for business. Putting 16-17 customers cargo in one load seems to be contra-indicated if that is the case.

There isn't a good way to tell what is in the containers unless I am very mistaken.  The courier contracts are a conatiner.
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Ghost Hunter

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Re: Split from Caldari Reclaiming: Low Sec between Empires
« Reply #16 on: 12 May 2013, 12:46 »

Yes. And that's high-sec. Much of the hauler ganking there happens for economic reasons that are balanced by ship loss.

In low-sec, if you can tank the gate guns, is there a reason not to attack every, single hauling ship you can?

Bad for business if you're marketing your area for industrial availability. PI haulers tend to be the big boomers in this area since there isn't any other reason for industry in lowsec atm.

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Silver Night

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Re: Split from Caldari Reclaiming: Low Sec between Empires
« Reply #17 on: 12 May 2013, 12:58 »


Jita-Amarr is 5.5 million the flat fee. (Calculator Link)

A battleship (or a Marauder) is only 50k m3 and then assume you add on all the other stuff in the package - call it 51k m3.  This does not seem unreasonable to assume for the average freight service user.*   This means that the 16-17 customers might be on a single trip, so even low-balling down to 10 customers you end up with 55 million.

I thought their stated reason for having a maximum escrow of 1 billion was that more than one billion in a freighter made it a suicide gank target, and that was bad for business. Putting 16-17 customers cargo in one load seems to be contra-indicated if that is the case.

There isn't a good way to tell what is in the containers unless I am very mistaken.  The courier contracts are a conatiner.

I thought scanners let you see inside containers now?

orange

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Re: Split from Caldari Reclaiming: Low Sec between Empires
« Reply #18 on: 12 May 2013, 13:01 »

Where is a resident high-sec ganker when you need one?
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Makkal

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Re: Split from Caldari Reclaiming: Low Sec between Empires
« Reply #19 on: 12 May 2013, 13:02 »

Scanners allow other people to see what's in a hauler's cargo.

There is a variant T2 hauler that can fit a cloak and can't be scanned.
« Last Edit: 12 May 2013, 13:04 by Makkal »
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Ulphus

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Re: Split from Caldari Reclaiming: Low Sec between Empires
« Reply #20 on: 12 May 2013, 13:34 »

Scanners allow other people to see what's in a hauler's cargo.

There is a variant T2 hauler that can fit a cloak and can't be scanned.

Yes, the blockade runner, which still can sometimes get caught around the gates/unlocks of jita, and some suicide bankers of my acquaintance will pop them if they can, in the hopes that they'll contain goodies, because they are usually very thin.
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orange

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Re: Split from Caldari Reclaiming: Low Sec between Empires
« Reply #21 on: 12 May 2013, 13:45 »

Scanners allow other people to see what's in a hauler's cargo.

Do they allow other people to see what is in a container in the hauler's cargo?  That is the question.

A courier contract is labeled with its destination, not its contents.
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Makkal

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Re: Split from Caldari Reclaiming: Low Sec between Empires
« Reply #22 on: 12 May 2013, 13:48 »

Painfully thin.  :|

Do they allow other people to see what is in a container in the hauler's cargo? 
Yes.

Quote
A courier contract is labeled with its destination, not its contents.
Yes.
« Last Edit: 12 May 2013, 13:50 by Makkal »
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Ulphus

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Re: Split from Caldari Reclaiming: Low Sec between Empires
« Reply #23 on: 12 May 2013, 14:00 »

Scanners allow other people to see what's in a hauler's cargo.

Do they allow other people to see what is in a container in the hauler's cargo?  That is the question.

A courier contract is labeled with its destination, not its contents.

Unless things have changed since I last played, once you accept a courier contract, you can see what it is you're transporting (by opening it as a container. It only counts as breaking the courier contract if you try to remove anything). You can also use a cargo scanner as well (though I think that's not 100% reliable)
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Esna Pitoojee

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Re: Split from Caldari Reclaiming: Low Sec between Empires
« Reply #24 on: 12 May 2013, 16:29 »

Some clarifications:

- The 4.5 million figure I quoted in my last post is from Push Industries, not Red Frog. Over long distances, Push tends to be cheaper - although I have heard they are sometimes (slightly) slower.
- On scanners: Blockade Runners are the only class of ship outright immune to cargo scanners (including those with corporate hangar arrays). To my knowledge, however, the "double plastic wrap" trick still works. This trick takes advantage of the fact that the cargo scanner only sees "one layer" deep into a cargohold, revealing everything in the cargohold and anything within containers in that cargohold. However, if the container happens to hold another container - impossible to do with normal cans, but quite possible with an alt and a bit of contract flipping - then the scanner will only see that 2nd cargo container.

A visualization:
(My cargo: [First plastic wrap container: Scanner sees up to here {Second plastic wrap layer: Put your goodies in here. } ] )

- At current most people don't bother with neutral freighters carrying double-plastic wrapped cargo because there's always the dumber guy who hasn't bothered to hide his shinies.
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Victoria Stecker

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Re: Split from Caldari Reclaiming: Low Sec between Empires
« Reply #25 on: 12 May 2013, 17:46 »

Higher prices will result, temporarily, because there will be more demand. But higher prices mean that selling basic manufacturing in Amarr becomes more profitable. Once people see that profit, they start filling the holes and prices stabilize and lower. I think the infrastructure is already pretty developed for this, to be honest, and so prices would probably drop fairly quickly in Amarr as soon as Jita became nonviable for Amarrian based manufacturing.

This is more what I was thinking. While it's certainly possible that the price difference between jita and amarr would become great enough do the sudden shift in demand, and that might make hauling goods lucrative enough for people to try it, I wouldn't expect it. But some of the production capacity will shift over to amarr to take advantage of suddenly greater profits. In the short run, those already set up to supply Amarr will make a mint.
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Desiderya

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Re: Split from Caldari Reclaiming: Low Sec between Empires
« Reply #26 on: 13 May 2013, 07:34 »

Although it could be argued that if you see double-wrap it is safe to assume that there's something good inside. Basically ganking BRs blindly is a higher risk than that.
And the nature of the business is that it's much more worthwhile to filter out the idiots that feel safe and load too much ISK, don't believe in tank or autopilot.
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