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Author Topic: Re: Rationale behind Minmatar-Caldari friendliness  (Read 1430 times)

Nicoletta Mithra

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Who says that the four nations of EVE need to be the arch-nemesis' of each other? If I had to pick an arch-nemesis for the Empire it'd be the Sani-Sabik cults, if it weren't for their lack of organization, or maybe better Sansha. After all is said and done, the four nations aren't that different, really, if you compare them with the factions that didn't sign the CONCORD charter.

I think it's one of the big ailments of the EVE community that they have to think, apparently, that within the four nations there must be the 'big struggle' and that this is oftentimes thought of as a struggle of 'good versus evil'. (And I think this perception is shaped by the players society: In my experience Americans tend to see these polar opposites as a necessity, while Europeans do less so: Maybe the European Union did deserve that noble prize after all, the post-war reconciliation of France and Germany seems to have achieved something.)

Nations don't need arch-rivals to whom they are opposed eternally and locked with into a struggle that is about all or nothing, save for their propaganda. That's why a senator will say such a thing. It's not because the Empire is really the Federations arch-nemesis: It's to keep his voters in line. Fear is a strong ally in the struggle to get re-elected.

So, as I said, the tendency to paint any two factions as polar opposites that by necessity need to exterminate another eventually is just oversimplification of the situation, imho. It's even more simplistic than the picture CCP is already painting.
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Gottii

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Re: Re: Rationale behind Minmatar-Caldari friendliness
« Reply #1 on: 28 Dec 2012, 02:10 »

Who says that the four nations of EVE need to be the arch-nemesis' of each other? If I had to pick an arch-nemesis for the Empire it'd be the Sani-Sabik cults, if it weren't for their lack of organization, or maybe better Sansha. After all is said and done, the four nations aren't that different, really, if you compare them with the factions that didn't sign the CONCORD charter.

I think it's one of the big ailments of the EVE community that they have to think, apparently, that within the four nations there must be the 'big struggle' and that this is oftentimes thought of as a struggle of 'good versus evil'. (And I think this perception is shaped by the players society: In my experience Americans tend to see these polar opposites as a necessity, while Europeans do less so: Maybe the European Union did deserve that noble prize after all, the post-war reconciliation of France and Germany seems to have achieved something.)

Nations don't need arch-rivals to whom they are opposed eternally and locked with into a struggle that is about all or nothing, save for their propaganda. That's why a senator will say such a thing. It's not because the Empire is really the Federations arch-nemesis: It's to keep his voters in line. Fear is a strong ally in the struggle to get re-elected.

So, as I said, the tendency to paint any two factions as polar opposites that by necessity need to exterminate another eventually is just oversimplification of the situation, imho. It's even more simplistic than the picture CCP is already painting.

Yes, of course its only Americans who make sweeping broad generalizations about things.  Im so glad Europeans are too advanced to make such blanket statements regarding a situation. 

(and yes, this is sarcasm if you missed it)
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"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov

Vikarion

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Re: Re: Rationale behind Minmatar-Caldari friendliness
« Reply #2 on: 28 Dec 2012, 04:08 »

Yes, of course its only Americans who make sweeping broad generalizations about things.  Im so glad Europeans are too advanced to make such blanket statements regarding a situation. 

(and yes, this is sarcasm if you missed it)

Ohh, better watch out. I already got modded for saying the same thing. The original comment, however, stands.
« Last Edit: 28 Dec 2012, 04:10 by Vikarion »
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Laerise [PIE]

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Re: Re: Rationale behind Minmatar-Caldari friendliness
« Reply #3 on: 28 Dec 2012, 04:41 »

bah, responding to flame baiting will just get moderated anyways  :cry:
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Nicoletta Mithra

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Re: Re: Rationale behind Minmatar-Caldari friendliness
« Reply #4 on: 28 Dec 2012, 09:55 »

Yes, of course its only Americans who make sweeping broad generalizations about things.  Im so glad Europeans are too advanced to make such blanket statements regarding a situation. 

(and yes, this is sarcasm if you missed it)

As I fail to see where I make a sweeping genearalization when I am simply noting that in my experience there's more of a tendency of seeing a necessity for polar opposites on the political stage with Americans than Europeans (And seeing such a necessity isn't quite the same as a propensity for sweeping generalitzations, I might add!), I feel somewhat misrepresented by your sarcastic proposition.

P.S.: It certainly wasn't my intention to flamebait of offend people's feelings here.  If I did so, I apologize and if someone offers a way how I can state what I experienced in a less offensive way, I'll certainly rephrase it. It's just my experience and of course thus might very well be wrong. As such I didn't think this tangent would incur the wrath of the US-Americans. So I added it as I think it's also interesting to reflected on the "why people come up with these two differing interpretations".
« Last Edit: 28 Dec 2012, 10:53 by Nicoletta Mithra »
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Vikarion

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Re: Re: Rationale behind Minmatar-Caldari friendliness
« Reply #5 on: 28 Dec 2012, 10:52 »

Yes, of course its only Americans who make sweeping broad generalizations about things.  Im so glad Europeans are too advanced to make such blanket statements regarding a situation. 

(and yes, this is sarcasm if you missed it)

As I fail to see where I make a sweeping genearalization when I am simply noting that in my experience there's more of a tendency of seeing a necessity for polar opposites on the political stage with Americans than Europeans (And seeing such a necessity isn't quite the same as a propensity for sweeping generalitzations, I might add!), I feel somewhat misrepresented by your sarcastic proposition.

Your personal observations are just that: personal observations. Anecdotal evidence isn't. To make generalizations about an entire nation based on your own interactions is not rational, as it can't possibly be a representative sampling of the overall population.

To put it in the subject matter of the thread, any particular Caldari and Minmatar man or woman might get along famously. However, this does not imply that all Caldari and Minmatar, or even a large amount, will get along.
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Nicoletta Mithra

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Re: Re: Rationale behind Minmatar-Caldari friendliness
« Reply #6 on: 28 Dec 2012, 10:56 »

Vikarion: I specified that it was my experience and that it's been a tendency I noted. If I had written: "Americans see these polar opposites as a necessity, while Europeans are able to see the complex reality" I'd have understood your anger. Also, see my post scriptum above.
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Silver Night

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Re: Rationale behind Minmatar-Caldari friendliness
« Reply #7 on: 28 Dec 2012, 11:30 »

[mod]I missed the first post before - still only human etc. That being said, it still doesn't make it acceptable to respond again with off-topic comments. As for Nicoletta's post, please keep RL politics out of it if you can't keep them non-flamebaity.[/mod]

Edit: I understand the intention may not have been to be flame-bait, but text isn't good at conveying either tone or intent sometimes.
« Last Edit: 28 Dec 2012, 11:34 by Silver Night »
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