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[BloodBird]

I don't see how this will change the dynamic of lowsec.  The apocalyptic "this is going to break EVE" stuff is kinda derp.  And what on earth "honor" and "vigilantes" and "pirates" have to do with FW mechanics kinda escapes me inasmuch as the states of all of those things are pretty much completely unaffected by FW, with the possible exception of the latter, as pirates can use FW mechanics to avoid sec hits if they feel the desire to do so.

Bacch, I realize your pirate alliance don't give much of a fuck about this, but let me outline the problem for you.

Low-sec; Piracy. Random null-alliance blobs. Hot-drops. Never-mined ore-belts. Quasi-piratical militias that would shoot you soon as look on you. Constant threat of death.

These are the things any random not-an-alt-genuinely-a-noob player who enters low-sec can expect. Unless hes' out looking for trouble, that is, he's an up-and coming pirate, blockade-buster trader selling in low-sec, a rat-hunter, or whatever... he can expect a few scenarios. If he don't get to a station or leave low-sec soon, the pirates will kill him. If they don't, the random fleet of bored null-sec pilots will. If they don't the militia will flag him an alt, spy or whatever and kill him. IF they bother to make up an excuse at all.

Excessive use of alts can do that. Boring null-sec situations can do that. An over-abundance of pirates and pirate-wannabes will do that.

When I speak of 'vigilantes' I speak of people who take the law into their own hands to punish/kill criminals. In EVE that translates to players killing pirates because they can; wanna pirate? Be my guest, but you will get flagged for that and I can then kill you with no sec-hit to my self. Generally, because I like my option to get to/live in high-sec (for whatever reason) I will refrain from killing random passers-byes ("Honorable" conduct) and leave well enough alone... if I'm allowed to. Originally before FW there were pirates vs the occasional null-sec folks (0.0 was FAR MORE interesting back in the day) vs the rest; the rest was anything from random folks doing whatever (that species of fish went extinct years ago due over-fishing) to the occasional vigilante patrol. Or so I've been told - I have *never* in my life ran across the latter.

When FW hit I expected the problem of 50-pirates-vs-1-vigilante ratio to get worse; after all nothing at all stopped the militias from pirating on the side or for pirates to join, and the wide-spread use of alternate toons leads many corps who were not out-right pirates to get flagged soon enough too. Only cure? Run missions. Many missions. Often. <-Boring shit.

Still I held out some small hope that perhaps FW's coming would get the odds more 'even' - maybe, just maybe, things would balance out and more folks would dare to set up in low-sec, maybe mine the ore, get some industry going, join or help the militia of choice, perhaps we might even see the militias working as the vigilante forces to counter wide-spread piracy. And maybe all of low-sec would be ablaze with this militia vs piracy war going all the time, more folks, more activity, more action.

That hope was ofc a fool's dream, and what little vestige of possibility there were will die soon enough when anyone from CVA and EM to goons and PL can show up. Low-sec will become null-sec lite - those who don't spend all day being blobbed to death or pirating the few remaining neutrals around will be blued to hell and back. Anyone entering low-sec will either be hunted down and die in short order or will join the band-wagon blob-fest of choice. No more small-gangs. No more FW. No more hope to revitalize low-sec into a fun, entertaining place to be.

War-deck has become a joke, in general. Low-sec will die off soon. Null is NAP-festing bloob coalitions duking it out with 100 titans backed with 1000 capitals. All I *EVER* wanted was entertainment and fun in a challenging but manageable fight, WITHOUT barring myself from all of high-sec in the process. Being able to RP a reason for all of that would be a huge freaking bonus. Where the fuck did the challenge, fun and entertainment go?

I'll tell you; It died in a fire lighted by the kill-board, fueled by the cowardice that prevents people from daring to risk a set of pixels, goaded on by the ego of kill-board whoring assholes and finally covered over by a few bad choices from CCP.

[mod]Please avoid rants filled with insults about play-styles you disagree with. Please try to post constructively. [/mod]

[Bacchanalian]

I don't see how this will change the dynamic of lowsec.  The apocalyptic "this is going to break EVE" stuff is kinda derp.  And what on earth "honor" and "vigilantes" and "pirates" have to do with FW mechanics kinda escapes me inasmuch as the states of all of those things are pretty much completely unaffected by FW, with the possible exception of the latter, as pirates can use FW mechanics to avoid sec hits if they feel the desire to do so.

Bacch, I realize your pirate alliance

I stopped reading when it became apparent that you're mentally challenged right about there.

[mod]Please don't post flames.[/mod]

[Milo Caman]

I don't see how this will change the dynamic of lowsec.  The apocalyptic "this is going to break EVE" stuff is kinda derp.  And what on earth "honor" and "vigilantes" and "pirates" have to do with FW mechanics kinda escapes me inasmuch as the states of all of those things are pretty much completely unaffected by FW, with the possible exception of the latter, as pirates can use FW mechanics to avoid sec hits if they feel the desire to do so.

Bacch, I realize your pirate alliance

Must- not- snark-

[mod]Please don't make posts that encourage flame wars.[/mod]

[BloodBird]

I don't see how this will change the dynamic of lowsec.  The apocalyptic "this is going to break EVE" stuff is kinda derp.  And what on earth "honor" and "vigilantes" and "pirates" have to do with FW mechanics kinda escapes me inasmuch as the states of all of those things are pretty much completely unaffected by FW, with the possible exception of the latter, as pirates can use FW mechanics to avoid sec hits if they feel the desire to do so.

Bacch, I realize your pirate alliance

I stopped reading when it became apparent that you're mentally challenged right about there.

How mature. If I am wrong, enlighten me. If you are not a childish moron, don't respond like one.

In short; overlook my classification of your alliance and deal with my argument, if you can, or concede that I am right.

Must- not- snark-

Snark away, Milo. Nothing stops you.

[Bacchanalian]

I don't see how this will change the dynamic of lowsec.  The apocalyptic "this is going to break EVE" stuff is kinda derp.  And what on earth "honor" and "vigilantes" and "pirates" have to do with FW mechanics kinda escapes me inasmuch as the states of all of those things are pretty much completely unaffected by FW, with the possible exception of the latter, as pirates can use FW mechanics to avoid sec hits if they feel the desire to do so.

Bacch, I realize your pirate alliance

I stopped reading when it became apparent that you're mentally challenged right about there.

How mature. If I am wrong, enlighten me. If you are not a childish moron, don't respond like one.

In short; overlook my classification of your alliance and deal with my argument, if you can, or concede that I am right.

Seeing as your classification of my alliance tells me about all I need to know about your worldview in EVE, I don't think it's really worth my time or effort to try and convince you that people who make ships that belong to other players explode aren't all pirates, or that people who are proper "pirates" often have a much more impressive sense of ~ehonour than your rank and file organization.  In fact, I can't think of many organizations I've flown for or against that have as much ~ehonour as a pirate organization we fly with daily, Veto.

[Silver Night]

[mod]Everyone needs to keep in mind that no matter your feelings about the many ways Eve can be played, insulting them here isn't alright. Responding to rants with flame-bait and insults also isn't alright.[/mod]

[BloodBird]

Seeing as your classification of my alliance tells me about all I need to know about your worldview in EVE, I don't think it's really worth my time or effort to try and convince you that people who make ships that belong to other players explode aren't all pirates, or that people who are proper "pirates" often have a much more impressive sense of ~ehonour than your rank and file organization.  In fact, I can't think of many organizations I've flown for or against that have as much ~ehonour as a pirate organization we fly with daily, Veto.

Bacch, what I classify your alliance as is functionally irrelevant. IIRC Rote Kapelle is an alliance of PVP'ers who have no problem engaging with anything in low-sec, because they can. That works for you - it would work for me IF I were in your alliance or one similar to it, but I'm not. My use of terms like 'honor' 'pirate' and whatever are just that; TERMS. Merely words and phrases that holds meanings, and I used them to try and be understood. You have a better or more accurate description for RK? Then share it and I'll use it instead.

I referred to your alliance as 'pirates' because it's the most fitting overall term that I could think of, unless you prefer 'terrorist' - IIRC that's the IC angle for the alliance. I've not checked in several months to a year though, so I may well be wrong or even misinformed.

Whatever you think you know about me and my viewpoints are likely false. You don't know me, Bacch. I don't give a shit about 'ehonor' - the term is outdated, insulting, and idiotic as no such thing exists. I don't give a shit about what you, RK, or Veto thinks or does - you are different players all who enjoy different things from me; so I did other things and aspired to other goals and left you to your own stuff.

However, the point I was trying to get across is that, while you and RK may not care about how this works (for all I know) my viewpoint is that the militias, piracy, null-sec fleets and the now extinct anti-pirate 'vigilante' patrols I never saw all formed together to make low-sec what it is. With the latter gone, piracy running near unopposed and soon-to-be null-sec ally blobs running rampant I fully expect low-sec to become boring, stale and a wasted effort within months. FW is likely to die off entirely along with it, and I don't want either of those two to happen - but by my estimations that's what WILL happen, eventually.

That's pretty much it. A final note for you;

If I make an assumption or statement like saying 'RK is x' and then go on to make an argument based on my own, possibly flawed/misinformed opinion, I would expect people who know better or think they know better, to respond with something like 'Your wrong, RK is not X it is Y for Z reason, as for your post X is not likely to happen due to Y and etc. etc. etc...' That would be a constructive counter-argument. I don't respect people that go from there to 'Your clearly retarded'; just fling some personal insult as an excuse to ignore my entire post and make no effort to correct my mistake(s). If I'm wrong, tell me why.

[BloodBird]

Reported my own last post.

For the record, my first two posts were intended as explanations about a viewpoint about the coming super-fail of FW - not as insult towards any specific person or group, or any rants towards any play-styles at all.

My new year's resolutions should likely have been to improve my communication skills 

Bacch, all I had for you are in the catacombs.