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[Invelious]

hugs Morwen

[Julianus Soter]

It was an unfortunate failing of Star Fraction policy to clarify neutral standings between our organizations.

You claim that it was a matter of pride that you didn't seek to conclude the wardec after the first month, 6 weeks ago? You were worried about losing the wardec? I believe the peace arrangements that we discussed directly, Jade Constantine, involved a non-discussion agreement on the IGS. How could anyone claim victory if it was forbidden by the agreement to end the war? Nobody would even know the war ended!

This could have been over two months ago with a simple chat, but instead Star Fraction continued the wardec. Surely you must realize my concerns that this seems altogether too 'convenient' to have been a legitimate IC vendetta

And to add: none of the points have thus far been satisfactorally addressed. Indeed, we've moved down the slippery slope from 'Causus Belli' to 'pride' in our list of justifications. And indeed, whose pride are we talking about? Your chacater's pride, or your personal pride?

As you've stated before, there's no real difference between OOC and IC. . . .

[Jade Constantine]

It was an unfortunate failing of Star Fraction policy to clarify neutral standings between our organizations.

Would that really have made any difference if (as your pilot publicly stated on IGS) Moira operate NSBI in 0.0?

You claim that it was a matter of pride that you didn't seek to conclude the wardec after the first month, 6 weeks ago? You were worried about loosing the wardec? I believe the peace arrangements that we discussed directly, Jade Constantine, involved a non-discussion agreement on the IGS. How could anyone claim victory if it was forbidden by the agreement to end the war? Nobody would even know the war ended!

Your "non-discussion agreement on IGS" was actually one of the elements of the peace proposal that our pilots rejected out of hand believing it was simply an attempt for you to save face when you had been roundly defeated in the war at that point. Free Captains fly where they choose and speak where they choose. People don't join the Star Fraction to be muzzled on IGS.

+ We had been winning decisively at the beginning of the tower siege. Then Rote and Veto declared for Moira and you managed to bnc on a sequence of high profile kills. To make peace at that point would have looked weak (and been weak) and the audience would have correctly concluded that SF had been bullied into peace by superior numbers of Rote and Veto military pilots. It would added to Verone's reputation and mystique at the cost of our own and it was deemed unpalatable by our members.

Hence we needed to prepare for a long war and turn things around again. The reason we're talking now is because we've recovered our position and gained our win conditions - thats quite straightforward surely?

This could have been over two months ago with a simple chat, but instead Star Fraction continued the wardec. Surely you must realize my concerns that this seems altogether too 'convenient' to have been a legitimate IC vendetta.

Well look over your comments in local in Ostingele Soter, you weren't that keen to have a friendly chat back then. I agree, matters could have been resolved, if you had come to me and said "look we've destroyed one of your bombers how do we make this right?" chances are I'd have said ... "buy the pilot a replacement and say sorry for shooting you down" and that would have been that.

But the thing with hindsight it is 20/20. Back then you thought we were a bit rubbish ... And the tone of your initial IC propaganda posting made it clear you expected to win the war. Your own pilots in week 2 said it best when they told us that after seeing the 30th SF abaddon docking in Pelille they realized this wasn't a fight they could win.

I don't hold that against you though, you took a bet and it didn't pay off. If it had you might have ended up with a dead SF scalp on your belt

And to add: none of the points have thus far been satisfactorally addressed. Indeed, we've moved down the slippery slope from 'Causus Belli' to 'pride' in our list of justifications. And indeed, whose pride are we talking about? Your chacater's pride, or your personal pride? As you've stated before, there's no real difference between OOC and IC. . . .

I think you are misrepresenting my comments there and its not that useful to reply to this last point.

[Julianus Soter]

I actually voiced my concerns to my pilots before engaging the Stealth Bomber, but then remembered you had us set red. Thus, I believed that any action against it would've not generated new standings.

As I recall, Star Fraction's avowed NRDS policy only has any legitimacy if those standings are communicated directly to the leadership of those organizations you are setting red, correct? If you do not, then you can merely claim to have red standings with a target of opportunity, then add those standings in retrospect. Or, you can claim you were neutral towards another group, and thus legitimize a wardec in the future.

Without any communication, standings are largely vestigial remnants of an NRDS group that is in actuality an NBSI group.

[Casiella]

[mod]Argumentative and overly critical. This thread has run its course and then some.[/mod]