Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => General Non-RP EVE Discussion => Topic started by: IzzyChan on 18 Jul 2010, 08:20
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http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=777
Massively also talks about it: http://www.massively.com/2010/07/17/new-devblog-reveals-only-54-developers-working-on-eve-online/
Working hard towards making EVE better or stretching themselves too thin? Discuss. :o
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The Massively article pissed me off (I'm "Darkdust" in the comments there). First, "only" 54? What makes it "only"? How do we know that's not a huge number? I don't have context for it.
Second, Incarna is EVE. That's like saying that only X devs worked on EVE, the rest worked on wormholes. That wasn't part of EVE before, so clearly it's not core gameplay.
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70 developers for Incarna? :eek:
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Incarna is the beta for WoD online.
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It's not unusual to see smaller teams working on features in mmos. Too many cooks in the kitchen spills shit everywhere, as they say.
I just hope CCP doesn't try to do too many things (dust, incarna, WoD) at once and get confused. ._.
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...I don't follow what peoples' issues are with the team size. It seems pretty good to me, and they look to be trying to add about 10-20 more based on their "jobs" page.
100 people for 1 game spread about its various aspects?
So what's the problem, exactly?
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The problem is that some folks hate the very idea of Incarna so much that they criticize CCP for focusing on it, to the exclusion of current gameplay.
I firmly believe that CCP needs to return to its theme of 'excellence' and quit leaving things half-complete, but I also understand that they've thrown so many resources into Incarna that stopping it now would be a colossal mistake.
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Things to understand: Incarna is coming down to the wire, it's the last few bursts before release. Once that is done that team is going to shrink and other teams are going to grow. Incarna has been a goal of CCP since pre-WoD Online, so anyone who says it is "WoD Beta" is talking out of their butts. They've wanted to give us walking on stations and flying through atmospheres for a really long time, longer than they were going to be building a regular style MMO.
That they're almost done with it is commendable, and they will continue to commit more people to it as it nears the release point.
Once it releases and they get the first few patches into it, anyone that thinks that team won't be spread elsewhere has no understanding of how MMO development works.
And also might need to be drug out and shot.
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The big issue people have, and that I have, is that CCP is ignoring the problems, ignoring even the bugs, and leaving features to wither and die.
COSMOS
Faction Warefare
T3
Sov mechanics
Game Balance
They've done things like leave game balance out to dry, I mean come on, where is a Rocket fix? for that matter where is the hybrid weapon fix? When are the Faction Warefare bugs and imbalances going to be fixed? When is COSMOS going to be revamped and possibly brought into the epic arc system?
Its not that CCP is focusing on Incarna that people are raging over, its the fact that they're focusing on new features while letting existing ones lie sallow.
I would have no problem with the 7 teams they have on Incarna, if the 3 content teams on eve weren't also focused on some tba new features. If those three teams were focused on iterating upon existing content and cleaning up the mess left from previous expansions, then I'd give CCP a hug, and tell them they were the best developers ever. But as it stands, they're entirely focused on glitz and glam and have left the existing content to rot.
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It's easy to make assumptions like that when you ignore the fact that you're not apart of the design process or planning.
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The big issue people have, and that I have, is that CCP is ignoring the problems, ignoring even the bugs, and leaving features to wither and die.
COSMOS
Faction Warefare
T3
Sov mechanics
Game Balance
This is a horrible assumption.
I would have no problem with the 7 teams they have on Incarna, if the 3 content teams on eve weren't also focused on some tba new features. If those three teams were focused on iterating upon existing content and cleaning up the mess left from previous expansions, then I'd give CCP a hug, and tell them they were the best developers ever. But as it stands, they're entirely focused on glitz and glam and have left the existing content to rot.
So is this.
You're in a situation where they've had new content coming to roost and it's very near release day. Obviously this will become the attention focus during that time period, just like every other development company around. When Civ4: Beyond The Sword was nearing completion, patches for Civ4 Vanilla and Civ4: Warlords came to a straight halt. Upon completion of BtS, focus was reshifted to something else.
This does not mean that they have "ignored the bugs and left them to wither and die". It means that they have focussed on final polish of imminent-release content.
This is game development, this is how it works. Upon the release and first few initial patches of Incarna, it is incredibly likely (as even CCP stated multiple times according to the meeting minutes with CSM) that they intend to refocus on balancing and resolving issues with current content.
As it should be.
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Given Noah Ward's comments at the last Fanfest roundtable on FW, I don't think it's an assumptio nto say they aren't working heavily on it.
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Not really waiting/longing for Incarna anymore. Not that i do not want it as such but its been a long time now and also my main worry is that it will not bring much. Freemoving avatars would be nice but gone need to be some real substance also.
I mean how many players are really gone be able to be bartenders, hairdressers, sit play poker for any longer amount of time.
If its just gone be that you can wander around, take a drink and chat wothout much else available to do it will be a huge waste of effort.
Hopefully it all will turn out better than i expect though.
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If its just gone be that you can wander around, take a drink and chat wothout much else available to do it will be a huge waste of effort.
It's about making it a full space simulation game, and I think it's cool, regardless of what it tangibly adds.
And either way, it's better than station spinning. :D
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Think of it as foundation for more to be built on top of.
For the most part it's primarily something that benefits RPers. So really none of us should be upset about it, as it adds more to what we do.
For the basis of things, though, it gives the option for missions to spread to the ground. This can only be beneficial long term.
CCP's development type seems to be "build a solid foundation, then build on top of it" for better or for worse.
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Back in the day the early mmos weren't just about pure combat. It could be a refreshing change to mindless pew pew now and again.
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CCP's development type seems to be "build a solid foundation, then build on top of it" for better or for worse.
Sarcasm, right?
Please?
Please let this be sarcasm. :mad:
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No, it's not sarcasm. It's how they do stuff. They build a solid foundation, then they build up from there. You may not agree with how they build up, or you may not agree with the foundation, I know that I have my differences with many of their decisions. . .
But that's still how they do things.
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No, it's not sarcasm. It's how they do stuff. They build a solid foundation, then they build up from there. You may not agree with how they build up, or you may not agree with the foundation, I know that I have my differences with many of their decisions. . .
But that's still how they do things.
No Lilith, that isn't how it works, yes, they build the foundation, but then, like a child with ADHD, they abandon the foundation to start on a new project.
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Ok ok ok ok... Seriously.
Here is the gist of the problem:
CCP is more concerned with their six-month expansion cycle than fixing currently broken game mechanics. They basically rush to shit out an expansion, release it and then immediately start work on another expansion. The only problem is that the expansions are filled with bugs and shit that needs to be fixed, which is to be expected. However, they allocate a very very small group of devs to fix current problems and put everyone else on the new things. This has been going over like a fart in church for some time now among the player base.
Which brings me to the business standpoint. When you make a post asking your player base to vote for your game and you get 80 pages of replies telling you to go fuck yourself, maybe you should re-think how you're approaching the game.
Problems:
-Python coding SUCKSSSSSSSSS and they're just trying to fix it with duck tape.
-Current coding and server capacity essentially protects the major powerblocs, because you can't use the full strength of your navy and if you reduce your numbers, you give them control of the grid.
-FW mechanics are horribly broken.
-0.0 PLEX's are broken
-Insurance is still pointless
-PI is broken... people are making more money off of the people doing PI than people doing PI are making.
-There are lots of bugs in the index/sov system that need to be addressed because... well upgrades ain't cheap, son.
-Invisible aggro timers on low sec gates and stations. Your GCC runs out so you undock, only to get shot at and get another 15 minutes.
-Aggression timers in general, suck
-There are still lvl 4 missions in low sec. Wtf
-FIX THE GODDAMN BONUSES ON THE NAGLFAR!
-Make blasters useful
-Make the Eos useful
-Fix Gallente ships in general
-Make the firetail have a purpose
... this is all I can think of atm, but this is a good start to the laundry list of shit that's wrong. I mean, how many years ago did they release FW? And they STILL haven't fixed any of the bugs. They released it and forgot about it.
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You seem to have confused fixes players care about (blasters, FW, aggro timers) with the technical nitty-gritty of how to fix them (Python).
If you think they're taking too long now, imagine what would happen if they removed the scripting language upon which so much of the game is based.
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Oh no I understand the difference. The overall source of the flaw is the horrible coding used and the time it's been around. Now there's just soooooooo much coding, there's no way to go in and rewrite it without fucking all of it up. So they just write new stuff and plug it in.
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I can't possibly relate to most of those points. Insurance is essentially free money created from nothing when a ship is blown up. Very handy to have money have that happen. You only insure ships likely to be destroyed in high-risk operations, and it allows you to take more risks with the ships you own. It's a subsidy to PVP.
The Naglfar bonuses have been played around with. People still use them.
Why are you complaining about level 4 missions in lowsec again? It at the very least forces people to take a break from mission grind sprees and possibly even *gasp* quelle horreur leave highsec for once.
Aggression timers limit stupid tag-and-jump tactics. It's too easy to activate a stargate or dock. we need the timers to enable retaliation.
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It's not free money, you have to pay for it.
People still use the Naglfar, yes. But it still doesn't change the fact that the ship forces you to use a split weapons system and only gives a bonus to one.
I, personally, don't give a fuck about missions in low sec. There people who do, though. And lvl 4s are supposed to be high sec and lvl 5s are supposed to be in low sec.
And I know the reasons for having aggression timers. Yes I think they are a good thing. Stop arguing for the sake of arguing and pay attention to what I said please. I said the mechanics are broken. You shoot at someone, go GCC and go dock to wait 15 minutes. The 15 minutes run out, an aggression timer is no longer shown, so you undock and BOOM... station guns shoot at you and you now have another 15 minutes of GCC. We called invisible aggro and normally end up having to wait 5 minutes or something after GCC runs out to make sure this happens. But, there's no real way to tell and it doesn't always work because the mechanics are broken.
This isn't me bitching. These, along with everything else I listed and more, are all things that other players have mentioned too.
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Unless you've seen the code and have kept up with their internal refactoring activity, I don't think we can make such assertions.
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You can't please everyone.
And all those people are playing this game.
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You can't please everyone.
And all those people are playing this game.
Because it doesn't really cost any $$$. If CCP did away with buying game time in-game, there would be a mass exodus of people leaving.
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Well, they still get their money. And yes, there was a time when the ONLY reason I could play EVE was due to PLEX. Lots of those who'd leave wouldn't simply do so due to perceived quality issues but due to RL financial constraints. Capsuleers don't have to worry about unemployment or school or medical bills. ;)
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I agree...
But many would leave too because this game is growing to the point where it wouldn't be worth paying money for. I know myself and many of my friends only still play because of PLEX. If they started charging money for it, I wouldn't stick around.