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EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => CCP Public Library => Topic started by: Casiella on 13 Dec 2016, 12:25

Title: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Casiella on 13 Dec 2016, 12:25
So the "one mind one body" thing from Inheritance (https://community.eveonline.com/backstory/chronicles/inheritance/) is effectively a game mechanic as well (you can't have multiple clones of the same character active).

I'm trying to work out the right question to ask here. What I really want to know is whether this is something we know ICly (perhaps the Jove told us), or whether it's legit speculation for characters. I remember writing some terribad fanfic a few years back about "integration" when bringing multiple clones back together.

Honestly, that's probably not quite the right question. I'm just thinking about all this as I start to look back at stuff I RPed about before - cybernetics, being an infomorph, etc etc., and where to find an entrance point to RP again without going all into Drifter research or WE COME FOR OUR PEOPLE.



we do though
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Xepharious on 13 Dec 2016, 13:02
This is actually something that Saede played with a bit (or flat out rejected as a limit, I'm not sure which)

I know that in Origin we've just sort of magiced a way around this with "Science and hacking" to allow for multiplying but at the cost of only being allowed one clone in k-space at a time and the opportunity for amusing antics of an overstressed multiple. I think the idea is that only the primary clone has the bandwidth to capsuleer but you may need to get Saede to weigh in more on how she envisioned that in response to Inheritance.
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Samira Kernher on 13 Dec 2016, 13:18
ICly it is treated as something that is scientifically possible but limited by very strict regulations from CONCORD forbidding multiple active clones of the same individual. There has been some indication that some people get around this by alternative personas (in other words, alts), including the fact that King Khanid has multiple active clones of himself (two of them talking face to face during the recent Shathol'Syn).

If you're talking about the different clones all having access to each other's perceptions at the same time, in a one mind multiple bodies scenario, that's a bit more farfetched. More doable with Sleeper technology perhaps (as DUST clones are linked up to a central database that houses their core consciousness which they continually update from the sleeper implant that takes up a majority of their cranial cavity, though unable to be done at ranges beyond planetary).
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Ashley on 13 Dec 2016, 13:54
In EVE: True Stories they called them (alts) - "jump clones" (http://i.imgur.com/Y3tLhnu.jpg) for some reason.
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Casiella on 13 Dec 2016, 14:11
Sure, but True Stories was trying to capture some decidedly OOC mechanics and do so in a way that made sense to non-EVE players. It's a great read and I love having it but I don't know how much of it can apply in RP.

Although making a bunch of alts as " jump clones" of Casi is almost a good idea. Especially if we go all transhumanist and disregard genders and even bloodlines...
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Xepharious on 13 Dec 2016, 15:22
Doesn't the Empyrean Age have a character who changes between entire personas (bodies)?
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Arnulf Ogunkoya on 13 Dec 2016, 15:26
Doesn't the Empyrean Age have a character who changes between entire personas (bodies)?

The Broker, yes. But he is definitely an edge case. Also, for some weird reason, he has a disease that follows him from clone to clone. It's why he's trying to gain control of the Insorum stocks. I mean, how does that work.

Tony G plots, go figure!
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Casiella on 13 Dec 2016, 16:10
LolTonyG... seemed like a nice guy but when it came to working with his PF... :psyccp:
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Xepharious on 14 Dec 2016, 08:03
I like to think that my RP is flexible but yeah, having conflicting PF is pretty much a given. Sometimes I think starting Sunswept was like walking blindfolded into a minefield but hey, hopefully I can avoid any TonyG-like eddies. Haven't gotten any feedback on it yet so I guess it's not too tragic? *shrug*
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Casiella on 14 Dec 2016, 08:51
So I got some feedback last night that several players RP as multiples in various ways. It seems like the community's view on this is not nearly as settled as I'd imagined.
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Xepharious on 14 Dec 2016, 10:13
That might imply that the community was settled on anything...
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Jev North on 14 Dec 2016, 10:28
The litmus test is basically "can you sell it to the people whose opinions you care about."
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Casiella on 14 Dec 2016, 11:11
Xepharious: Sure, but some things are more widely accepted than others.

Jev: I tend to agree, but when it's more in the direction of RPing that something isn't possible and a bunch of folks are "well no I pretend that it is anyway", it leads me to a bit of a rethink.

For extra clarity: not suggesting anyone else is wrong. Thinking about how I want to roll for my own characters but this is not in any way reflective of what other people should somehow feel constrained by. I personally like to stay well within the bounds of PF and not edge up to the boundaries, that's all.
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Saede Riordan on 14 Dec 2016, 12:17
I play as a multiple, yes. I don't have multiple versions of Saede as pod pilots, because its a bit of a pain in the ass to pull that off well, and I really don't multibox enough to warrant that sort of thing.

I roleplay it as follows: Saede has seven clones. One of them is the 'toy' clone that's mostly cybernetic that everyone sees all the time. Two is a 50/50 biological/synthetic clone with as many military grade implants as could be crammed into it. Three is a withered husk of a nervous system that never leaves the pod, and four through seven are basic organic clones with a few utility implants.

All these clones are connected together in real time by a network architecture similar to that used by Sansha's nation to create a gestalt consciousness out of all of the active clones.

Of course, even if the above premise is considered an acceptable one, and I personally don't consider it a steep departure from the lore, there's still the matter of it being highly illegal.

I personally take the opinion that CONCORD are not omnipotent, and banning a player OOC does not act as a proxy for CONCORD being able to reach in the pod and have full control over us, but that's what a lot of the root issues boil down to. We say 'we're in wormhole space, CONCORD can't stop us' and other players go 'yes they can, stop being bads', and that's essentially the root of the entire disagreement.
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Xepharious on 14 Dec 2016, 12:18
Casiella; TOOOTALY respect that. And yes, you are right, I was being melodramatic about it.

You are welcome to use any of our resource material on it, and I do play with it in Sunswept so reference if ya like. CONCORD generally couldn't allow it (cause game mechanic) but as long as you had a plausible way around that (i.e. WH) then I say go for it! The RP potential is all sorts of amusing.
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Ashley on 17 Jan 2017, 10:37
Sure, but True Stories was trying to capture some decidedly OOC mechanics and do so in a way that made sense to non-EVE players. It's a great read and I love having it but I don't know how much of it can apply in RP.

Although making a bunch of alts as " jump clones" of Casi is almost a good idea. Especially if we go all transhumanist and disregard genders and even bloodlines...
Sorry for the super late reply.

Yeah, absolutely true. Altho that said from EVE Source "... stories persist of people blurring the lines of personhood and indentity even further by cloning themselves into completely different bodies, across the gender and race gaps.", so that make it in a gray area of "quite possible".
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Morwen Lagann on 17 Jan 2017, 11:41
I would probably point out that in the case of the True Stories comic books, the person doing the writing abstracted the game mechanics heavily.

While it's certainly in the realm of possibility to jump clones into someone else, there are going to be a variety of assorted issues that result in it, not the least of it is that your proprioception is gonna be broken as fuck swapping between bodies that aren't close to identical.

I've always treated those comics IC as being exactly what they are OOC: embellished retellings of actual ingame events in a graphic novel format, and written by authors who aren't familiar with How Things Actually Work or are dumbing things down for their baseliner audience. So I tend not to take anything they say about technology with anything less than a Dead Sea's worth of salt.
Title: Re: "Inheritance" and "One mind, one body"
Post by: Xepharious on 17 Jan 2017, 15:02
One thing that I do play with in Sunswept is the idea that you could have a consciousness swap to a different body but that there would potentially be massive consequences form someone who did so unaided. Having your conscious mind try to acclimate to an entirely different nervous system would take a lot of time and effort and likely medical help.  Give that some fiction had that this was possible for capsuleers (The Broker) I didn't want to contradict that but instead focused on what it would take for a non-capsuleer to accomplish something like this.

Lucky for me, one of Origin's tenants is that Digital Sapience (Sentient AI in a biological body) is very much a thing. This gave me the avenue to assume that a digital format of human consciousness could theoretically be transplanted into a different body as well. In my opinion, consequences, good and bad, are the meat of any good plot so I didn't make it easy to do, but it is there.

I won't pretend that my work has any bearing on the community at large but if you were looking for at least some reference to the 'sci-fi science' behind it you are more than welcome to use what I put out there.

((Also, my most recent chapter dug into implants and how they interface with the mind a bit, for those who might want to play with that idea))