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EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Casiella on 05 Dec 2016, 14:51

Title: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Casiella on 05 Dec 2016, 14:51
So I've been trying to piece together the state of Minmatar RP, and it seems rather thin. There was the Amarr coronation, naturally, at which the Sanmatar appeared and partied down ( :psyccp: ). The alpha clone recruitment stuff applied to all the empires in their own ways, obviously, along with the various tech advances for clones and new ships and whatnot.

But when I peek into the IGS forum, the stuff that is empire-focused almost all revolves around the Fed-State conflict. And while I don't particularly care about simplistic back-and-forth with the Amarr ("slaver!" "primitive!"), there's still something about the punk look and rusty ships and ornery sorts that appeals to me.

So is Minmatar RP dead, or just hiding?
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Samira Kernher on 05 Dec 2016, 16:55
Mostly dead, unfortunately. There's the occasional isolated minmatar RPer, and private minmatar RP going on, but as a community there isn't one. Some ostensibly minmatar RP corps still exist, but one of them is almost entirely OOC these days, and the other, if it's even still active, is very isolated.

Though, the lack of RP corps is a pretty common issue these days. The majority of RPers tend to fall in OOC corps and engage in RP as secondary to their main interests. This limits the ability for any individual IC community (like factional communities) to really grow and flourish.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Xepharious on 06 Dec 2016, 08:23
We in Origin do have a kind-of Minmatar/Caldari mashup going on. The culture tends to pepper us a bit, especially as we've pulled in a few of the more Matari friendly RP folk. Best I can tell is that our beef is more with how the Republic is run than with the tenants of republic belief. (those of us in Origin that have a beef anyway) If you are looking for some RP I know we have a lot of folks who are generally up for good RP and those friendly to ALXVP are welcome to stop into the channel 'Sunny-side Up' on the auspices that they received temporary clearance into Origin for the visit.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Tabor Murn on 06 Dec 2016, 09:00
Minnie RP scene seems pretty sparse. Maybe I no longer know where to look for it.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Deitra Vess on 06 Dec 2016, 09:11
If it isn't nonexistent it also isn't exactly advertised. It does make sense that there is a little bit of a closed community thing going on (clan, ect) but I would think it would atleast be known that there are groups in general. I can't think of any that both exist and are active.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Utari Onzo on 06 Dec 2016, 09:19
The issue can be applied to all the factions including Pirate ones.

Without a strong, active, welcoming and inspiring core of player-characters, factional rpers will be left with little to do. You need people willing to stand up and create engaging content, and if those creators have burned out/stopped creating that becomes a vacuum to fill. It seems no one is stepping up to fill it.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Tabor Murn on 06 Dec 2016, 10:19
I've just kind of taken the approach of interacting with people in other factions for now. Had some decent RP with some Gallente and Amarr players.

We have had a couple players try to get things started over the last few years, it just never seems to gather enough momentum before the organizers give up.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Arnulf Ogunkoya on 09 Dec 2016, 14:27
Well. Ideally I'd like to build something around my "family" corp. What I had in mind was a fairly broad Republic loyalist group.

Membership criteria would be along the lines of Minmatar only apart from outsiders that show a sincere commitment to become tribespeople. A fairly wide range of political views would be tolerated. Just no outright support for slaver group, although negotiating with same would be acceptable.

With enough people to maintain around the clock coverage I'd like to start anti piracy patrols as per the old EM model. As far as I can tell nobody has been doing that for a while & that should provide enough excitement for the more aggresive pilots.

Does anyone have any thoughts, requests for stuff for the corp to do and suchlike?
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Nissui on 09 Dec 2016, 15:13
Does anyone have any thoughts, requests for stuff for the corp to do and suchlike?

Well, I'm not sure what arrangements you currently have, but if you ever feel the need to unload your junk loot or salvage, we maybe able to come to terms on some trade.

We're harvesting, building, and selling everything out of Molden Heath. Certainly not the only ones doing that, though.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Arnulf Ogunkoya on 09 Dec 2016, 15:35
Does anyone have any thoughts, requests for stuff for the corp to do and suchlike?

Well, I'm not sure what arrangements you currently have, but if you ever feel the need to unload your junk loot or salvage, we maybe able to come to terms on some trade.

We're harvesting, building, and selling everything out of Molden Heath. Certainly not the only ones doing that, though.

Trade is good. Nothing binds a group of organisations together better than the prospect of getting profit from one another. It also tallies well with the old EM idea of strengthening trade & industry.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Samira Kernher on 09 Dec 2016, 22:31
There's a Minmatar.OOC channel in-game by the way, for anyone that might be interested.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Saede Riordan on 14 Dec 2016, 11:29
I technically still have ownership of an old minmatar FW corporation on an alt. I was going to hand CEOship to Ava when she was talking about coming back to the game, but that never actually came to be. I'd be willing to turn the reigns for it over to someone else if I thought they could build something neat back up with it.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Arnulf Ogunkoya on 14 Dec 2016, 14:01
What I'd like to see is an alliance that inherits the space that Electus Matari previously occupied. That is to say Republican loyalists, but with a fairly broad range of political positions within that.

With enough muscle to take a poke at pirate groups preying on Minmatar low-sec and null-sec trade, and possibly give CODES's Minmatar space representatives a kicking. Got to find something for the more aggressive pilots to do after all.

The Sanmatar's trip to the coronation also opens up the possibility of relations with Imperial groups more complicated than "grrr, slavers."
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Elmund Egivand on 14 Dec 2016, 21:23

The Sanmatar's trip to the coronation also opens up the possibility of relations with Imperial groups more complicated than "grrr, slavers."

And this is a good thing.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Utari Onzo on 16 Dec 2016, 14:44
What I'd like to see is an alliance that inherits the space that Electus Matari previously occupied. That is to say Republican loyalists, but with a fairly broad range of political positions within that.

With enough muscle to take a poke at pirate groups preying on Minmatar low-sec and null-sec trade, and possibly give CODES's Minmatar space representatives a kicking. Got to find something for the more aggressive pilots to do after all.

The Sanmatar's trip to the coronation also opens up the possibility of relations with Imperial groups more complicated than "grrr, slavers."

Good luck getting the kinda numbers for that while still being able to retain a distinct RP identity. Most RP groups that end up getting the numbers to compete with todays lowsec 'pirate' groups end up very much not RP anymore outside of a dedicated few.

Sorry if that comes across strong, but, sadly it's been my experience with PIE (too few numbers) and Imp Dreams/CVA (big numbers, next to no RP outside of a handful of usual suspects, despite Imp Dreams being RP centric and a big push to join in with fac war for a while)
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Nmaro Makari on 22 Jan 2017, 21:15
Hello I'm the ghost of Nemo and somehow more cynical than I ever was alive.

Busy with not stalking the community, I came across this thread and it did make me think a little today.

In two words, it's dead.

In more words, it was dying even back in 2014 when I was playing (seriously). Why it is now dead, I can explain quite (ha) concisely, and it's important to state beforehand that none of this is laced with blame. Especially regarding one point.

1) Evaporation of pillar corps and alliances. Gutting the community's poster appeal and recruiting power.
2) Retirement of key characters. (It's okay. I'd weep for losing me too). One name in particular is relevant here, but will remain unsaid out of respect for the character and the player
3) Lack of access to key lore and PF (a la CCP), and abandonment of immersive setting. Links to 1 and 2. I believe, possibly wrongly, that to RP an Amarr or Matari well, you need a zest for the source material, beyond just the sanitised intro in char creation. I can mention numerous items, death of the wiki, death of (believable) Dev actors, and also the structure provided by experienced players and corps and informal groups, and more, that means this is now an obscure and drawn out task for a newcomer to Minnie RP. The frame is not there, and if it was there's few older siblings to teach us how to climb it.

But as threads here and old and new names out there evidence, while it may have died, another may live. Maybe. Circle of life and all that.

But who cares, I'm just a cynical ghost.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Milo Caman on 21 Feb 2017, 06:00
Necro'ing yet again, but Electus Matari did appear to briefly rise from the dead last week to come and fight us in Lirsautton, so perhaps there is hope yet if folks can keep momentum for in-space stuff going  :)
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Nissui on 21 Feb 2017, 08:24
Miz's posts on the IGS for responders to the Muttokon incident seems to have pushed some activity toward the OTSI Containment and Staging area. It was very quiet in-system over the last 3 days but I imagine that was partly to do with holding for further developments on the FE platform outbreak. Still bears potential for in-space antics.

I will not be able to return there until Friday at the earliest and most of 'what happens in EVE' occurs while I am at work. I will enjoy reading/posting about everyone else's heroics, certainly.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: scagga on 28 Feb 2017, 06:58
Rebuilding / expanding the minmatar rp forces would be helped along by a suitable enemy.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: xiongrey on 19 Apr 2017, 14:34
I do think that Miz's posts on the IGS have helped. I've seen a few Matari RPers respond to a few of the IGS posts on especially the Muttokon response including an Electus Matari poster and a few posters from the, I thought dead, Ushra'Khan.

What I think it really needs to kick start the Matari RP community would be more posters to the forums with interesting Lore tidbits sprinkled into their posts. From what I can tell, Minmatar RPers tend to post more often wen seeing other Minmatar posters. If more Electus Matari and Ushra'Khan members would post more, we could possibly see a resurgence.

Visibility is honestly what I think the community needs most.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Persephone Alleile on 20 Apr 2017, 08:12
Seems like there's lots of Minmatar RPers active these days but everyone is doing their own thing. I find Minmatar and the Republic to be one of the most interesting factions in EVE so I like seeing good Minmatar content.

Persephone is a quarter Sebeistor but she's disconnected from her roots on that side of the family, I've always been interested in exploring those ties at some point.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Mizhir on 20 Apr 2017, 10:47
Seems like there's lots of Minmatar RPers active these days but everyone is doing their own thing. I find Minmatar and the Republic to be one of the most interesting factions in EVE so I like seeing good Minmatar content.
I have noticed as well that there seem to be more Minmatar RPers around than last time I RPed. I will see if I can figure out something to connect people. Miz also got a background as a Mystic so that can be great to get the spiritual aspect of it. I have just no idea how to pull it off.   :s
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Havohej on 24 Apr 2017, 01:41
Quote from: Mizhir
I will see if I can figure out something to connect people.

I haven't been watching the IGS, since I haven't been playing and I was typically one of those "don't talk shit on IGS if you're not gonna be in space shooting/being shot" types...  my understanding is that with the free accounts/alpha clones, I'd have access to post even though I'm not playing at the moment, and that temptation may prove great enough that I choose to stay away altogether.

THAT SAID:

I don't know Miz very well as a character, or you as a player, but some things I always wanted to try that would not have fit well at all with the Havohej character and which you might (or might not) be able to cherry pick an idea or idea seed from:

Pseudo-science articles/reports of any type on a topic or topics relevant to the Minmatar as a whole.  For example, a sociological thing about the differences and interactions between the different Tribes, an article along the lines of "Integration of the Starkmanir/Nefantir: X Years Later", maybe criticizing shortcomings in the way the Republic government has maybe fallen short of those peoples' needs, offering solutions, who knows, whatever you want your character to say.  Whole thing was much too humanitarian for a terrorist like Havo, so I left the ideas on the shelf.  Expected things like that to come out of -EM-, but (to the best of my knowledge, having been away for a while) I don't think any of their more prolific writers ever got around to putting together another one of their fucking fabulous pdfs.  (Electus Matari pdfs were huge for me when I first started getting into Eve RP, and Eva, Killjoy Tseng, Arnulf Ogunkoya and all those cats were all top class people to interact with, even as enemies).

Charity events - pool some ISK together, get some shiny stuff and hold a big event where raffle tickets are sold, or a charity auction (though that's been done before, depending on timing there's nothing to say that only one person in the entire cluster can hold a charity auction).  The key is for it to be geared toward raising awareness of "Minmatar-focused thing that may or may not have anything to do with war - say, shitty water quality/living conditions in Molden Heath for example (which sounds right up a Shaman's alley to want to do something about)" and bring people together who otherwise might not ever find their characters in the same room to interact with each other.  I think it was Stefanie Sessorie (I didn't spell that right at all) who held the one I participated in where I apparently was in a bidding war against Silas of all people - which was a damn fun time, and fun interaction with several IC enemies including Silas.

Those are just two ideas, if I wanted to REALLY text wall I could go on a bit more.  One thing to keep in mind is, and again I'm not super familiar with you so for all I know you might already have quite a catalogue, but the thing is that there are so many really wide gaps in the PF that we have, don't be shy about making shit up.  If it sounds feasible to you, run with it, and people will choose to interact with it or not.  For instance, I used to have a fiction posted to a blog I used to have, that would more or less act as OOC background so that players interested enough to read all that in addition to the IGS text walls I'd post, would have more of an idea exactly what it was they were interacting with then deciding to accept Havohej as an enemy by engaging with him on the IGS and/or in space.  My worldbuilding was never on such a grandiose level as, say, Saede Riordan and all that she's done with her Origin star system, but I like to think it was clever and gritty enough to support Havo's "edginess".

Anyway, yeah...  I'd love to see a big resurgence of Minmatar RP and if I had both the time and a suitable machine, I'd love to offer a bad guy as per Scagga's suggestion.  With a suitable machine, I might even be interested in taking up a more moderate Minmatar character and exploring Arnulf's idea with him (and I wish you the best of luck, Arnulf!)...  I just can't right now :(  Hopefully something in one of those two thoughts offered can nudge your own creativity in a helpful direction!
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Utari Onzo on 24 Apr 2017, 05:30
The critical thing will be having a few big central characters willing to step up and sew all the disconnected minmatar RP together in some way. Effectively, rebuilding the brand of Minmatar as a factional RP entity, rather then a smattering of individuals.

It's that old cycle again, as we're seeing with the increase in Gallente activity of late as well.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Xepharious on 24 Apr 2017, 08:12
Quote from: Mizhir
I will see if I can figure out something to connect people.

  My worldbuilding was never on such a grandiose level as, say, Saede Riordan and all that she's done with her Origin star system,

Well now, that is a very good segue for me... One thing my experience with Origin has taught me is that if you want good strong tradition or a rich backstory for your world, you have to encourage it. Most of my work (up to and including Sunswept) was inspired in some way by pieces written by Saede and a lot more of it came from conversations OOC with ALXVP friends. 'Hey, why is this thing that way?' 'You know, never thought of it, let em work on it.'.... and a few days later I'd have an explanation written into Origin lore.

Related, Much of Origin's backstory is Matari, despite our status as being unaligned. While we do have ex-Amar loyal peoples, most of our fights/arguments are with those who follow the Amarr Imperial dogma. Many of our pilots though have been or still are favorable to the Matari cause though most feel a certain amount of disenfranchisement with the Republic's methods.

This brings me to an offer; as I start wrapping up the last three chapters of Sunswept, I really want to work with SFRIM to get that RP arch going that we started so long ago. Currently ALXVP is on horrible terms with SFRIM (despite being on fantastic OOC terms) and we are about to initiate an IC dialog to try to better that relationship. This represents a huge potential for RP for both of our members as well as a way for Origin politics to try to balance themselves more evenly between all four cultures. This is also coming on the wake of a massive immigration of over 12,000 refugees into Origin from Naupalis's(sp?) clutches. There are already a lot of reasons for us not to swiftly befriend such a stalwart champion of Amarr, not the least of which is Origin's strong Matari and Angel beginnings.  So... while I don't fancy Origin as that big a presence in the New Eden social structure, I'd like to think our participation in the RP community warrants some overall Matari misgivings toward the idea of us making any strides to befriend SFRIM. (And yes, Xeph is still 'stick in the mud' against the idea of it). It's not a STRONG Matari issue, but  maybe some of you could use it. I mean, how did we end up with all those refugees and not have them repatriated to Minmatar? How could people who see daily the atrocities of the Amarr be so willing to open talks with them? Does this mean that the Minmatar need a champion corp to send a delegate to argue against it?

I mean, Landfall festival is approaching...
http://www.alexylva-paradox.com/corporate-arcives/

I'd love any thoughts or ideas people have. Or if this sparks something for you let me know.

Ok, text wall done.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Jocca Quinn on 24 Apr 2017, 12:13
The critical thing will be having a few big central characters willing to step up and sew all the disconnected minmatar RP together in some way. Effectively, rebuilding the brand of Minmatar as a factional RP entity, rather then a smattering of individuals.

It's that old cycle again, as we're seeing with the increase in Gallente activity of late as well.

Khaprice is trying to drag some minnie's together into one OOC channel, chat to her.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Nissui on 24 Apr 2017, 12:15
Khaprice is good people. Plaswan.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Mizhir on 26 Apr 2017, 05:36
Sorry for not being able to respond sooner. I had something that came up in RL.

@Havohej
Thanks for the reply and the effort you put into it. The (pseudo) science articles doesn't really sound like something I am interested in. After doing the drifter autopsy I learned how much effort it takes to make something that is both scientific and fiction. And I already have many other things I want to write for EVE RP, including some background stuff on Miz and some worldbuilding. But maybe I can put that into good use later. However it did give me a great idea, so thanks, the idea is to make a post on the IGS about how it is for Miz to grow up outside the Republic and still feel connected in the tribal ways. It could hopefully spark some talk about the tribal ways without having to write too much stuff.

Regarding the charity auction, then there is already one running so we shouldn't oversaturate that. Maybe in a few months.

@Utari
I will not be able to contribute to factional aspect of the Minmatar RP. Miz does not support the war going on, and her home is the Federation. However I hope that I can be able to connect on the cultural / tribal aspect.

@Xepharious
One of the thing I really enjoy is the worldbuilding so hopefully I will be able to put it into good use. I must admit that I haven't really been following the Origin project but I know how much it means for Saede.

@Altarica
Cool :) I will try and poke them.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Xepharious on 27 Apr 2017, 07:09
@Xepharious
One of the thing I really enjoy is the worldbuilding so hopefully I will be able to put it into good use. I must admit that I haven't really been following the Origin project but I know how much it means for Saede.

It's funny, at it's core, it is world building, but to me its telling a good story. I've actually been very humbled by how many people have come in and made telling the Origin story their own. Currently, most of the writing done in or about Origin isn't actually done by Saede anymore. I think that is what kind of impresses me the most.
(Besides, Saede has their own novel, Sideways in Hyperspace, as a project now. Something I am VERY excited to continue reading as soon as I get these last two chapters of Sunswept done)
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Rinai Vero on 27 Apr 2017, 17:37
It's funny, at it's core, it is world building, but to me its telling a good story. I've actually been very humbled by how many people have come in and made telling the Origin story their own. Currently, most of the writing done in or about Origin isn't actually done by Saede anymore. I think that is what kind of impresses me the most.
(Besides, Saede has their own novel, Sideways in Hyperspace, as a project now. Something I am VERY excited to continue reading as soon as I get these last two chapters of Sunswept done)

I've actually been really curious about y'alls project for a while.  Since I've been away from EVE for most of the last two years I haven't been able to act on that curiosity though.  This summer I'm planning on doing some wormhole stuff with my alt (Aldris Vero) and I'd like to get in touch!
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Xepharious on 01 May 2017, 11:05
This summer I'm planning on doing some wormhole stuff with my alt (Aldris Vero) and I'd like to get in touch!

Please do! You don't even have to wait until the summer either, if you are curious or just want to chat about it toss me a PM or check out the website, it's got a lot of great Origin Lore and some decent reading if you are into that sort of thing.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Utari Onzo on 09 May 2017, 08:22
And so the circle of life activity turns and minmatar RP, atleast on the IGS, is having a bit of an uptick.

Or so I hope it seems!
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Jocca Quinn on 09 May 2017, 10:51
I think we can blame thank Elsebeth for that  :D
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Mizhir on 09 May 2017, 11:19
I had an interesting talk with Ayallah (Be Kind To Birds) and others about Minmatar RP and Lore, and the issues we face.

[spoiler]Be Kind To Birds [6:16 PM]
I know why minmatar Rp is in such bad shape
No one reads the fucking lore

Mike P [6:17 PM]
Yup

Be Kind To Birds [6:17 PM]
Absolutely no consistency at all to build a community around

Mike P [6:17 PM]
"I will rp based on assumptions and personal narratives"
???

Be Kind To Birds [6:17 PM]
Too real
A possible cause is that there are 8 sources on the cep
And two paragraphs about how the Republic government works
Lore in micro doses vs constant lore updates
Entirely the reason why there is a common and consistent understanding of some factions and a complete ignorance and fevered scrambling around others
Another possibility is the draw of the Mary Sue snowflake champion who had the worst upbringing pity contest to the slave background

Mike P [6:21 PM]
Oppression Olympics

Mizhir [6:22 PM]
Maybe someone can make a easily readable article on the important parts
Tbh I barely know anything about the Republic

Be Kind To Birds [6:23 PM]
It's super dissolved
I have about 6 pages of links referencing the Republic
But I haven't organized it at all
A lot is dead as well.  Many old news articles are dead link
It has helped me a lot but I don't think it's digestible
I'll have to put work into it I think.

Mizhir [6:24 PM]
Well for newer players it may just be too hard to digest

Aelisha Montenagre [6:25 PM]
TBH The Republic economy is likely to be quite interesting

Be Kind To Birds [6:25 PM]
People think the Republic is war mongering and doesn't take care of freed slaves because of oppression Olympic role players

Aelisha Montenagre [6:25 PM]
Materially backed (QUB) and the smallest economy managing to survive in an international clash of titans when you look at what the Federation, State and Empire pour into it.

Be Kind To Birds [6:26 PM]
Meanwhile shakor has created art programs, they are basically fully socialist with civic programs and they prioritize infrastructure

Este DeStirr [6:27 PM]
Seems appropriate to me that a community/tribal culture in a technological society would adopt socialism

Be Kind To Birds [6:27 PM]
The idea that you could house and feed the population of the state from nothing in just 138 years while spending everything on warships is just inane to me :expressionless:
They are very librarian and socialist
Really they are almost Mary Sue themselves in how it's written

Este DeStirr [6:27 PM]
Librarian! At least they are literate

Mizhir [6:28 PM]
Haha

Be Kind To Birds [6:28 PM]
But people still talk about growing up in slims and corruption
Autocorrect, I'm on my phone

Este DeStirr [6:28 PM]
Haha

Be Kind To Birds [6:28 PM]
It's like Rome or Greece tbh

Este DeStirr [6:28 PM]
Me too cannot slack at $dayjob

Mike P [6:29 PM]
Keep in mind that the gallente gave them shitloads of dosh

Be Kind To Birds [6:29 PM]
Very much like Rome with the position of sanmatat
No shit, they literally had nothing after the rebellion
Literally nothing to a multi-planatary multi regional nation
In less time than it took the US to rise to 300 mil

Mike P [6:30 PM]
I know dude, we never got a full figure on their givings

Be Kind To Birds [6:30 PM]
Because no number would be realistic

Mizhir [6:30 PM]
The Jews were also given a country after WW2 and that doesn't mean they are living in mud huts still

Be Kind To Birds [6:30 PM]
No number is realistic

Mike P [6:30 PM]
They also have a knack for making insanely strong ships

Be Kind To Birds [6:30 PM]
Yes Isreal and the Jews are a great example
And a much closer parallel irl than anyone else
People forget they are Scandinavian and African

Mike P [6:31 PM]
The matari are space jews confirmed

Mizhir [6:31 PM]
While I don't RP Miz as a Republic citizen I can certainly see the issues with ppl thinking it is savages

Be Kind To Birds [6:31 PM]
They just make the dumbest racist shit about 3rd world countries the center of their pity party I was a slave argument against amarr

Este DeStirr [6:31 PM]
Like the Jews, o would think that a communal-based society with post-oppression psychology would motivate them to focus on powerful defense and internal infrastructure

Be Kind To Birds [6:32 PM]
It literally killed minmatar Rp miz
Quitters quit for a reason

Mizhir [6:32 PM]
Hopefully I can help kickstart some of the cultural stuff.

Be Kind To Birds [6:33 PM]
I'm going to start writing a lore primer and post it in min ooc

Mizhir [6:33 PM]
That would be sweet

Be Kind To Birds [6:33 PM]
I really really don't think a lot of minmatar rpers know this stuff
I don't blame them, it's so few and far between
Like for example yesterday's article
Caldari title, 70% to 80% about Caldari
Tiny paragraph with important minmatar information at the end

Mizhir [6:34 PM]
Yeah and the Drifter stuff was mostly centered on Amarr

Be Kind To Birds [6:34 PM]
Of course we want to hear about rebuilding and hydrogen weapons
But it is a trend through all of post - FW lore

Mizhir [6:35 PM]
We could really use some more minmatar stuff from CCP

Be Kind To Birds [6:35 PM]
Barely any updates at all as to minmatar lore
Source came out and there STILL was no demographics of the Republic page
Meanwhile the others had theirs for years and were thousands of words long with sub topics

Ché Biko [6:35 PM]
I was wondering about that.

Be Kind To Birds [6:35 PM]
Just over and over forever no lore out there
It's nice because you have elbow room
It's shit because no one can find the 1 ultra important blurb about the Republic that defines the entire narrative
So we get literally years of people spreading false information and buying into it
I guess I bitched about it long enough without doing anything about it though
I'll start cataloging the lore I have saved and try to put it together
It's not like it's a lot, just scattered

Mizhir [6:38 PM]
I think many would appreciate that

Be Kind To Birds [6:38 PM]
No one seems to appreciate me doing it in character lol
Completely counter to the narrative
But Aya is a bitch about it too :kissing:
Anyway[/spoiler]

Tl;dr
Ayallah will hopefully be able to find time to put some of the lore togethe to an easy digestable guide for newer players. I am sure they appreciate any help :)
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Teinyhr on 09 May 2017, 13:08
I had an interesting talk with Ayallah (Be Kind To Birds) and others about Minmatar RP and Lore, and the issues we face.

[spoiler]Be Kind To Birds [6:16 PM]
I know why minmatar Rp is in such bad shape
No one reads the fucking lore

Mike P [6:17 PM]
Yup

Be Kind To Birds [6:17 PM]
Absolutely no consistency at all to build a community around

Mike P [6:17 PM]
"I will rp based on assumptions and personal narratives"
???

Be Kind To Birds [6:17 PM]
Too real
A possible cause is that there are 8 sources on the cep
And two paragraphs about how the Republic government works
Lore in micro doses vs constant lore updates
Entirely the reason why there is a common and consistent understanding of some factions and a complete ignorance and fevered scrambling around others
Another possibility is the draw of the Mary Sue snowflake champion who had the worst upbringing pity contest to the slave background

Mike P [6:21 PM]
Oppression Olympics

Mizhir [6:22 PM]
Maybe someone can make a easily readable article on the important parts
Tbh I barely know anything about the Republic

Be Kind To Birds [6:23 PM]
It's super dissolved
I have about 6 pages of links referencing the Republic
But I haven't organized it at all
A lot is dead as well.  Many old news articles are dead link
It has helped me a lot but I don't think it's digestible
I'll have to put work into it I think.

Mizhir [6:24 PM]
Well for newer players it may just be too hard to digest

Aelisha Montenagre [6:25 PM]
TBH The Republic economy is likely to be quite interesting

Be Kind To Birds [6:25 PM]
People think the Republic is war mongering and doesn't take care of freed slaves because of oppression Olympic role players

Aelisha Montenagre [6:25 PM]
Materially backed (QUB) and the smallest economy managing to survive in an international clash of titans when you look at what the Federation, State and Empire pour into it.

Be Kind To Birds [6:26 PM]
Meanwhile shakor has created art programs, they are basically fully socialist with civic programs and they prioritize infrastructure

Este DeStirr [6:27 PM]
Seems appropriate to me that a community/tribal culture in a technological society would adopt socialism

Be Kind To Birds [6:27 PM]
The idea that you could house and feed the population of the state from nothing in just 138 years while spending everything on warships is just inane to me :expressionless:
They are very librarian and socialist
Really they are almost Mary Sue themselves in how it's written

Este DeStirr [6:27 PM]
Librarian! At least they are literate

Mizhir [6:28 PM]
Haha

Be Kind To Birds [6:28 PM]
But people still talk about growing up in slims and corruption
Autocorrect, I'm on my phone

Este DeStirr [6:28 PM]
Haha

Be Kind To Birds [6:28 PM]
It's like Rome or Greece tbh

Este DeStirr [6:28 PM]
Me too cannot slack at $dayjob

Mike P [6:29 PM]
Keep in mind that the gallente gave them shitloads of dosh

Be Kind To Birds [6:29 PM]
Very much like Rome with the position of sanmatat
No shit, they literally had nothing after the rebellion
Literally nothing to a multi-planatary multi regional nation
In less time than it took the US to rise to 300 mil

Mike P [6:30 PM]
I know dude, we never got a full figure on their givings

Be Kind To Birds [6:30 PM]
Because no number would be realistic

Mizhir [6:30 PM]
The Jews were also given a country after WW2 and that doesn't mean they are living in mud huts still

Be Kind To Birds [6:30 PM]
No number is realistic

Mike P [6:30 PM]
They also have a knack for making insanely strong ships

Be Kind To Birds [6:30 PM]
Yes Isreal and the Jews are a great example
And a much closer parallel irl than anyone else
People forget they are Scandinavian and African

Mike P [6:31 PM]
The matari are space jews confirmed

Mizhir [6:31 PM]
While I don't RP Miz as a Republic citizen I can certainly see the issues with ppl thinking it is savages

Be Kind To Birds [6:31 PM]
They just make the dumbest racist shit about 3rd world countries the center of their pity party I was a slave argument against amarr

Este DeStirr [6:31 PM]
Like the Jews, o would think that a communal-based society with post-oppression psychology would motivate them to focus on powerful defense and internal infrastructure

Be Kind To Birds [6:32 PM]
It literally killed minmatar Rp miz
Quitters quit for a reason

Mizhir [6:32 PM]
Hopefully I can help kickstart some of the cultural stuff.

Be Kind To Birds [6:33 PM]
I'm going to start writing a lore primer and post it in min ooc

Mizhir [6:33 PM]
That would be sweet

Be Kind To Birds [6:33 PM]
I really really don't think a lot of minmatar rpers know this stuff
I don't blame them, it's so few and far between
Like for example yesterday's article
Caldari title, 70% to 80% about Caldari
Tiny paragraph with important minmatar information at the end

Mizhir [6:34 PM]
Yeah and the Drifter stuff was mostly centered on Amarr

Be Kind To Birds [6:34 PM]
Of course we want to hear about rebuilding and hydrogen weapons
But it is a trend through all of post - FW lore

Mizhir [6:35 PM]
We could really use some more minmatar stuff from CCP

Be Kind To Birds [6:35 PM]
Barely any updates at all as to minmatar lore
Source came out and there STILL was no demographics of the Republic page
Meanwhile the others had theirs for years and were thousands of words long with sub topics

Ché Biko [6:35 PM]
I was wondering about that.

Be Kind To Birds [6:35 PM]
Just over and over forever no lore out there
It's nice because you have elbow room
It's shit because no one can find the 1 ultra important blurb about the Republic that defines the entire narrative
So we get literally years of people spreading false information and buying into it
I guess I bitched about it long enough without doing anything about it though
I'll start cataloging the lore I have saved and try to put it together
It's not like it's a lot, just scattered

Mizhir [6:38 PM]
I think many would appreciate that

Be Kind To Birds [6:38 PM]
No one seems to appreciate me doing it in character lol
Completely counter to the narrative
But Aya is a bitch about it too :kissing:
Anyway[/spoiler]

Tl;dr
  • People know little about the lore - it is very scattered and hard to find
  • Many other RPers see the Republic as corrupt/warmongering savages - however the Republic is much more than that
  • CCP haven't contributed with much either - Most of the news items don't include the Republic that much
Ayallah will hopefully be able to find time to put some of the lore togethe to an easy digestable guide for newer players. I am sure they appreciate any help :)

Oh damn, it would be so nice to have some kind of centralized compendium about Minmatar lore, even I am quite often lost on Minnie lore and I'm a person who memorizes lore wikis for a hobby... Well, actually it's that I can only retain information that is absolutely no use in the real world like song lyrics and movie quotes, so there's that.

But yeah, both old and new roleplayers surely would give you their left kidney if you wanted it if you can get a good Minnie lore primer / link collection up somewhere.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Mizhir on 09 May 2017, 13:17
I think it will mostly include the history of the Republic and any other information about the Republic itself. The Lore and culture stuff is something way to diverse and open to truely catch in a lore primer. But that is where our creativity comes in :)
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Xepharious on 10 May 2017, 13:08
In response to a major theme if Mizhir's slack convo:

Lets all agree to promote those Minmatar RP threads which don't focus on the oppression and pity but rather on the growth and how they are forwarding the culture. It can be as easy as engaging with RPrs who chose this direction.

I've fallen into the pity party with Xeph too, albeit in the opposite direction of playing up how good he had it while technically a slave.

Idea: along with building a resource, lets outline some high functioning Minmatar cities/cultural centers which are doing well. This may give new RPrs at least an option other than the base line "oppression' narrative which the game mechanics have traditionally pushed.

What about some planet which has an idealic, if a little simple, tribal culture. Make the planet enjoyable, a haven, something worth defending where most of the people there haven't been heavily scarred by the wars or previous slavery. Maybe they were granted the land by some [considered insane] Amar lord who went batty just before the planet was recaptured and willed all lands to his slaves who he treated well. 

I'm just tossing out ideas, I realize this sounds a little pushed, but some of us have more experience in what is possible (read, have spent more of our lives buried in EvE) and if we use the player fiction to establish at least another option then newer RPers may be willing to choose that option over 'omg, look at how scarred I am'

(<.< and no, I'm not exactly volunteering to write something.... I'm still waiting for people to realize how many PF liberties I took in Sunswept and quest after my blood and salt...)
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Teinyhr on 10 May 2017, 15:27
^ Just so happens my fleshing out my character's clan deals entirely with rebuilding society and recovering what was lost, if I'd just get around to writing the damn thing... At least I guess I have one more reason to put more effort into it.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Casiella on 10 May 2017, 20:59
I haven't been roleplaying in months. Were I not so bad at hauling, I'd roll up a Thukker freighter pilot. 
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Xepharious on 11 May 2017, 07:08
Were I not so bad at hauling, I'd roll up a Thukker freighter pilot.

I didn't realize that being a freighter pilot was an RP requirement... but now that I think of it, I suddenly realize why everyone else seems to have so much more consistent time for RP... they ain't shootin' someone at any given moment! (head canon)

(Borrowing from a YouTube comment)
╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ FLIP THAT TABLE.
┻━┻ ︵ ヽ(°□°ヽ) FLIP THIS TABLE.
┻━┻ ︵ \( °□° )/ ︵ ┻━┻ FLIP ALL THE TABLES
ಠ_ಠ Son.
ಠ__ಠ Put.
ಠ___ಠ The tables.
ಠ____ಠ Back!
ಠ_____ಠ NOW! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ┳━┳ ┳━┳ ┳━┳
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Ché Biko on 11 May 2017, 09:06
Damn, Xeph is onto me...
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Casiella on 11 May 2017, 09:36
I didn't mean it's a requirement. I meant that it's an interesting archetype to me, but I've found that (short of maybe joining something like Push Industries) I end up making poor choices in my hauling.

Regardless, I'm out in nullsec these days (Casiella is relegated mostly to being my Jita alt) and thinking about how best to integrate RP into that, beyond just making a living and fending off PL.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Ayallah on 11 May 2017, 22:00
Lets all agree to promote those Minmatar RP threads which don't focus on the oppression and pity but rather on the growth and how they are forwarding the culture. It can be as easy as engaging with RPrs who chose this direction.

I've fallen into the pity party with Xeph too, albeit in the opposite direction of playing up how good he had it while technically a slave.

Idea: along with building a resource, lets outline some high functioning Minmatar cities/cultural centers which are doing well. This may give new RPrs at least an option other than the base line "oppression' narrative which the game mechanics have traditionally pushed.

What about some planet which has an idealic, if a little simple, tribal culture. Make the planet enjoyable, a haven, something worth defending where most of the people there haven't been heavily scarred by the wars or previous slavery. Maybe they were granted the land by some [considered insane] Amar lord who went batty just before the planet was recaptured and willed all lands to his slaves who he treated well. 

I'm just tossing out ideas, I realize this sounds a little pushed, but some of us have more experience in what is possible (read, have spent more of our lives buried in EvE) and if we use the player fiction to establish at least another option then newer RPers may be willing to choose that option over 'omg, look at how scarred I am'

At a certain point about there was a kind of a surge of that.  Samira famously portrayed a slave who preferred slavery to freedom, Elsebeth famously portrayed a minmatar who came from a wealthy family and Ava/khalisa defined an entire period of time with her rich cultural rp and worldbuilding.  It was also a time of a lot of 'pirate' and republic haters, (IC and or OOC,) including many who portrayed it the best. 

I say that because while it is always good to promote things, having the contrast of people who stood against them is where RP happened.  When it came to oppression there were some who portrayed it with a passion and fervor to the point that everyone became sick.  Just as others portrayed living in the republic so well everyone became interested.   

Both sides are valuable in balance, but they need to be based in the same story.  At the time they were not.  There is room for every play style and portrayal but they both need to be grounded in accuracy. 

Take for instance the US, you can easily write about a poor upbringing or being a heir to billions.  We know both exist side by side and that contrast can be used as a narrative tool to make some truly compelling stories out of what would be simple ones.

It does NOT work when one side insists that there are no rich and the other is trying to insist that the culture is dead.   We need a common framework, not just to only promote the positive tbh.  A common story to tell.  A common universe to share. 
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Pieter Tuulinen on 12 May 2017, 14:44
Yeah, it really hurts that the demographic data isn't there. There's nothing concrete to point at beyond the general impression of fractured politics, crap infrastructure and refugee camps. Basically an entire section of space that resembles a gypsy campsite (and not the picturesque sort with the horse drawn wagons).

But then, you have to remember some of the concrete achievements, the size of the warmachine constructed and maintained and so on, and so on. I think the problem is that there's ANOTHER impression that, basically, the Gallente parachuted in and helped them build up and dumped all this money into their system, and they basically remained in squalor as they built battleships - totally ignoring the fact that Somali Pirates can't build battleships, so the Matari CAN'T have a society like that...
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Arnulf Ogunkoya on 12 May 2017, 16:04
I think the problem is that people who are used to life in one country (or state) on one world have difficulty getting the diversity of societies that exist on multiple worlds in multiple solar systems. Plus stations and various deep space colonies and outposts. Plus ship based societies like the Thukker.

This is possibly related to the pulp SF meme of single environment planets.

Of course it is possible for Minmatar society to encompass thriving communities and squalid refugee camps and a diaspora that is more Minmatar than the people back on Pator (on a tangent I wonder what the Matari equivalent of green beer is). But for anyone that hasn't experienced the breadth of lives lived on this world it is, perhaps, a strain to accept that emotionally as well as intellectually.

Also. This game is often about conflicting ideas. So possibly accepting an "opposing" idea is true can be a challenge.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Ayallah on 14 May 2017, 22:28
Yeah, it really hurts that the demographic data isn't there. There's nothing concrete to point at beyond the general impression of fractured politics, crap infrastructure and refugee camps. Basically an entire section of space that resembles a gypsy campsite (and not the picturesque sort with the horse drawn wagons).

But then, you have to remember some of the concrete achievements, the size of the warmachine constructed and maintained and so on, and so on. I think the problem is that there's ANOTHER impression that, basically, the Gallente parachuted in and helped them build up and dumped all this money into their system, and they basically remained in squalor as they built battleships - totally ignoring the fact that Somali Pirates can't build battleships, so the Matari CAN'T have a society like that...
Somalia is a terrible example and is exactly the kind of portrayal that flat out does not work.  It is almost exclusively based on lore about skarkon and other specific pirate shitholes like Starkmanir Prime.  Again, perpetuated by mostly those trying to out-edge.  Not entirely but certainly mostly.

A far, far better example is Wirtschaftswunder and or Israel. The Federations position in those examples is much easier to picture as is how far they have come now. They are not direct examples obviously (they didn't even happen in space) but if you are thinking along THOSE lines you will be much less surprised when you read about Matari art subsidies and falling crime rates etc.

I feel like I always have to point it out but:

     

A society that can accomplish all of those things does not worry about purifying water you fucks.  You can probably purify water with a 5quantum laser in YCwhatever. This is the future. Education can be distributed today via a cell phone app but people think that in the Republic no one has one.

The idea that all of these things are there but everyone lives in favelas and can't get clean water is frankly fucking stupid as hell.  Sure, there are always poor and rich areas but there are poor and rich areas everywhere.  I have yet to see any lore in all my searching that puts the republic as the most income-disparate of the nations. 

I also have yet to see any lore that paints the republic as badly as the pity-olympic gold medalist roleplayers have.  Even the most biting examples in lore I have found have always been confined examples.

Of course, we have so little lore to go on and what we have is so dissociated that actually painting a cohesive picture is really difficult.

The investment people get into their fictional lives mean that trying to enforce a cohesive view often causes its own kind of problems. 

Anyway, it is all something that Minmatar rp'ers are aware of these days, people just need to write more stuff tbh.  I feel like a goon in saying so but the Narrative is the problem, not the actual salient points anyone ever brings to the table.

TL;DR: The Republic isn't that bad at all, roleplay about tattoos more.  Everyone should have like 80 fucking tattoos and they should all mean something

Source on all this is just FOUR GODDAMN LINES IN EVE SOURCE That's right, four fucking piece of shit lines about the demographics and a date of the rebellion.  fuck you ccp if you are reading this, 12 years to get four lines of information we can extrapolate shit from.  ...just fuck you

FOUR GODDAMN LINES! :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

edit: also this isn't really directed at you pieter, you just got me to vent is all ))
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Mizhir on 15 May 2017, 02:55
Well chirped Ayallah. Certainly some great points you brought up.

Education can be distributed today via a cell phone app but people think that in the Republic no one has one.
This actually made me think about something. I got family (distant uncles/auntsand such) in India that lives in remote rural areas. Not talking about the areas that tourists see but the really remote places. My mum (Scandinavian)is probably the only white person some of these people have seen in person. It may be a rather primitive area compared so the western world, but the Indian government was actually pretty smart. Rather than putting up landline phones they just put up cellphone masts. It was cheaper, easier and the next step in the infrastructure. And cellphones can be purchased for next to no money there. So people can easily acquire one.

Similary I can imagine the Republic skipping some steps in infrastructure and may atually have a pretty decent and well updated infrastructure because rather than keep expanding on old and outdated systems they just build something new.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Ayallah on 15 May 2017, 03:00
There is actually a lore bit about that somewhere, I will have to hunt it down.

But basically it says that the Republic actually has more advanced infrastructure on average than the Federation because it was bought new. and they already picked the cheaper, more efficient options.  Like your cell tower story.   I think maybe it was in a blurb about holo viewers or something like that.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Elmund Egivand on 15 May 2017, 03:43
I also like to point out that the kind of engineering brilliance that allowed for battleships to handle like battlecruisers and cruisers acting like big frigates must have also bled down into the civilian sector. I would expect alot of their civvy stuff in the larger population centres to be built of light materials that are way too durable than they have any right to be due to advances in those fields that allowed them to design their starships the way I described. Namely, material science, mechanical engineering and nanotech.

If anything, they ought to be leaders in these fields.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Ayallah on 15 May 2017, 04:16
Canonically, prior to the Day of Darkness Minmatar engineering was da bes
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Jocca Quinn on 15 May 2017, 04:40
Just want to say, much respect for Ayallah here.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Karmilla Strife on 15 May 2017, 06:59
Awesome response Ayallah. I've been very frustrated by the portrayal of the Republic as some decrepit refugee camp with a dictator and barely functioning fleet held together by duct tape. Every one of the nations is going to have backwaters like Skarkon. One reason I play my Minmatar character Tabor as positive as I do, is to try to counter the popular Minmatar theme of "look how bad we've got it!" I should probably play him more rather than comment from the sidelines.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Teinyhr on 15 May 2017, 08:45
+1 to Ayallah. Pretty much how I feel about the issues too.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Xepharious on 15 May 2017, 09:43
Ayallah, thank you for both of your posts. I actually do agree with you on just about all of that, well, really all of it I guess. I came back to EVE just after Ava left so I didn't get to really play in the richer world that I saw before I left.

people just need to write more stuff tbh. 

Well... actually, I was kinda planning to take a part of my Sunswept narrative out of Origin for the next novel. I don't really know what it's going to look like as a whole but I'd be happy to spend some time/pages/creativity painting out the Republic a bit more. I'll need some strong reference sources ('cause, as you pointed out so vigorously, the Source doesn't cut it). Would you be interested when I get around to it? I like your pragmatic and balanced view and I'd love to put our heads together and try to paint out this picture.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Ayallah on 15 May 2017, 10:56
I am trying to make a sort of easy to reference place.  Inspired by Samira doing the same a few years ago when she put in a lot of work on the wiki I went through and gathered up every mention of minmatar I could.  Sadly a lot is dead links now but I don't mind helping as best I can if you have questions. 

Also I kind of come off strong, I don't want people to think they can't play poverty or hardship or I will come rage at them IC, there certainly is a place for it.  For example the slaves free'd by the elder fleet likely had a much harder time re-integrating due to the unexpected nature of their arrival and the scattered and disparate republic of the time.   But by contrast, those who were free'd during the emancipation by empress Jamyl experienced more hardship in the Empire and then had a strong social service net to use once they did make it to the Republic.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Samira Kernher on 15 May 2017, 15:39
I agree with most of this. While I played Samira as going through slums, that was a factor I attribute to being an immigrant rather than something global for the Republic. At the same time I've RPed that there is a significant amount of social services on tribal lines (inspired by a story CCP Eterne wrote). Certainly more than either the Empire (purely charity-based unless you sell yourself into slavery) or the State (completely casting out the unemployed). Good social services doesn't mean you don't have to deal with living in a rough or cramped neighborhood, mind, but it does mean you'll get food and medical coverage and won't be forced out onto the streets.

As for the military, the fleet is smaller than both the Empire and the Federation, there's a post on the EVE Fiction forum where Falcon rates them. I can't speak for the rest of the military though, so you might be right if you're counting all active service personnel.

The main disagreement we've had is in the Emancipation. While Republic social services are pretty good, the sheer volume did severely tax the Republic's services and caused a huge economic and societal mess, as described by basically everything written about it. But that mess is something that would have happened in any nation because a huge wave of immigrants is always going to tax resources.

There is actually a lore bit about that somewhere, I will have to hunt it down.

But basically it says that the Republic actually has more advanced infrastructure on average than the Federation because it was bought new. and they already picked the cheaper, more efficient options.  Like your cell tower story.   I think maybe it was in a blurb about holo viewers or something like that.

It's from the HoloVision article.

http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=HoloVision#Distribution
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Nissui on 15 May 2017, 16:35
^ One of the reasons I like boosting Urban Management and Six Kin when RP provides the opportunity.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Ayallah on 15 May 2017, 21:02
As for the military, the fleet is smaller than both the Empire and the Federation, there's a post on the EVE Fiction forum where Falcon rates them. I can't speak for the rest of the military though, so you might be right if you're counting all active service personnel.
It was based on some argument with falcon in #lore, it is quite likely I misremembered it or that he was talking about total military personnel. It is inconsequential really except to demonstrate that its military is still larger than the State's (which has an equivalent population) and less technologically sophisticated than the Federation's but more so than the Empire's.

The main disagreement we've had is in the Emancipation. While Republic social services are pretty good, the sheer volume did severely tax the Republic's services and caused a huge economic and societal mess, as described by basically everything written about it. But that mess is something that would have happened in any nation because a huge wave of immigrants is always going to tax resources.
I disagree in that conclusion personally.

https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/empress-jamyl-i-makes-historic-emancipation-announcement/

The first article, it focuses completely on the impact on The Empire of the loss of workforce and limited rioting amongst slave populations.

Follows is the life after emancipation series which details the social systems that were created to manage the released slaves.  All the hardships stem from imperial holders not giving adequate help to the free'd slaves, not anything on behalf of the republic that cannot be attributed to surprise.

https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/life-after-emancipation-the-road-home-1/
Quote
”We thought life would get better at first,” says Onyeka, ‘But it only got worse. We saved what we could, but it was months before we had enough for a place on a shuttle.” At the expense of reduced power to the family of eight’s single room apartment, they saved enough to send Onyeka to the Republic to begin a new life.
Got worse While they were stuck in the Empire

https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/life-after-emancipation-refuge-and-resettlement-1/

The SoE step in and assist, opening space as well as providing transport.

https://community.testeveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/life-after-emancipation-adaptation-and-adjustment/

Details the social system waiting for them in the republic.

https://community.testeveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/life-after-emancipation-citizenship/

Finishing the series, speaking about the hardships of change and some information about the social system.


Based on this, and paying close attention to the dates, I assert that the main hardships those who were freed felt were while they were in the Empire, unable to afford to leave and not supported by the holders who freed them for the most part.  Once they got to the Republic they had a well developed, if at first ill-prepared system waiting for them.  That three-day burst of overwhelming was a result of the SoE stepping in and transporting people en-mass.  But the civil systems were waiting for them regardless. 

That year of hardships was because the Empire just freed them and then did nothing until iirc Jamyl stepped in and glassed some holds.

What you are remembering is probably this article: https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/many-starkmanir-refugees-finding-new-life-difficult/

This is in sharp contrast to the life after emancipation series and takes place just before it.  It also is about the starkmanir exclusively.  It is really odd to think of the insane difference between the two but I attribute that to two things: the SoE was not involved and they had no tribe in the republic to assist them.  Highlighting the second it could be considered a problem with the tribal structure.  With no tribe to help them perhaps the social systems were not available to them like they were just months later. 

Also the Starkmanir had been freed for quite a long time at that point, they are also supposed to numerically insignificant even today almost a decade later.  To me that pushes my perspective to 'no tribe, no help' which is more akin to the state than the federation but it's honestly hard to say. 

Why a small number of people had such a difficult time but a much larger group just after had an easy one is hard to say.  Additionally, there are a LOT of nefantir in the Republic.  More than were emancipated and a hell of a lot more than the starkmanir.  Emancipated was in the 700mil range, starkmanir was supposed to be in the thousands ...yet the nefantir numbered in the hundreds of billions.

a few thousand had a hard time, 700 million were portrayed as having a good social system once they got to the republic and almost five hundred billion were completely unmentioned. Many of those nefantar returned with the starkmanir as well. it was supposed to have taken place at near the same time.  I assume that the 500 billion trickled in over the intervening years though.  Also they had their own money and resources and were not as slaves so that probably contributed.

https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/sanmatar-shakor-affirms-starkmanir-nefantar-tribal-chiefs/

When they both got chiefs years later is really the only snapshot I could find.  Also this
Quote
Nefantar, today, face many challenges. Their ancestral lands, unlike that of the Thukker and Starkmanir on Matar held in trust, had no accommodation for the Nefantar. Court cases, land disputes, and religious tensions have made it difficult for the Nefantar refugees and the integration of the tribe with the Republic
...which I think points to the harships being Tribal political in nature rather than a lack of infrastructure. Well, infrastructure than belonged to the nefantir anyway.
 
 :psyccp: is all I can say.  How the protected people in an insignificant number had a hard time idfk.  I think they were just used as an example of the hardships that can be felt by those returning and is ..well it should have been written as hardships the nefantir face imo but it is PF so we have to reconcile.

Here is more confusion:
http://eve.wikia.com/wiki/Nefantar_Tribe
http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=Nefantar
http://eve.wikia.com/wiki/Starkmanir_Tribe
http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=Starkmanir#cite_note-e-5

Note the contrast between all these sources. Also check out the series on the religious backlash the nefantar/ammatar faced after defection.   I don't have the time now to hunt down all the dead links but from what I can piece together is this:

Those freed in emancipation experienced hardships in the empire but were well taken care of once they arrived in the Republic.

The Starkmanir were protected but experienced hardships possibly due to not having a chief or resources available at the time.  They faced religious persecution.

The Nefantar returned in much better shape, they had resources to do so maybe?  But they faced a lot of religious persecution as they brought with them the Imperial Rite in quantity.

Where those social systems that assisted the emancipated went and came from is anyone's guess but I am personally attributing it to Tribal politics/ the fact that the Nefantar had to make it more on their own?  Perhaps the Starkmanir did as well.  Room for debate I think but also room to bring inter-tribal politics and the hardships of the transition from the first republic to the new tribal republic in. 

The new Tribal republic with the new chiefs was after all this so presumably those hardships have been dealt with now that the starkmanir and nefantar have representative chiefs.  God only knows though.


It's from the HoloVision article.
Yep, that's the one I remember.  Thank you ))

http://wiki.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?title=HoloVision#Distribution
[/quote]
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Samira Kernher on 16 May 2017, 01:35
The articles I think to are:

https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/in-the-wake-of-jarek-religion-continues-to-be-contentious-issue-1/
(Evidence of clear social unrest between different groups of immigrants. Anywhere where there are Amarr faithful, there is religious conflict, particularly when both sides are immigrants)

https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/food-supplies-to-republic-at-risk-according-to-aidonis-medical-1/
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/gallente-medical-charity-under-pressure-over-salvation-crusade/
(Makes the case that Republic-based sources are possibly biased (Aidonis Medical could be the ones in the wrong, of course) and there might be pressure to refuse humanitarian aid to Amarr faithful)

https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/minmatar-crime-lord-escapes-maximum-security-prison/
(Evidence of a "great increase in arrests" following the emancipation)

https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/sanmatar-shakor-calls-for-assembly-of-the-seven-tribes/
("... domestic strain stemming from the rising population ...")


I do agree that the worst of the economic problems was likely faced by the Nefantar and Starkmanir in light of there being no tribal infrastructure existing for them. Other tribes most certainly fared better overall, but religious conflicts still caused issues in these cases. Most often conflicts between faithful and non-faithful immigrants, who the Republic refused to segregate.

There is domestic strain and increases in crime and arrests, but that is again something I attribute to high immigration numbers and not as a condemnation of the Republic itself.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Xepharious on 16 May 2017, 11:05
Thank you both, so very very much, for summarizing those links. What a wealth of resources!
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Ayallah on 16 May 2017, 16:19
I will have to hunt down the article regarding new immigration to the republic increasing, it could be this surge is from non-freed slaves and then it would stand to reason they didn't get the support of the social system.  The actual emancipated are cared for but it seems everyone else fell by the wayside at least in some instances. In the case of the adonis medical articles, they are immigrants from the federation, which saw more Matari leave it for the republic after the one day war and has presumably had a net migration to the republic since.

Quote
other volunteers working in the Republic since early YC110, when 'transit camps' were set up by the government on major Minmatar planets to temporarily accommodate increasing numbers of Minmatar arriving from the Gallente Federation.

Keep in mind also that at this point the republic effectively had no government.  Just the remains of what karin left and the sanmatar.

the articles you linked seem to all point not to the emancipated,  it was prior to the majority of emancipated being transported by the SoE,  i.e. they are normal immigrants in this case from the great wildlands or the federation.  I guess this is the immigration waves post-shakor.  It is a shame we never got demographics PRIOR so we could truly see how many thukker migrated.

Quote
According to the spokesman the official statuses of the Thukker, Starkmanir and Nefantar tribes have been the main stumbling blocks on the path to that goal, presenting a number of issues which Shakor had been hoping to resolve before making an announcement. Increasing political pressure and domestic strain stemming from the rising population are understood to have forced Sanmatar Shakor's hand, leading to today's parliamentary address.

All these groups are post-one day war and pre-emancipation act.  I am guessing the infrastructure just was not in place and the remains of the first republic just were not up to the task. 

Most of the Nefantar and Thukker, overwhelmingly most, were not slaves.  The Starkmanir being included again is odd to me but I suppose it just points to the "protected status" being more of an ambition, at least until the Tribal Order got on its feet.

Also the religious persecution in the Republic I think is too downplayed by a lot of people, ..including myself.  They do accept it but there have been more than one instance of violent crime and discrimination against those who keep their faith.

There is another article too somewhere about how Tribal culture and tradition is failing to launch in a way because of how much of it was destroyed, apathy among Matari, and the influence of the imperial rite and its hybrids.

Sorry, I wrote this over the entire day of and on so it is really scatterbrained.  many sorries.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Karmilla Strife on 16 May 2017, 16:57
I think one thing that really stuck with me when I was playing my Minmatar character more than Karmilla was going to the event actor event where the 7 tribal representatives all got together. The Nefantar and Starkmanir representatives were clearly part of the Amarrian Religion. Local was going crazy, lots of people were upset, but every one of the other tribal representatives (and I think maybe Shakor, it's been a while and I need to find logs in 9 years of local chat logs) stood with the Nefantar and Starkmanir reps. So at least at the official government level there is freedom of religion and those tribes (and others) can be Amarr worshipers, but that certainly doesn't mean there is conflict at the community level (re: Abel Jarek)

I'm not so sure there is universal religious persecution in the Republic. Even the articles about Abel Jarek mention that opposition is often strongest from other recently freed slaves. I know Tabor always thought Jarek was killed because he was a bad neighbor who didn't respect the local elders, his faith was an afterthought.
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Ayallah on 16 May 2017, 17:42
Yes, at the top level there is freedom of religion.  Freedom of religion is normal in the republic but prejudice is there so that freedom is not exactly 100%

Also @samira, I found these articles today about immigrants going from the republic to the federation during the bad times of the first republic.  They follow a similar trend to the ones you posted about immigration problems in the Republic much later, after the day of darkness.
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/matari-gallente-exodus-may-be-underway-new-study-says/
https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/federation-seeks-solutions-to-immigrant-influx/
 
Title: Re: State of Minmatar RP
Post by: Mizhir on 17 May 2017, 06:41
Seems like there have been some good Minmatar related threads popping up lately. I am quite happy about that :D