Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => Player Driven Content => Topic started by: Call Kryyval on 12 Feb 2016, 19:36
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Many agree but the lack of communication between both games are lacking yet we share the same chat system. If you wish to provide assistance/counter... Let's work together please provide a channel to contact and pass the word! Max Singularity intends to render support so don't let him be the only one!
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The remaining Dust 514 community has shifted into a Discord Channel which the developers and GM's (Rattati, Frame, Archduke, etc) occasionally visit every now and then.
I'll see if I can get the link to it.
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Who is this 'many'?
I think it's about time Dust shuts down and then be moved somewhere that *isn't* the PS3. I still would very much like to play a FPS set in the Eve Universe. Just not Dust and not on a PS3.
Can we get something like Planetside 2 except with the planet hopping facilitated by capsuleers, who also drops tanks and guns and exotic dancers from high orbit to support the mercs?
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Who is this 'many'?
I think it's about time Dust shuts down and then be moved somewhere that *isn't* the PS3. I still would very much like to play a FPS set in the Eve Universe. Just not Dust and not on a PS3.
Can we get something like Planetside 2 except with the planet hopping facilitated by capsuleers, who also drops tanks and guns and exotic dancers from high orbit to support the mercs?
We are moving to PC, but not under the name DUST. There is a good bit trying to campaign for EVE: Phoenix but you never know.
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Phoenix would be pretty good for a name.
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Who is this 'many'?
I think it's about time Dust shuts down and then be moved somewhere that *isn't* the PS3. I still would very much like to play a FPS set in the Eve Universe. Just not Dust and not on a PS3.
Can we get something like Planetside 2 except with the planet hopping facilitated by capsuleers, who also drops tanks and guns and exotic dancers from high orbit to support the mercs?
Basically what is happening and you'll find that literally no one wants the game to be restricted to the PS3 with all of its technical limitations.
That said as much as I would like a more polished game I certainly don't want to rely on capsuleers to access aspects of it like vehicles or infrastructure.
Sure the link to EVE and capacity for pilots to do that would be cool but I don't see why we shouldn't have that capacity to do this ourselves through a more refined warbarge system.
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Basically what is happening and you'll find that literally no one wants the game to be restricted to the PS3 with all of its technical limitations.
This is wishful thinking but I am hoping for large scale maps as in entire planets, like EVE has entire systems of space.
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Basically what is happening and you'll find that literally no one wants the game to be restricted to the PS3 with all of its technical limitations.
This is wishful thinking but I am hoping for large scale maps as in entire planets, like EVE has entire systems of space.
Nifty notion, but please to bear in mind that most Eve systems are full of a stupendous amount of not much.
I'd be more enthused about an implementation of the original plan: use PI complexes as battlegrounds, and configure the battlefield to match local geography.
Fights over Cloud City-style gas giant harvesting facilities: DO WANT. Especially if we get to set charges on the suspension/antigrav/whatever units and watch entire harvesting arrays plunge into the swirling clouds below, freighted with screaming human cargo ...
... ah. The dreams that first brought me to DUST.
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I can emphatically say Planetside 2 is not something I'd like to see applied to DUST.
For all the big maps, for the most part action only happens in one or two places, and tends to follow the same old routine as each faction enters its healthiest timezone on a given server for a zerg rush, or counter zerg. It wasn't the most compelling game play, but an open world single player option would be cool?
I'd rather DUSTers fight over infrastructure I care about in EvE and make me do something about it (like, I don't know, pay a bunch of DUSTers a load of money to protect my stuff?)
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There will never be high stakes gameplay between different game servers that will allow for someone not on your same game (eve or dust Jr) to influence the other in a major way. The butthurt would be too much for either eve or dust people losing major assets without being able to do anything about it. At most you'll get bonuses to help capture facilities or kill assists, or help with timers, etc who knows.
I think it's too much of a tall order for them to really integrate short-round respawn gameplay with long term eve infrastructure.
I think the IP is big enough among the trillions of new eden citizens and thousands of planets, to have big important gameplay for the fps people that only need tangentially hit the eve crowd.
For example: FPS boarding operations as you storm inside a station or a battleship to fight the crew and scuttle the ship? Hell of awesome FPS combat. Impossible to do with the eve player ships as battleships are exploding in 30 seconds, right?
Planetside commando raids by Matari to free slaves from ebil Amarr? Pew pew and escort to freedom dropship mission? Sign me up.
Take just about any EVE mission with rescuing or tracking down or any facility and you've got a great FPS combat scenario.
Shelf-life for -any- FPS it too short to spend all this time integrating with EVE when people will stop playing it in a year. Better to do a -KICK ASS- single player/squad combat story game with fantastic visuals and great action and a good deathmatch multiplayer component, than to try Dust 2.0 and fail miserably again.
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There will never be high stakes gameplay between different game servers that will allow for someone not on your same game (eve or dust Jr) to influence the other in a major way. The butthurt would be too much for either eve or dust people losing major assets without being able to do anything about it. At most you'll get bonuses to help capture facilities or kill assists, or help with timers, etc who knows.
I think it's too much of a tall order for them to really integrate short-round respawn gameplay with long term eve infrastructure.
I think the IP is big enough among the trillions of new eden citizens and thousands of planets, to have big important gameplay for the fps people that only need tangentially hit the eve crowd.
For example: FPS boarding operations as you storm inside a station or a battleship to fight the crew and scuttle the ship? Hell of awesome FPS combat. Impossible to do with the eve player ships as battleships are exploding in 30 seconds, right?
Planetside commando raids by Matari to free slaves from ebil Amarr? Pew pew and escort to freedom dropship mission? Sign me up.
Take just about any EVE mission with rescuing or tracking down or any facility and you've got a great FPS combat scenario.
Shelf-life for -any- FPS it too short to spend all this time integrating with EVE when people will stop playing it in a year. Better to do a -KICK ASS- single player/squad combat story game with fantastic visuals and great action and a good deathmatch multiplayer component, than to try Dust 2.0 and fail miserably again.
To some degree you are right that there can't really be too many high stakes instances where Dust and EVE interact because as you say the amount of complaints from those who just lost a ship to a boarding would be too intense.
That said there are other options for interaction between the two games through PI, resource harvesting, perhaps even PvE (also FW wise but we know/have told the devs the system in place for Dust and how it affects EVE isn't a positive one).
The only thing a really dispute is the comment about the shelf life of an FPS. Dust doesn't exactly have the largest player base, admittedly neither does EVE, a large proportion of those players have been playing 2-3 years even in Dusts half finished shape.
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The only thing a really dispute is the comment about the shelf life of an FPS. Dust doesn't exactly have the largest player base, admittedly neither does EVE, a large proportion of those players have been playing 2-3 years even in Dusts half finished shape.
Yea it's an extremely tough market they are aiming for, and I don't envy them. They are going to have to have a laser focus for the design of the whole thing and find their niche.
They have to look at how much they are investing and what the return is going to be. I don't think they ever released Dust numbers but from what I hear they spent millions in production and R&D and didn't make anything profit-wise.
FPS market is a whole other ballgame with a more fickle audience than the strategy/space/sim/sci fi market. You can't get away with shitty graphics and development that people who play strategy games and sims let slide. You've got to compete with the big boys spending 30-40-50 $million on high production value, huge studio mass market games with all the associated eye candy.
The FPS audience sort of expects those high value graphics and production content as par for the course now. Look at any of the upcoming crop of FPS games for PC, that's what they have to aim for, then ask yourself if CCP has the money to go up against the Deus Exes, Rainbow 6x, Dooms of the FPS world.
If I were them and dead-set on an FPS I'd take my IP over to one of the big shops and license the hell out of it and let people who do that particular type of game have a go, spend a ton of money on a wide-release "AAA" shooter and open up the IP at least to a wide audience.
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I am doubting this, but I know one thing for sure: I want some MTAC love in the New Game. Or, some form of mechs. But again, I doubt this, as it is CCP.
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If I were them and dead-set on an FPS I'd take my IP over to one of the big shops and license the hell out of it and let people who do that particular type of game have a go, spend a ton of money on a wide-release "AAA" shooter and open up the IP at least to a wide audience.
Call of Duty: Advanced Modern Space Dust Warfare Black Ops 514?
Single player campaign consists of a Gallentean named Ramirez defending freedom against Russian Caldari, Arabic Amarrian, and African Minmatar terrorists.
Edit: Just to add, I think the major issue with Dust for me was that it felt like it had no idea what kind of FPS it wanted to be.
The 16v16 maps usually ended up with either tanks and dropships dominating the open or getting into terrible CQC situations where all the objectives had easy chokepoints that would end up in the spamming of grenades and heavy suits.
If they wanted vehicle gameplay then that's better suited for 32v32 or 64v64 style maps where you can at least be assured there would be some people out there able to spawn in with some anti-tank or anti-air to pressure people in vehicle assets like in Battlefield or Planetside.
On the other end of the spectrum they could also have released some 4v4 or 8v8 maps more focused on CQC style shooting with a mix of confined and open areas in a tight area emphasizing checking your corners, peek shooting, etc., like in CS and CS:GO. Which might have also attracted a competitive scene, who knows?
I think Dust was an interesting experiment but in the end it always felt like a shooter that really didn't know itself what kind of shooter it wanted to be to offer.
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Yea I agree. I'll add that I'm not a fan of any of the modern shooters and I avoid call of duty et all like the plague.
But if you are going after that fps money customer then you are competing with those products.
Whatever they do they have to make it 100% clear from devs on down to end user the sort of feel they are going for, or they will end up with dust's lack of focus.
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More or less that's exactly how it felt at ground zero. A lack of focus compounded by the changes in management (CCP Blam to CCP Wolfman and finally to CCP Rattati) saw Dust slowly change from something I thought was a little more suited to EVE despite the issues into a more run and gun casual game than tactical shooter.
I do hope with what CCP has learned from Dust that they form a clear idea of what kind of game they want to create and pursue that.
The thing I hope CCP keeps is the communications systems. The social aspect of Dust is probably the best thing about it. Toss that in with market system (even if it only is limited to Dust related items) also would help.
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Whatever they do they have to make it 100% clear from devs on down to end user the sort of feel they are going for, or they will end up with dust's lack of focus.
Lack of Focus? In the beginning yes. It's reception was not well received since the "finished" product never had the companies buy in. The niche presented was too nichey. The end game and all its flaws had development that cared, and I can only imagine what Rattatis initiative and frugality with Maria Sayans Midas touch would look like on the next gen, but instead of talking about the failures I ask what could be done now in order to create content in both games that will hopefully become commonplace with the pending game in the works.
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Whatever they do they have to make it 100% clear from devs on down to end user the sort of feel they are going for, or they will end up with dust's lack of focus.
Lack of Focus? In the beginning yes. It's reception was not well received since the "finished" product never had the companies buy in. The niche presented was too nichey. The end game and all its flaws had development that cared, and I can only imagine what Rattatis initiative and frugality with Maria Sayans Midas touch would look like on the next gen, but instead of talking about the failures I ask what could be done now in order to create content in both games that will hopefully become commonplace with the pending game in the works.
I say none and don't bother with any 'integration' attempts, but my opinion counts for nill :P Both games operate at significant differences in timing and duration of combat, there's a fundamental gameplay disconnect in the concept of marrying the two (in my eyes).
Only thing you might be able to do is have stations/citadels/whatever under timers showing up on dust servers as upcoming battles to join? I dunno.
Make it a standalone singleplayer story / pvp game with the proper scope and depth of the amazing setting. Most of all it should feel 'alive' that you are inside the IP, interacting with that world. Gunfights in high sec stations, shootouts in markets on planet surfaces in lowsec. Boarding actions on capital ships and battleships. You've got a wonderful, busy, wide universe to play in, don't spend it only fighting over big open landscapes?
But does this game want to be a squad, tactical shooter? A big open world vehicle mega battle? A run and gun infinite respawn pew pew fest? Beats me.
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Whatever they do they have to make it 100% clear from devs on down to end user the sort of feel they are going for, or they will end up with dust's lack of focus.
Lack of Focus? In the beginning yes. It's reception was not well received since the "finished" product never had the companies buy in. The niche presented was too nichey. The end game and all its flaws had development that cared, and I can only imagine what Rattatis initiative and frugality with Maria Sayans Midas touch would look like on the next gen, but instead of talking about the failures I ask what could be done now in order to create content in both games that will hopefully become commonplace with the pending game in the works.
Honestly I think EVE:FPS needs to be able to stand on its own before too many intense links between it and EVE form. Links wise there are a few small minor ones that would alongside a more polished foundation do wonders for the game.
- Dust Player access to regions and systems of their choosing. More or less the capacity to travel to other systems of their choosing.
- Access to markets/regional markets. Even if we can only buy cloned soldier specific items I think being able to engage in PI or something similar would be a pretty cool economic link.
- Orbital Strikes are cool (admittedly not very necessary) features though I wish EVE players could do more like offer tactical scans, voice with us, as well as striking.
- Planetary Infrastructure. My understanding of this is rather limited to to my knowledge it's essentially a passive resource farm. Introduce an attrition and sabotage mechanic and you'd be generating content for Dust while only cutting into profit margins in a very small way.
If PI infrastructure could also define what maps were available on planets as well as the planet defining the overall mood I think that would be a kick ass draw for players.
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If there were a large group of DUST mercs emigrating to Planetside 2 on PS4, I'd probably be interested in playing with them. I had a lot of fun with DUST until the superjump patch. That's when I hung up my Proto Minmatar scout boots and my Ishukone Nova Knives for good.
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With all hearing a long scale Singularity style test (but with a somewhat realistic eve market) to make both work would be in order it would take years of tinkering and ample time for vets to adapt to any changes.