Backstage - OOC Forums
General Discussion => The Speakeasy: OOG/Off-topic Discussion => Topic started by: Mizhara on 31 Oct 2015, 17:24
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For those who need a recap of SC2 so far. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJgeE5CJzPo)
Starcraft 2 has been a weird game, really. Divided into three different releases, spaced quite far apart. It's been obvious to many that while the episodic thing is understandable since each part is as long and far more feature rich than the entire original, each part has been delayed significantly in order to be timed for maximum profit and game relevance over time.
Still, I can't really complain. As shit as I am in multiplayer RTS, I play them for the campaigns and they've never disappointed. As RTS games go, they're available to the casuals like myself and challenging for the people preferring hard modes both. High production values in stories, cutscenes and even some campaign choices and upgrade systems even gives them replay value. Besides, I love me some sci-fi fantasy epics and given how much they ripped off WH40K yet somehow managed to make it their own after a little work, it's all good for me.
So Legacy of the Void (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJgeE5CJzPo) tickles all my bones.
How about you? Looking forwards to to give your life for Aiur?
Oh, and if you own WoL/HotS, you have access to the three prologue missions for LotV right now.
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I've always appreciated Blizzard's absolutely stellar cgi/cutscene team. Very, very good work, every bit of $$ shows up in their animation.
That being said sc2 multiplayer was designed from the ground up to cater to the Korean competative scene, which crippled any original gameplay ideas from being explored. RTS has come a long way since SC1 but you wouldn't know it from how sc2 plays or fights.
The gameplay is punishingly dependent on fighting the UI to do what you want, rather than the UI being an expression of your strategic will, if that makes any sense. It's the call of duty/twitch based rts.
Oh regarding 40k, blizzard did approach GW to use the license in the 90s to make an rts, they said NO so blizzard just reskinned the IP into starcraft
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Personally i'm glad they didn't buy 40k. I like 40k but I find SC to be much, much less soulless and much more engaging...
Well, i'm a bit divided when it comes to SC2. I absolutely loved SC since the first one was released, but I feel that Blizzard are getting stale in their stories (it clearly shows on the warcraft license). They reprocess and re-use all the same story tropes and threads that they already used in WoW (we can make so many parallels that it's easy to guess the end of the story just looking at WC3 and WoW).
Coupled to the fact that they don't seem to want to disturb the statu quo of the races, for obvious reasons, and eventually they never evolved. They make you believe they will change and mature, but eventually it's always back to the starting point, and stuff resets and starts again in a different fashion, to a point where it just stretches the suspension of disbelief. "Oh, the terran allied with the protoss, then they ally with kerrigan/zerg, then they fight each other again, etc". Yeah... well.
Now then, I absolutely loved Wings of Liberty, which was even better than SC1 story wise to me. It was absolutely glorious, the innovative take on what you get between missions in the HQ... The story was humoring you and witty. It had depth and was sometimes moving (especially at the start and the end).
In contrast, I found HotS to be clearly underwhelming. The beginning was very promising, we were sold a Kerrigan searching for herself in exile, and then they clearly didn't want her to evolve and... Well. What was all that for? Nothing. I felt it ruined a bit what we got in Wings of Liberty. It remade her into a lot less likeable character. And what about sidekicks and secondary characters? Anthropomorphic zergs that have the depth of an oyster... Overall, once you get your own ship and you are out of the prologue sequence in HotS, it starts to get boring pretty quick, until the end where stuff happens at last...
Honestly, I was expecting something much more akin to what we had in SC1. Playing the zerg and the protoss never felt that less interesting than playing the terran compaign because their characters still felt interesting, and the synergy with other factions kept them interesting.
So... I'm a bit wary of trying the last episode with the protoss, especially as I don't really like the new take they have on them. Now they just feel like space elves... I am unable to explain it well, but the vibe I get from them has drastically changed. I now feel like I see a warcraft ripoff in space rather than the protoss I loved from SC1...
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@Silas: That is a fair description of the multiplayer, indeed. I still don't blame them for that, since it does lend itself to a ridiculously high skill ceiling competitive game with quite a bit of complexity, but it does make it prohibitively difficult for casuals to get into.
Still though... gotta play that campaign. It's going to be glorious.
@Lyn: Well, they are space elves. It's kind of been their thing since the beginning. They're the Eldar, the Zerg are the Tyranids, Terrans are Imperium of Man etc and the big shadowy scary Amon is a Chaos God. I would argue that they've actually managed to do well when it comes to differentiating the zerg from their Tyranid source, though. Also, I don't really know what else they could have done with Kerrigan than what they did.
HotS wasn't as good a campaign as WoL, I'll grant you that, but I think it suffered from the Second Act problem of just being the bit that sets up the climactic third and final act. Besides, I have a weak spot for characters that are willing to go as far as is needed to achieve a goal and Kerrigan is pretty much the epitome of that. She went from the nihilistic uberpsycho of WoL/Brood Wars to a far more relatable big scary, who had/has quite a plethora of motivations for becoming as powerful as possible and needing the Zerg for it.
The Protoss characters I've seen so far in their short stories, cutscenes, trailers and so on actually makes me pretty giddy for LotV, but then I've always thought of them as the Starcraft Eldar anyway.
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I've already pre-ordered LotV. If Zeratul dies I'm gonna slap a bitch. Protoss was always my favorite faction from the SC universe, and the LotV trailer only made my already erect nerdboner even harder. My life for Aiur, En Taro Tassadar, etc etc looking forward to stomping on bitches to take back Aiur.
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A minimum of ten warpgates on every level, and a drone or warp prism with every scouting force. Near instantly dropping four zealots, four stalkers and two of those little... beamshieldthingies anywhere on the map is going to be overpowered unless they're really good at designing singleplayer levels.
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@Lyn: Well, they are space elves. It's kind of been their thing since the beginning. They're the Eldar, the Zerg are the Tyranids, Terrans are Imperium of Man etc and the big shadowy scary Amon is a Chaos God. I would argue that they've actually managed to do well when it comes to differentiating the zerg from their Tyranid source, though. Also, I don't really know what else they could have done with Kerrigan than what they did.
HotS wasn't as good a campaign as WoL, I'll grant you that, but I think it suffered from the Second Act problem of just being the bit that sets up the climactic third and final act. Besides, I have a weak spot for characters that are willing to go as far as is needed to achieve a goal and Kerrigan is pretty much the epitome of that. She went from the nihilistic uberpsycho of WoL/Brood Wars to a far more relatable big scary, who had/has quite a plethora of motivations for becoming as powerful as possible and needing the Zerg for it.
The Protoss characters I've seen so far in their short stories, cutscenes, trailers and so on actually makes me pretty giddy for LotV, but then I've always thought of them as the Starcraft Eldar anyway.
Well I really disagree on the elves part. I can see where it comes from since yes, they are layered on the Eldars, but I think they only took the non elves part of the Eldars when they did the Protoss in SC1. I really, really have a hard time seeing what is elvish about SC1 Protoss... Even their art direction screams at something else: their tech was bulky, yet elegant. We totally lost the first part of it. They might have had some elvish sides on their personalities, though honestly I saw them a lot more like religious fanatics more akin to the Eldars. Even the eldars, while sure based on elvish stuff themselves, do not scream elves to me either though. They scream shinto to me first and foremost (and that's the part I absolutely love with the Eldars).
I admit that Kerrigan is a lot better than her old psycho dominatrix cliché that I never totally was fond of, especially in Brood Wars. I also like the fact that she remains now clearer of mind and purpose, and it also shows in the more and more anthropomorphized side of the zerg (something I don't like though, but for other reasons). I guess I was just expecting something different. I find her returning to what she was to be eventually... trite. Expected. Also contributes to the non evolutive side of Blizzard current stories... You know when I loved her most in HotS? Just in the prologue. Especially when she flees and is found alone in her ship with her zerg little friend. I found that part quite moving for some reason. I envisioned her to struggle with what she became, what she lost, and it would have lead to a lot of very interesting scenari where she doesn't fit plainly with the terran, but neither the zerg. It would have also offered her the same opportunity to go on a pilgrimage to find herself again, like she does in HotS, albeit in a different manner...
Yeah well, that's more what I would have expected. I find it a lot more poignant.
And yeah, I find her heels pretty much ridiculous. When are they getting rid of that...?
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Yea I should have been clear, I think the single player campaigns are about as good as you are going to get with that sort of gameplay and engine. At the end if the day you are moving around groups of tiny units with your mouse and they make that as compelling as possible.
My gripes with multiplayer are more that clicks per minute is your barrier of entry. If you don't spend 4 hours a day clicking your mouse as fast as humanly possible you are never even in contention.
IMO i personally prefer competition that is more about strategy and planning more than twitch skill, but thats just me. More like the eve tournaments in theory are more about planning and tactics and the piloting secondary. You could be a mediocre pilot but a good strategist and still do well in alliance tournament style multiplayer, but you could be the best tactition in the world but not have 800 actions per minute on your mouse and you will never win high level SC2.
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I do love all the SC races though, and how they have decided unique gameplay for each
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Full first mission with commentary. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sym7D-egfo8)
Obviously spoileriffic as hell, but if you can't wait three-four days, this is for you. Bit annoying commentary over in-game conversation, though.
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Launch Trailer - Legacy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UyMAPr-G44)
Welp. I'm sold. This gets first priority over FO4. Jaysus.
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Alternative and slightly more gameplay-wise accurate take on the opening cinematic. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4RAucoYZYI)
No spoilers really, but definitely a reference or five worth seeing.
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If only Zerg were really that adorable
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StarCrafts <3
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battle.net is down for maintenance
battle.net is down for maintenance
battle.net is down for maintenance
battle.net is down for maintenance
do you remember when you could play a singleplayer game without relying on some service in whereverthefuckistan?
battle.net is down for maintenance
battle.net is down for maintenance
battle.net is down for maintenance
no seriously, you could just crank up the game and play
battle.net is down for maintenance
battle.net is down for maintenance
at least we get some great new features with this always online horseshit, like... having to load parts of a singleplayer level over the internet
battle.net is down for maintenance
... who am I kidding, I'll still be their little whore.
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MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Okay, I'm loving it so far. The unit customization is pretty excellent, the levels are your RTS standard fare but high quality such and while the story is hitting every single cliche in the book it's well presented and enjoyable. So far, at any rate. Take it with the sufficient amount of salt required given that I've only done five missions this far.
They do tend to go a little over the top epic in the between-missions-cutscenes, but it's Blizzard. It's to be expected.
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That ending! Talk about a damn rollercoaster. Not going to spoil anything, but don't worry if the main campaign ending feels as if it's not really climactic enough. The epilogue campaign ties up every single thread into a big fucking finish. A damn sight bigger than I expected. Throughout the epilogue campaign, I went through the gamut of "Wait, wat? Oh. Wait, wat? FUCK YEAH! Wait, wat? Nooooo! NO! Oh wait, wat? Okay? Okay!" etc.
It's the usual Blizzard over the top cliche as fuck stuff, but as usual it's presented fantastically. If the Blizzard recipe does anything for you, this is a huge serving of exactly that, and I enjoyed it immensely.
Well fucking done Blizz. Starcraft 2 is a shining example of singleplayer RTS done right, and this wrapped up Starcraft very nicely.
Edit: Your mileage may obviously vary. This kind of thing is definitely a matter of subjective tastes.
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My fear is that their stories have gotten stale (at least on the warcraft franchise), and that the current story threads shown since Brood Wars do seem to mimic exactly what happened in warcraft, with the legion = xel'naga and all that jazz. Meaning, I have been expecting an ending exactly similar to WC3 ending since day one.
I will see if they make me wrong I guess, when I find the time to play it...
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Just finished LotV myself. Hnnngghh. It is a bittersweet ending knowing that one of my favorite gaming sagas has come to a close. Sure a lot of the story elements in both SC1 and SC2 are cliche, but that didn't make them any less appealing. The ending cinematic gave me goosebumps. :3
I'll miss you Starcraft <3
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Dat Kerrigan. Dat Raynor. Dat Amon. Dat Narud. Dat errythin'. I think they managed to wrap it up about as good as it could be done, given the subject matter.
Having had a few days from it now, I can definitely say I'll do another playthrough once I'm done with my first FO4 playthrough.
I'm just hungry for someone to play the coop stuff with, but the friends I'd rather do it with either haven't got LotV yet, or are very real life busy.
... and FO4 busy. Hrr.
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You can always play co op with me :3
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My response to completing the campaign: Hell, it is about time. Thank God the SC2 story is over. I'm just not a fan, sorry.
I'm willing to play co-op/MP with people though. Rhifox on Steam or Rhifox#2627 on Bnet if you want to get in touch.