Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Aria Jenneth on 30 Apr 2015, 14:19
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Okay, so, I just figured out that the Drifters are probably raiding the Jove Observatories to find evidence of the Other, and are probably in Amarr space looking for it/her (Jamyl), implying that Dam Torsad and maybe Amarr Prime generally may be about to see a political assassination via doomsday device.
As much as I appreciate the hopeful buildup to the final, violent exorcism of the ghost of Tony G and TEA generally, I feel I must point out:
I could maybe have worked out in character that something like that was going on IF I DIDN'T ALREADY KNOW OOC and therefore feel obliged to avoid making IC remarks that could reflect too much of that knowledge.
Next time you're running a multi-year plot, could you please do those of us in the roleplaying and theorycrafting communities a favor and not show us what's behind the curtain, in any context? The metaknowledge is hard to avoid even if we haven't read the books, and the mystery's more fun when we don't already know that Colonel Mustard did it in the Library with the Rogue Artificial Intelligence.
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To be fair, I'm not sure how anyone would be able to conclude that the Drifters were looking for Jamyl specifically with the knowledge at hand. As far as I see it, nobody could know about the Other besides Jamyl herself, and she certainly hasn't told anyone, right?
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Yes, please to be elaborating?
And Jamyl would deffo have a dust implant onboard right? They'd have to torch everything within range of that? I wonder how many miraculous reincarnations the Amarr populace can have shoved down their throats. "SHE IS RISEN. AGAIN."
Although also there'd be a certain...lol factor to the Amarr getting DD'd by Jovian tech twice in the last few hundred years to debilitating results. :bear:
In B4 most of the heirs also bite the dust except maybe 2 for nice two-sided civil strife establishment?
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Why would they want to kill the other ? Please not that i'm not aware of much regarding the other...
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Why would they want to kill the other ? Please not that i'm not aware of much regarding the other...
The Other is a Sleeper virtual supervillain, that recently escaped from a maximum security asylum for the criminally insane.
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Why would they want to kill the other ? Please not that i'm not aware of much regarding the other...
The Other is a Sleeper virtual supervillain, that recently escaped from a maximum security asylum for the criminally insane.
And the drifters are hibernating jove who are VR controlling big ships in real space? Something like that?
Once they give up the ghost (haha) for all of the Jove (Vorlon) monitoring/society shaping, the cat's out of the bag so to speak yea?
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This is actually kinda why I avoid books/chronicals except when I really need to know some lore background stuff my char/s would know. It's both a boon and a bit of a bust I think.
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As much as I appreciate the hopeful buildup to the final, violent exorcism of the ghost of Tony G and TEA generally, (...)
the mystery's more fun when we don't already know that Colonel Mustard did it in the Library with the Rogue Artificial Intelligence.
Although also there'd be a certain...lol factor to the Amarr getting DD'd by Jovian tech twice in the last few hundred years to debilitating results. :bear:
Now, what else to expect of CCP story telling, hmn? :s
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Or instead of being DD'ed...
They'll simply have the Drifters release the info (or players will find the info) from the observatories that confirms that Jamyl is a clone and has the Other and so on. Triggering the long-expected civil war.
... Yonis for Emperor.
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... Yonis for Emperor.
*hides his 'Articio 4 Emperor' banners* Sorry what? :lol:
But on the point of the main thrust I have never read the books where this is mentioned, but I do agree that despite that I was still aware of the plot OOCly and it has been difficult to be sure that what I have Arkon doing doesn't in anyway reflect that OOC knowledge. More so I think than the usual OOC knowledge one would have from other players, as this OOC knowledge is obviously quite loyalty shattering for a character loyal to Amarr because it is CCP PF.
But ultimately I have found ignoring it works well too, just carrying out my little RP with loyalty focused more on an Heir than the Empire broadly speaking. :)
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Oh boy. So the 'most stable' faction in the cluster gets set up to have a ruler murdered... again.
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Oh boy. So the 'most stable' faction in the cluster gets set up to have a ruler murdered... again.
Stability is boring.
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Oh boy. So the 'most stable' faction in the cluster gets set up to have a ruler murdered... again.
Stability is boring.
Leader of the same empire always getting assassinated gets redundant, too. Thus, boring plot line. :P
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Which is why I'm hoping it's an information leak instead of an assassination, so Yonis can begin righteous rebellion.
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Which is why I'm hoping it's an information leak instead of an assassination, so Yonis can begin righteous rebellion.
Yeah, I'll admit that would be far more interesting of a story. The information leak, I mean.
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According to the novels (Not sure if they are classified as canon so don't kill me) the Other is known by her adviser (Lord Falak, I think?) and a few of her high up staff and generals, and nobody knows how powerful the Jove Observatories are right? Who says they can't detect a sig spike in New Eden when something that psychically powerful hits? Or can't register stuff like that? Who says they dont monitor the people of New Eden? Or have a back door into the CONCORD/CAPSULEER network? If they did they would be able to find a connection somewhere to Jayml being cloned, or a reference somewhere, power spikes that were un registered, who knows?
I mean, think about it, the Jove were the best, smartest, and most advanced people, now, if the Drifters killed them, that means they are better then the Jove, hence more powerful in every way or the Jove would have found a weakness and won, now, using this, is it not plausible that they would have the tech to detect such things? I mean, even in RL we have equipment that can see a heartbeat from 1km away, and that is with a device the size of a iPhone, and we can see someone fart at night from 10-15km away with special THERM vision (I used one once at a Cadet activity with some Armored guys, was awesome!) and we are thousands upon thousands of years behind New Eden if such a thing can even be said.
Also, something people may have missed, there is an Amarrian at the EVE Gate who spoke to and was connected to a Sleeper/Jove Construct/Drone with Jove knowledge, he knew about the Other, who is to say that that information was not saved and sent to the Jove Observatories? I dont know why they would hunt the Other though.. Maybe it is the conscious of someone important or they are afraid it will lead to the people of New Eden finding their weakness, or hell, what if half the Other went into Jayml, and the other half of Jayml went into the Others actual form? Lots of things could be the reason, and as so many say, tin foil hat time.
I can't wait to see, as I loved the books, and got upset once I found out there were no more novels, hopefully if the plot evolves a bit there will be! :D
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To be fair, I'm not sure how anyone would be able to conclude that the Drifters were looking for Jamyl specifically with the knowledge at hand. As far as I see it, nobody could know about the Other besides Jamyl herself, and she certainly hasn't told anyone, right?
Leaving aside the question of who knows or doesn't in the storyline....
In my case, no, I don't think I'd have worked out the Other. However, there are factors that could lead to the conclusion that they're after Jamyl. Most importantly, there's the mysterious superweapon she turned up in possession of, the like of which hasn't been seen before or since and which has never been explained as far as our characters know beyond it being the "fire of God" or somesuch, which pretty much nobody outside the Empire (and probably not as many inside as it usually looks like) ever bought for a second.
As it stands, I can't even speculate on it because (1) yes, it takes an inferential leap of logic (which, however, I love making) and (2) it's clear from metaknowledge that even if it's wrong, it's too good a guess to be fairly made.
Grrr.
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The problem with writing a story sometimes where vast secrets and world changing conspiracies happen, you run the risk of the audience eventually getting fatigued.
I feel sometimes like this is more appropriate for a 'shutting off the servers lay it all on the table' sort of plot reveal than a new expansion plot, if that makes sense?
Unless this leads to some holy crusade through the wormholes to fight the drifters ultimate battle 9000 or something *shrug*
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Why would they want to kill the other ? Please not that i'm not aware of much regarding the other...
The Other is a Sleeper virtual supervillain, that recently escaped from a maximum security asylum for the criminally insane.
And the drifters are hibernating jove who are VR controlling big ships in real space? Something like that?
Once they give up the ghost (haha) for all of the Jove (Vorlon) monitoring/society shaping, the cat's out of the bag so to speak yea?
I don't know. I made that up. I think ? Or maybe I didn't. I'm not sure anymore. /o\
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As I mentioned in OOC, I'm not sure what the point of "de-TonyG-ing" the lore is if the current writer(s) are of the opinion that TonyG's biggest fault was being far too nice to Amarr and Caldari RP.
RPers who belong to those two factions have gone from sitting on a cactus to having it shoved up their ass, in other words. Yay.
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In other news, we really don't know what's going to happen in Amarr space.
It probably involves Jamyl, sure-- but are the Drifters aligned with the Others? Opposed to them? The Others themselves? Is Jamyl going to go mad, or begin a proper war with the Drifters, or...? So-- not knowing exactly what will follow, we just have to follow the thread. Affinity and Falcon are clever folk, so I've no doubt it'll be fun, at the very least.
Also, Vikarion, I dare say we very greatly disagree on the state of the Amarr and Caldari factions. The issue isn't who was nice or not-nice, but rather that currently these factions are homogeneous in a way they shouldn't be. More chaos will allow people to more distinctly position their characters within a faction.
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Also, Vikarion, I dare say we very greatly disagree on the state of the Amarr and Caldari factions. The issue isn't who was nice or not-nice, but rather that currently these factions are homogeneous in a way they shouldn't be. More chaos will allow people to more distinctly position their characters within a faction.
Are you kidding me?
Meh. You probably aren't.
Well, here's the thing - I read the lore. Actually, I try to read ALL the lore, from news articles to the books CCP produces. Here's the problem: there are more descriptions and depictions of infighting between Caldari Megas/forces than there are of "internal combat" of all the other factions...combined. Yes, really. And yet, the Caldari are too "homogeneous".
Well, ok, but why pick on the least "homogeneous" faction, if that's your problem? Why not spin up a story in the Federation? Oh, right...they are the designated "good guys", and no one can seriously disagree with democracy and human rights and peace and goodness and beautiful white unicorns! Squeeeee!
Even funnier: you know what? Guess what is the faction with the second-most internal conflict? Oh, right! The Amarr. The most-stable empire: home to almost as much political turmoil as a real-world third world country. Actually, maybe more.
If you want to introduce diversity within a faction, start with replacing the Mary-Sue paint that CCP has dumped on their two "good-guy" factions, and introduce some disagreement and division there.
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Or instead of being DD'ed...
They'll simply have the Drifters release the info (or players will find the info) from the observatories that confirms that Jamyl is a clone and has the Other and so on. Triggering the long-expected civil war.
... Yonis for Emperor.
You have thought about this haven't you >.>
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Also, Vikarion, I dare say we very greatly disagree on the state of the Amarr and Caldari factions. The issue isn't who was nice or not-nice, but rather that currently these factions are homogeneous in a way they shouldn't be. More chaos will allow people to more distinctly position their characters within a faction.
Are you kidding me?
Meh. You probably aren't.
Well, here's the thing - I read the lore. Actually, I try to read ALL the lore, from news articles to the books CCP produces. Here's the problem: there are more descriptions and depictions of infighting between Caldari Megas/forces than there are of "internal combat" of all the other factions...combined. Yes, really. And yet, the Caldari are too "homogeneous".
Well, ok, but why pick on the least "homogeneous" faction, if that's your problem? Why not spin up a story in the Federation? Oh, right...they are the designated "good guys", and no one can seriously disagree with democracy and human rights and peace and goodness and beautiful white unicorns! Squeeeee!
Even funnier: you know what? Guess what is the faction with the second-most internal conflict? Oh, right! The Amarr. The most-stable empire: home to almost as much political turmoil as a real-world third world country. Actually, maybe more.
If you want to introduce diversity within a faction, start with replacing the Mary-Sue paint that CCP has dumped on their two "good-guy" factions, and introduce some disagreement and division there.
I suppose i'm not living in the same lore...
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I seem to have missed something here, but what are the Drifters doing differently in Amarr space then elsewhere ?
I have never thought of the Drifters as looking for the other. In fact I pretty much had them down as actually being the other (if you are an artificial intelligence then copying yourself into multiple hosts is probably not hard).
My train of thought was that after Carolines Star went boom the last of the Jove went with it so the other became much more open with its operations, its raiding the observatories for X to do bad thing Y.
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The Drifters are the enduannniiii who also can now operate more openly since the Jove that opposed them have gone.
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I seem to have missed something here, but what are the Drifters doing differently in Amarr space then elsewhere ?
They're appearing in larger numbers and moving aggressively into territory that they previously avoided, including Amarr itself.
Vikarion: call me a jaded cynic, but I'm not really interested in the "whose faction is better than who else's" debate. There's another thread here dedicated exclusively to how much the Minmatar have been "the faction of fail" lately, which would mean that three of the four are now horrible by our contemporary standards for one reason or another.
RPG politics always somehow seems to involve allegations of favoritism by whoever's running the thing. Sometimes it's valid, sometimes it's not, but it's always tedious and invariably distracts from the game itself.
The Gallente are set up to be the only faction that really reflects contemporary Western social and political values. So, yeah, at minimum they're going to look like jerks to us less often. But they're not very interesting to me for almost exactly that reason.
That said, I am looking forward to writing about them through Aria's eyes. That should be a hoot.
Since ain't nobody going to actually succeed in "saving" New Eden, white hats or no, CCP's opinion is of minimal concern. Tony G was an issue because he went in for melodrama, and THAT I really cannot be having with.
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On the upside, if the Drifters do explode the Empress Muck Raker might do a piece about Drifters: Defenders of Righteous Behaviour, given all the rumors about orgies and drugs and the lack of any other ICly observable motive.
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Well, here's the thing - I read the lore. Actually, I try to read ALL the lore, from news articles to the books CCP produces. Here's the problem: there are more descriptions and depictions of infighting between Caldari Megas/forces than there are of "internal combat" of all the other factions...combined. Yes, really. And yet, the Caldari are too "homogeneous".
Well, ok, but why pick on the least "homogeneous" faction, if that's your problem? Why not spin up a story in the Federation? Oh, right...they are the designated "good guys", and no one can seriously disagree with democracy and human rights and peace and goodness and beautiful white unicorns! Squeeeee!
Even funnier: you know what? Guess what is the faction with the second-most internal conflict? Oh, right! The Amarr. The most-stable empire: home to almost as much political turmoil as a real-world third world country. Actually, maybe more.
If you want to introduce diversity within a faction, start with replacing the Mary-Sue paint that CCP has dumped on their two "good-guy" factions, and introduce some disagreement and division there.
So. Lore nerd here. Trust me, I read the lore also. Chronicles, novels, Source, news, trawling the Wiki for stuff that's old.
The Caldari are frequently described as fractious and combative, but we see practically none of it played out in game. When was the last time different factions of Caldari were given a reason to have a go at each other? Today, yes, Lai Dai was implicated in the theft of the Seeadler by the Scope. Before that-- Tibus Heth? Honestly, that stopped being divisive about the time I started back up in March of 2013, save with Diana Kim.
That said, I fullheartedly agree that some more Black Eagle stuff/Roden profiteering/Gallente cultural hegemony stuff would be fun-- but they've played on that more recently with the Midular arc. Again, unfortunately old news.
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The problem isn't that one side has been particularly abused more than others.
The problem is that factions in EVE seem to exist in two (perhaps three) states: Wildly succeeding, and in total failcascade. Middle ground is rare and poorly documented, and success seems fleeting when you know that it is going to be accompanied by inevitable failure to maintain the status quo.
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I just tend to assume that a total lack of news = "working okay for now."
After all, mere success isn't newsworthy.
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So. Lore nerd here. Trust me, I read the lore also. Chronicles, novels, Source, news, trawling the Wiki for stuff that's old.
Oooh, I just realized that my statement might have implied that you haven't read the lore, and I really didn't mean that. I'm sorry. :(
The Caldari are frequently described as fractious and combative, but we see practically none of it played out in game. When was the last time different factions of Caldari were given a reason to have a go at each other? Today, yes, Lai Dai was implicated in the theft of the Seeadler by the Scope. Before that-- Tibus Heth? Honestly, that stopped being divisive about the time I started back up in March of 2013, save with Diana Kim.
That said, I fullheartedly agree that some more Black Eagle stuff/Roden profiteering/Gallente cultural hegemony stuff would be fun-- but they've played on that more recently with the Midular arc. Again, unfortunately old news.
Ah. I think I have a somewhat longer perspective, perhaps. And, remember, my comment was about internal political conflict.
We've had 2-3 arcs with Caldari corporations going after each other, including one with SuVee and Lai Dai blowing up parts of each other's stations. We had two internal rebellions from the Brotherhood of Freedom, we have a few Chronicles, including the Waschi city uprising in the Mordu Chron. We had internal conflict in the State in TEA, in TBL, and then we had the giant Heth arc which was nothing but more and more internal conflict in the State. And now Falcon is promising more upheaval in the State.
For the Minmatar, we've had, I think, one major internal incident: the fall of Midular. In the Federation, two, when Fouritain tried to nationalize some of the Gallente industries, and...maybe...when the Intaki refused re-occupation by Gallente forces. I don't count the presidential elections because they've all gone pretty successfully.
The Amarr, of course, are almost as dumped on as the Caldari in this instance, so I suppose I should amend my statement to be "the Caldari have had as much internal conflict as the Gallente and Minmatar combined". Nonetheless, the Amarr have still had fewer stories about it than the Caldari.
The Midular incident was not internal conflict. It was an external political conflict between Fed and Republic, and seemed mostly designed to make the Minmatar look like hot-headed morons who fight like idiots.
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Vikarion: call me a jaded cynic, but I'm not really interested in the "whose faction is better than who else's" debate. There's another thread here dedicated exclusively to how much the Minmatar have been "the faction of fail" lately, which would mean that three of the four are now horrible by our contemporary standards for one reason or another.
Disingenuous as this might sound, I'm not actually trying to argue for making the Caldari the "best faction". My problem isn't that, say, the Federation has western values which attract some players to them. My problem is consistency.
I've always been told that, in creating a good story, you should "show" rather than "tell". I'm not particularly great at this, perhaps, but then, no one is paying me to write, either. But what CCP tells us, and what CCP shows us, are two different things.
It is almost certainly true that life for a disadvantaged person is far better in the Federation than in the State. In fact, although the State is said to have a reasonable standard of living, its citizens have far less privacy, fewer rights, and more obligations than anyone living in the Federation. There's not a lot of personal freedom. For many people, that's a bad side to the State. And we are both shown this, and told this.
On the other hand, the State is supposed to be, militarily, the most powerful empire (at least according to EvE:Source). It's supposed to be on the cutting edge of military tech, and to have the most advanced weapons and ships, as well as the best-trained naval personnel. But while we are told this, what we have been shown for the past several years is the State being completely incompetent in all areas of military action and strategic thinking. I can list examples, but it's really not hard to go find them, and this post is long enough.
Similar results obtain for the other empires. Their bad sides are given full display. Their good sides...well, we're told about them, but for the most part, the Federation gets portrayed as being even better than what other empires are supposed to have as their "hat".
Which ends up with, yes, the State, Empire, and Republic basically being used as stick figures for the Federation to be better than. I don't see how this is fun. I don't even see how this is fun for Fed RPers. This sort of situation is usually the result of a writer deciding on a rather masturbatory endeavor to produce his or her ideal character (mary sue), but in this case, I'm not sure that it's intentional. I just argue that the current situation is not ideal.
It also detracts from verisimilitude. In real life, countries really do have to have priorities. For example, the U.S. spends a lot more on its military and a lot less on social programs than Denmark (percentage-wise), IIRC. Denmark, on the average, has much happier citizens than the U.S. - but, on the other hand, the U.S. could crush Denmark like a bug if Denmark tried to invade the U.S. Wouldn't it be strange to have a story where Denmark not only had the happy citizens, but also invaded and annexed the east coast of the U.S.? All other things being equal, that story would be unbelievable.
Hopefully that made a little more sense.
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This isn't bittervetting this is an observation done in a conversational tone, caveat that I'm just discussing without negative intent here:
I think one of the difficult things for the writers is that the more they show and describe about the various factions, the more they can sometimes write themselves into a corner and contradict themselves down the line. It's a common difficulty when you've got a wide-ranging and sprawling fiction IP.
Every time someone writes a star wars or a star trek book there's someone in the back of the room raising their hand 'no way that would work the romulan warbird type x would actually shoot down three enterprises before it dies' and sure enough they're right according to lore, but then the whole story falls apart.
So I imagine they come up with story ideas they like and try to make them work, and it's likely very hard (nearly impossible) for them not to step on any lore landmines lurking beneath the surface, but hey they've already drawn artwork, made a new dust level, wrote a new chronicle, or a new gameplay mechanic, they can't go back now because 5 lore nerds know it's wrong or maybe sort of ridiculous, does that make sense?
That's the impression I get at least. If you RP a caldari and that's all you think about, you are going to do a lot of head shaking for the Caldari Prime event just because you are waist deep in how you've come to think that faction should work.
I think they have to result to 'trickery' and plot mcfuffins sometimes to get around how they've written the factions and how they interact with each other.
Otherwise the Elders don't get past the gates, and the Federation never recaptures the planet, etc. They've set up some factions to be outright stronger than others in lore, but this doesn't mean they can't lose. They just seem to maybe lose often in fiction and events in ways that are a bit out of left field maybe?
So maybe when the Federation and the State meet head to head, the State wins more often than not. But if they want the Fed to win x battle they can write around this talking about I don't know, super awesome Federal spy networks getting intel or being sneaky (tm) with some cunning outside of combat plan not involving ship pew pew, I don't know.
The same way that maybe the Amarr have giant scary fleets but the trixie Matari maybe will be willing to go to extremes of suicidal jihadi tactics the Amarr won't contemplate just to prove a point, etc etc.
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I get that, Silas. But then, let's put it this way: since TEA, the Federation has fought the forces of every other empire. And hasn't lost a single battle. Indeed, some battles, like Colelie, seem forced, and only created so that the Fed could have another instance of beating the shit out of someone.
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And by the way, I know that I'm one of those bittervets that I thought I'd never be. Eh, well. But I'm still playing EvE. So, obviously, I don't consider the game a lost cause. I just think it could be done better.
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@Silas : the Defiants storyarc was actually a good example of a bitter fight of asymmetrical warfare between the Amarr and Freedom Fighters.
So. Lore nerd here. Trust me, I read the lore also. Chronicles, novels, Source, news, trawling the Wiki for stuff that's old.
Oooh, I just realized that my statement might have implied that you haven't read the lore, and I really didn't mean that. I'm sorry. :(
The Caldari are frequently described as fractious and combative, but we see practically none of it played out in game. When was the last time different factions of Caldari were given a reason to have a go at each other? Today, yes, Lai Dai was implicated in the theft of the Seeadler by the Scope. Before that-- Tibus Heth? Honestly, that stopped being divisive about the time I started back up in March of 2013, save with Diana Kim.
That said, I fullheartedly agree that some more Black Eagle stuff/Roden profiteering/Gallente cultural hegemony stuff would be fun-- but they've played on that more recently with the Midular arc. Again, unfortunately old news.
Ah. I think I have a somewhat longer perspective, perhaps. And, remember, my comment was about internal political conflict.
We've had 2-3 arcs with Caldari corporations going after each other, including one with SuVee and Lai Dai blowing up parts of each other's stations. We had two internal rebellions from the Brotherhood of Freedom, we have a few Chronicles, including the Waschi city uprising in the Mordu Chron. We had internal conflict in the State in TEA, in TBL, and then we had the giant Heth arc which was nothing but more and more internal conflict in the State. And now Falcon is promising more upheaval in the State.
For the Minmatar, we've had, I think, one major internal incident: the fall of Midular. In the Federation, two, when Fouritain tried to nationalize some of the Gallente industries, and...maybe...when the Intaki refused re-occupation by Gallente forces. I don't count the presidential elections because they've all gone pretty successfully.
The Amarr, of course, are almost as dumped on as the Caldari in this instance, so I suppose I should amend my statement to be "the Caldari have had as much internal conflict as the Gallente and Minmatar combined". Nonetheless, the Amarr have still had fewer stories about it than the Caldari.
The Midular incident was not internal conflict. It was an external political conflict between Fed and Republic, and seemed mostly designed to make the Minmatar look like hot-headed morons who fight like idiots.
Uh, in the Federation there was several accounts of bitter political intrigue between sociocrats and progressives, between Mentas Blaque and Suro Foiritain... Albeit, that is.. very old. I'm not sure for the rest, but I think i'm missing some.
Ah yes. A lot of conflicts around Intaki and the Syndicate, which is mirrored with issues around the Jin Mei (we have so few info on the Jin Mei !), and also in other empires like with the Achura. Probably still forgetting a few things... The gallente epic arc probably. One of the most creepy and grim pieces of lore I have ever read besides Karsoth, or the Faces we Wear, with child labour/pornography, underground circuses with politics hands in their porckets, minmatar immigrates stomping and murder ordered by black eagle through capsuleer intermediaries (which added to that works and makes them talk ! Speak about grimdark... Torture works !).
For the Amarr, well, in terms of in fighting, they win the day imo. Between the almost civil war between Tetrimon and the TC, Doriam assassination, Heirs infighting for the throne before Jamyl came into power... Ah, that and Khanid being in a cold war with the Amarr for half of the game life. Then you have the usual chronicles either telling about slave uprisings, or that novella with transit workers rebellions all around. Even the Amarr epic arc is like the Caldari one : a lot of political infighting, even if in a different form.
As for the Minmatar, well, we lack of things on the Minmatar lore, but there still was inter tribal infighting as well, and continues to be. Before between Midularists and Shakorites, now between tribes and coming back tribes like Thukkers and Nefantars...
And well, I think that's good. I want to get back to the old cold war that allowed for sub faction conflict. Now that there is a war, and big threats, it's expected from everyone to unite under banners...
Also, on the military incompetence, I can safely say that it's true for all of them. I perfectly see what you are referring to for the Caldari (the CP fiasco, or tidbits like the novice arc with caldari navy fleets being only composed of BSes, which is presented as a flaw... with reason). Well, for the Amarr, speak about incompetence. Vak'Atioth (japanese style, banzaiiii), Kador in Solitude, the Amarr navy response when invaded by the Elder Fleet (it sure isn't like Tripwire), The Amarr navy vs the Defiants and Karishal Muritor... Well that last one actually was a bitter and nice fight, and Vak'Atioth even if showing pure incompetence, also showed an important side of the Amarr misplaced pride in that time. For the Minmatar ? Lol, jumping a few dreads to make a hissy fit at the Federation in Colelie ? And for the Fed ? They were pretty much spineless and apathetic before Roden. Foiritain presented as one of the best presidents in terms of prosperity and times of peace, sure, but militarily ? A disaster. With traitors everywhere (hello, i'm Avent Eturrer and you also know me as Gaius Baltar the turncoat! And hello, my name is Alexander Noir and I like crashing nyxes into station, nine eleven style). The Fed navy was even described as in a state of decay when TEA happened, lacking of funds and especially, enlisted personnel.
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IIRC from the short story Vak A'tioth was actually inside job by the commanding admiral to leeroy the fleet intentionally to atone for his evil ways?
They might have lost anyway but it wouldn't have been one-sided otherwise.
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IIRC from the short story Vak A'tioth was actually inside job by the commanding admiral to leeroy the fleet intentionally to atone for his evil ways?
They might have lost anyway but it wouldn't have been one-sided otherwise.
Yes, essentially. Jove tech was definitely superior but the big reason the Amarr fleet lost so handedly is because the FC was a spy for the other side. If the war had continued it's likely the Amarr would have done a -lot- better... but the Jove used the Minmatar to distract them.
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Which is why I'm hoping it's an information leak instead of an assassination, so Yonis can begin righteous rebellion.
Yeah, I'll admit that would be far more interesting of a story. The information leak, I mean.
Well, wouldn't that basically boil down to a certain type of assasination as well? I think it would.
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Which is why I'm hoping it's an information leak instead of an assassination, so Yonis can begin righteous rebellion.
Yeah, I'll admit that would be far more interesting of a story. The information leak, I mean.
Well, wouldn't that basically boil down to a certain type of assasination as well? I think it would.
When I mean 'assassination', I'm it more in the usual sense. As in, person and/or group attempts to off said person. Character assassination didn't even come to mind, but reality of the situation is this. As much as we don't like the idea of something happening to Jamyl, I think we all knew something would happen eventually that would potentially remove her from the throne. All I'm saying is, since it seems to be the inevitable, I'm hopeful it's written up something better then just "Drifters find Jamyl, lock target, shoot, kill."
But mind you, I don't have a ton of hope there, either. :P
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Dear CCP.
Ignore anyone and everyone in this forum and anywhere else. Keep on doing what you want to do. I'm happy with any content, and thankful for any effort.
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Dear CCP.
Ignore anyone and everyone in this forum and anywhere else. Keep on doing what you want to do. I'm happy with any content, and thankful for any effort.
This should be made into T-shirts and send in to Reykjavik to their office. :P
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Dear CCP.
Ignore anyone and everyone in this forum and anywhere else. Keep on doing what you want to do. I'm happy with any content, and thankful for any effort.
I dunno quite about that.
There's a middle ground between complaining costantly and never saying a thing about developer direction. I've seen writers who believe they can do no wrong produce stuff worse than nothing.
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Dear CCP.
Ignore anyone and everyone in this forum and anywhere else. Keep on doing what you want to do. I'm happy with any content, and thankful for any effort.
False dichotomy. I don't think anyone here wants CCP to stop producing content. We just have opinions on making that content better.
Authors who get nothing but sycophantic approval from their readers often turn into really horrible writers (looking at your stuff, David Weber).
Similarly, we've seen CCP do some truly unintelligent stuff when they got too high on themselves.
That said, if you want to start a CCP appreciation thread, I won't be shitting on them in it. :P
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Truly a sign of the end times, agreeing with vikarion. Jeebus help us all.
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Dear CCP.
Ignore anyone and everyone in this forum and anywhere else. Keep on doing what you want to do. I'm happy with any content, and thankful for any effort.
False dichotomy. I don't think anyone here wants CCP to stop producing content. We just have opinions on making that content better.
Authors who get nothing but sycophantic approval from their readers often turn into really horrible writers (looking at your stuff, David Weber).
Similarly, we've seen CCP do some truly unintelligent stuff when they got too high on themselves.
That said, if you want to start a CCP appreciation thread, I won't be shitting on them in it. :P
I, too, agree with Vikarion.
In general, I'm pretty "Okay, sounds interesting," with most stuff CCP is and has been up to, with the glaring exceptions of (1) Tony G, whom I have come to kind of loathe, but who no longer works for CCP, and (2) malign neglect.
I reserve my right to engage in constructive criticism. In this case, my complaint is over things done long ago by that same villainous, wicked, departed Tony G; the reason for the grumble is to hopefully highlight the long-running issues he created and discourage similar premature curtain-lifting in the future.
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Dear CCP.
Ignore anyone and everyone in this forum and anywhere else. Keep on doing what you want to do. I'm happy with any content, and thankful for any effort.
Not empty quoting.
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Dear CCP.
Ignore anyone and everyone in this forum and anywhere else. Keep on doing what you want to do. I'm happy with any content, and thankful for any effort.
False dichotomy. I don't think anyone here wants CCP to stop producing content. We just have opinions on making that content better.
Authors who get nothing but sycophantic approval from their readers often turn into really horrible writers (looking at your stuff, David Weber).
Similarly, we've seen CCP do some truly unintelligent stuff when they got too high on themselves.
That said, if you want to start a CCP appreciation thread, I won't be shitting on them in it. :P
This so hard.
We're not complaining because we hate CCP and never want them to do anything.
We're complaining because we're terrified that CCP is writing themselves into even more destructive situations in the long term, and we legitimately want them to succeed.
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Being happy with whatever we receive seems about as helpful as being impossible to please.
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That may work for you. But it does not have to work for others. This is the first time CCP has dedicated time to lore in a while. So what you'd rather get nothing? If so then I feel bad for you. But again that doesn't mean the rest of us are less for enjoying the content.
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That may work for you. But it does not have to work for others. This is the first time CCP has dedicated time to lore in a while. So what you'd rather get nothing? If so then I feel bad for you. But again that doesn't mean the rest of us are less for enjoying the content.
I don't think anyone is saying CCPs lore output at the moment is terrible, though it's not quite to my taste. But giving a bit of constructive critism is probably more about creating an environment where quality is still regarded as important and writers stay diligent then it is about saying, "You're doing it wrong, you're terrible." People who do nothing but say things like that obviously aren't going to help, but respectfully saying, "I like this, I like this, but this could be a bit better..." Doesn't do any harm. It doesn't have to be a black and white situation where the only reaction to something you don't like is to heckle the content creators, and insult the people who are enjoying it the way it is.
And I don't really follow your logic in regard to saying, "So you'd rather get nothing?" Like... That doesn't seem like a super healthy attitude. I'm not a begger holding a bowl at CCP's table who just should be happy with whatever they get. I'm a paying customer - I'm giving them money to provide a fun experience for me. They aren't the only game in town. If they stop making the stuff I like, I'm not gonna sit and the corner and cry about how I only have myself to blame, I'm going to go play something else.
The impetus is on them.
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That may work for you. But it does not have to work for others. This is the first time CCP has dedicated time to lore in a while. So what you'd rather get nothing? If so then I feel bad for you. But again that doesn't mean the rest of us are less for enjoying the content.
I remember playing games as a child, like monopoly. At that point, I had a certain tendency to want everything to go my way, or I wouldn't play.
I grew out of that by age 9.
If you are arguing that that's the bargain we have to take, well, forgive me for thinking that CCP is more mature than that, or, at least, should be more mature than that.
And I think they are. I rather like the current drifters storyline, for example. I don't want them to drop it. That doesn't mean I don't have criticisms of the wider depiction of their universe.
But, disregarding your attempted enforcement of an all-or-nothing view, I can agree with some things, and roll my eyes at others.
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Being happy with whatever we receive seems about as helpful as being impossible to please.
You're conflating being happy with what we receive and being happy that we are receiving something.
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So, everything is fine then, everyone is happy to receive something, right ?
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So, everything is fine then, everyone is happy to receive something, right ?
Personally, after such a long lore drought? Hell yes.
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So, everything is fine then, everyone is happy to receive something, right ?
Personally, after such a long lore drought? Hell yes.
That was pretty much the point I was trying to make. The last time they started caring about lore and giving us new content, people complained so loudly about how the events were run and how their factions were being treated it's no wonder that CCP stopped. Now that CCP is starting to do this again, the same complaints seem to be popping up. Just because we pay to play in it, doesn't change the fact that it's CCP's sandbox. Personally I'd rather have news and events about stuff I don't care about, or events that go poorly for my faction, than a static game world.
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There is time and place for constructive criticism. The good time and place can also turn into valuable feedback for them.
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That was pretty much the point I was trying to make. The last time they started caring about lore and giving us new content, people complained so loudly about how the events were run and how their factions were being treated it's no wonder that CCP stopped. Now that CCP is starting to do this again, the same complaints seem to be popping up. Just because we pay to play in it, doesn't change the fact that it's CCP's sandbox. Personally I'd rather have news and events about stuff I don't care about, or events that go poorly for my faction, than a static game world.
Just a counterpoint, most people don't complain about those things, the general playerbase consensus has fun with a lot of the events (except the ones that are run poorly. Most people have fun, and I don't think CCP cares what a few lore people think tbh).
Now then,
The company has run quite excellent and memorable story lines and events many times in the past... along with probably an equal number of shit shows;
we can probably all agree they are both capable of, and guilty of, either in equal measure at any time.
The good doesn't outweigh the bad nor the bad the good (thanks, Stannis). I try to judge each on their own merits, if I have my own (irrelevant) personal high standards it is because I know they have talented people who I've seen quite excellent work from, both in plot, game designs, artwork, music, live events, etc.
Now, not having insider knowledge as to the comings and goings of artists and writers and devs, I've drawn my own conclusions about story and art direction over the last say 5 years or so.
There was a 'flip' in the aesthetics of the entire IP at some point, from old Eve to new Eve and I can't quite pin it down. It could just be as simple as one artist leaving and another one having to do more ships that have the same flavor.
Some people like Pepsi, some people like Coke *shrug* I won't tell you to like Pepsi, don't tell me to be happy for getting any soda at all.
Long as we keep our grumblings (and fawning) reasonable and polite, and maybe we avoid threads we don't care to debate in, everyone will probably be much, much happier.
I'll try not to go to a 'drifter ships look awesome' thread and be mean, let people who love zombie jamyl maybe stay out of 'facedesk amarr plot' threads. everyone wins! Big internet, big backstage, plenty of room.
And I do mean that, part of taking one's own advice, I don't need to jump into threads I disagree with just to disagree. Heard loud and clear.
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Again, I don't think it's exactly fair to say "be happy with whatever you get, 'cause it's better than nothing." If that's the attitude CCP takes in regards to players, it's incredibly immature.
To demonstrate this, imagine if CCP was another RPer. Take the Caldari Prime event. If you showed up to an event in which another RPer god-moded the entire event against what was actually happening, and ret-conned what happened in their write-up of the event, you'd probably be just a tad inclined to complain.
And if they then said "oh, well, then I won't RP again", you'd not be very impressed with their attitude, I think.
I'm interested in the storyline. I want to see what happens with the Drifters. But it's legitimate to think that things could be improved, and if CCP takes partial disagreement with them about something as a reason to stop doing anything, well, that's CCP's fault.
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I think I'd like to sometimes see less of the plot railroad tracks and more spurs for the players, if that makes any sense. Don't know if that's possible with current climate though.
It does require writing quite a bit more to handle multiple outcomes or story branches.
So there's a difference in between say, on the one hand drifter flavored incursion style live events and different plotz maybe all leading to 'x' game feature with some wiggle room on getting to that train track, (btw scanning the observatories for the jove logs was very clever way to involve people on their part)
vs Caldari Prime 'this is happening regardless but we'll sell it like you effect the outcome'
One makes you collectively feel like you were involved (even if slightly) in an outcome, one makes you feel like you don't matter (as a player).
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Yes. I loved almost everything about the Cal Prime event - except them blatantly lying about the player agency. If we were doomed to fail and I'd known beforehand, that was okay, but pretending we could make a difference and basically lying about it?
Kind of a dick move.
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They could have similarly one-sided events with some choices involved though.
Say the drifters are going to deus ex machina one of the big four in a "bad for the faction" pew pew kind of way. It's going to happen to one of them no matter what, maybe player events leading up to doomsday effect which faction takes the brunt of the pain.
I dunno, maybe 4 "prime" Jove observatories uncloak above the home planets of each faction, and there's a race to both decrypt logs and also defend the observatories vs incursion style drifter assaults.
The faster the observatories get decrypted by players it spawns new breadcrumb towers similar to the new sov random spawn capture mechanics.
So there's a race to do scanning, finding new towers, and also defending new spawns from drifters.
After a week of this the faction that does the worst gets the drifter titan spawn above their homeworld for massive pain.
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After a week of this the faction that does the worst gets to warp it's fleet to an endlessly respawning Federal Navy flotilla of Blaster Moros at zero range.
Fixed that for you. It IS a Live Event, after all.
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After a week of this the faction that does the worst gets to warp it's fleet to an endlessly respawning Federal Navy flotilla of Blaster Moros at zero range.
Fixed that for you. It IS a Live Event, after all.
Caldari Fleet admiral was just from a bad batch of tube kids.
Leeroy Jenkins creche.
High marks for aggressiveness, low marks for long term planning.
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The handful of events that were actually not too much railroad were probably the succession trials for Doriam (where capsuleer champions battled for their heir and Ecliptical won, which was not expected), or the T3 destroyer race. The outcome depended on the results, and CCP didn't rig or retconned it afaik.
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The handful of events that were actually not too much railroad were probably the succession trials for Doriam (where capsuleer champions battled for their heir and Ecliptical won, which was not expected), or the T3 destroyer race. The outcome depended on the results, and CCP didn't rig or retconned it afaik.
Actually the succession trials where Doriam won was a 'whoops,' so I've been told by a few long time players. CCP had scripted Sarum to win all along. Thus why Doriam was eventually assassinated and Jamyl 'divine' return from the dead.
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Yes, that's why I said not too much railroad... Since at least, they did not retcon it and rolled with it (unlike the caldari win at the Caldari Prime battle). Though considering she is back now, I can admit that... Ok.
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That may work for you. But it does not have to work for others. This is the first time CCP has dedicated time to lore in a while. So what you'd rather get nothing? If so then I feel bad for you. But again that doesn't mean the rest of us are less for enjoying the content.
Anslo, I don't think CCP Falcon is a groundhog who skitters back into his den and goes to sleep for another few years at the sight of constructive criticism.
The bit I'm presently critiquing is likely not so much the fault of anyone currently working for CCP. If they're easing us out of one of the last remaining Empyrean Age plotlines (aside from, you know, that whole war thing), I applaud the move. Like many here, I prefer a mobile setting to an immobile one.
However, I also want to take the opportunity to point to the vast IC/OOC knowledge divide TEA created and say, "Okay, I'm liking where this is going, but this? This, right here? This didn't work so well. Maybe no spoilers next time?"
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Anslo, I don't think CCP Falcon is a groundhog who skitters back into his den and goes to sleep for another few years at the sight of constructive criticism.
What part of any of the last few extremely bitter threads has been constructive? Because I fail to see the constructive part, at all. I see finger pointing, blaming, doom saying and absolute foolishness.
The bit I'm presently critiquing is likely not so much the fault of anyone currently working for CCP. If they're easing us out of one of the last remaining Empyrean Age plotlines (aside from, you know, that whole war thing), I applaud the move. Like many here, I prefer a mobile setting to an immobile one.
Fair deuce. Your OP and other threads didn't seem to be reflecting that though so pardon me if I remain on the extremely defensive side.
However, I also want to take the opportunity to point to the vast IC/OOC knowledge divide TEA created and say, "Okay, I'm liking where this is going, but this? This, right here? This didn't work so well. Maybe no spoilers next time?"
Then perhaps you should reconsider how you word things before you post them.
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Then perhaps you should reconsider how you word things before you post them.
How do you put it? "Not empty quoting."
Your post is moving from talking about the game to talking about people. That's not going to go anywhere.
If you feel the topic isn't to your liking there's no mandate to jump in to let everyone know.
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Dont know if I should join this conversation ot run while I still can.....
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Anslo, I don't think CCP Falcon is a groundhog who skitters back into his den and goes to sleep for another few years at the sight of constructive criticism.
What part of any of the last few extremely bitter threads has been constructive? Because I fail to see the constructive part, at all. I see finger pointing, blaming, doom saying and absolute foolishness.
The bit I'm presently critiquing is likely not so much the fault of anyone currently working for CCP. If they're easing us out of one of the last remaining Empyrean Age plotlines (aside from, you know, that whole war thing), I applaud the move. Like many here, I prefer a mobile setting to an immobile one.
Fair deuce. Your OP and other threads didn't seem to be reflecting that though so pardon me if I remain on the extremely defensive side.
However, I also want to take the opportunity to point to the vast IC/OOC knowledge divide TEA created and say, "Okay, I'm liking where this is going, but this? This, right here? This didn't work so well. Maybe no spoilers next time?"
Then perhaps you should reconsider how you word things before you post them.
I don't know, I guess i'm the only one that understood it the right way then...
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Dont know if I should join this conversation ot run while I still can.....
Run. Fly you fools!
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(http://cdn.themetapicture.com/media/funny-cat-Gandalf-fly-you-fools.jpg)
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Then perhaps you should reconsider how you word things before you post them.
How do you put it? "Not empty quoting."
Your post is moving from talking about the game to talking about people. That's not going to go anywhere.
If you feel the topic isn't to your liking there's no mandate to jump in to let everyone know.
So if I talk about how someone's interpretation of a game can impact a discussion about a game, I'm in the wrong. But if someone talks about my interpretation and attitude of new content in a game as, for lack of better terms, just accepting whatever when I shouldn't, that's ok?
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:oops:]
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Then perhaps you should reconsider how you word things before you post them.
How do you put it? "Not empty quoting."
Your post is moving from talking about the game to talking about people. That's not going to go anywhere.
If you feel the topic isn't to your liking there's no mandate to jump in to let everyone know.
So if I talk about how someone's interpretation of a game can impact a discussion about a game, I'm in the wrong. But if someone talks about my interpretation and attitude of new content in a game as, for lack of better terms, just accepting whatever when I shouldn't, that's ok?
Not going for it; start a new thread if you want, k?
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Hey what's going on in this threa----- Oh lawd.
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"NOPE!" - Activates jetpack. Flies away.
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"NOPE!" - Activates jetpack. Flies away.
I believe you're looking for this. :lol:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/Vulcan7/AbandonThread.gif)
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Perfect!
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I feel that an appropriate comparison, is to some of the point and click adventure games.
"that's a clue?", says a player, because the nature of the clue was not apparent.
Or a puzzle, wherein there is an electrical generator with a missing spark plug, a broken down truck with spark plugs in it, but a missing distributor cap, and the solution is to take the ignition wire and the spark plugs from the truck, and make them into a bola, to bring down a passing bird, which will vomit up a glow-worm, which you can put into a jar to make a lantern, with which to see into the darkened cave that is dark because the electrical generator that powers the lights isn't running, then you find the distributor cap in the cave.
And people look at you funny when you say you thought the solution was to take the spark plug from the truck and put it into the generator.
The storyline people have X number of brains. The EVE playerbase has nX number of brains. A multiple of the number of storyline people. So things are either worked out in very short order, faster than they can be published, or are so arcanely obtuse, that nobody works them out.
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Glow worm was genetically engineered by the Jove.
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/square/000/012/189/d7c.gif)
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Eh ... it's not like I'm going to try to string Anslo up by his tonsils or something.
I find the idea that we should be quiet rather than make suggestions puzzling rather than offensive.
I do feel a little misinterpreted, but ... whatever. That's probably my own cavalier tone getting in the way. A writer whose intent is misunderstood by the target audience is usually (definitionally?) not writing very well.
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I like Anslo. I like what he and others did with the Drifter report, I'm happy he got into the Canon, I liked the video, except that it wasn't long enough, and so forth.
I also like what CCP is doing with the Drifters, I like what they did with Burner missions, although I suck at them, and I like the communication they have with players.
I also like Silas, and his/her (not sure) criticisms of the game and suggestions. I wish they still played, because crazy Khanid blooder was awesome. Also enjoyed participating in the tournament they had.
I like Pieter, Pyre, and the members in it that I've interacted with. I think Pyre is just freaking awesome, I love their complete lack of giving fucks, I love the "we'll take anyone competent with a pulse and point them at our enemies" strategy, and I love the absolute snark they come up with. Pyre is like, to me, the living image of a badass State PMC - not the guys you hire for security, but the guys you hire when you absolutely need something done, right, and without a lot of careful handling. They. Are. Awesome.
I like Aria, or the player, anyway, because his character(s) are always very well thought out in execution (and possibly planning), and he is incredibly good at creating an immersive experience for anyone RPing with him. It's a lot of fun.
That does not entail, however, that I have to agree with any of the above because I like them. Nor is it true that my disagreement with all of the above, at some times, and at some points, meant I had ill will towards them or disliked them. I can think that what you are saying, at some moment, is totally wrong, and still think that you create interesting things, are an interesting person, and that I can get along with you.
Most of the time, I think that if you're creating content, you're creating good content. I enjoy it. Keep it up.
This is what I decided to say, rather than just eject from the thread.
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Vikarion:
Awwww.
Anslo:
So ... looking over things a bit, it seems like you're seeing this thread largely in the context of a series of other, overtly critical and sometimes deeply bitter threads. I guess I can see where you'd conclude that this was more of the same, or at least runs the risk of demotivating our good storyline-oriented devs.
If that's where the net effect went, then yeah, I guess I agree. Though I'd sort of want their thoughts (not that we're going to get them) before I concluded that my input was equally damaging.
To be entirely clear: I'm a vet, sure, but I ain't bitter. ... just opinionated when it comes to things that, from my point of view, unreasonably and unnecessarily inhibit my habitual role as an in-character theorycrafter.
In this case, that specifically means spoilers.
To my eye, that's the opposite of discouraging: I'm saying I appreciate their work enough that I'd like to be able to develop my own theories about it without foreknowledge that I'm necessarily wrong (or, worse, right).
"Please keep making neat stuff. Just please don't tell me what you're doing."
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vOv
It's still a matter of tone but that line of thought will go nowhere. So I'm out.
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vOv
It's still a matter of tone but that line of thought will go nowhere. So I'm out.
Not necessarily.
I'll happily concede that I wrote my OP, and at least one response, in a grumpy frame of mind. Ergo, the tone was grumpy.
I'm willing to own the grumpiness and even concede that it can be hard to distinguish grumpy from bitter.
Then again, I'm not sure I'd have bothered to post had I not been feeling grumpy. So I'm not quite ready to actually apologize for being a grump. It was a motivating factor in speaking up, and I do feel that what I said was worth saying.
I was, however, maybe impolitic in how much grumpiness I actually let seep into my remarks.
That, I'm sorry about.
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OP was fine, most of thread has been fine. Reread the first page or two.
EDIT to add:
It's a tough thing to figure out sometimes, how to introduce new gameplay items, ways of doing things, that will be introduced, without discussing how they are introduced.
IE here's the new sov mechanics and entosis links which uh, you'll find out about uh..
Difficult position.
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Or instead of being DD'ed...
They'll simply have the Drifters release the info (or players will find the info) from the observatories that confirms that Jamyl is a clone and has the Other and so on. Triggering the long-expected civil war.
... Yonis for Emperor.
We can't have that Samira.
Catiz for Empress!
Still I have to admit while I attempted to stay away from being a Sarum loyalist I really liked her character and am pretty disappointed that her role was, in my opinion, squandered in this manner.
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Catiz for Empress ! Buys everyone else with all the money, win the campaign !
Then get murdered by the amarrian batman...
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No Udorian will ever sit on the throne, no offense to you "Cash"- Murkon folks :p
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Then get murdered by the amarrian batman...
*continues sewing his 'Articio for Emperor' banners*
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*gets a match to light her flamethrower before kicking down the door to Arkon's pink velvet sewing room, where Integra hits the trigger, and makes the world a better place*
Hehe! :D
LET'S GO SARUM'S! LET'S GO!
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No Udorian will ever sit on the throne, no offense to you "Cash"- Murkon folks :p
Oh I don't know... They can leave the Empire and let them continue like penniless peasants.
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.
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Articio or Yonis for me. I'd be fine seeing either of those guys on the throne, based off of their character and what we've read about them doing.
No Catiz for me, though. As much as I would love to see a Tash Murkon on the throne just to snub at True Amarr who make fun of their Udorian background, Catiz no longer impresses me. Not after that "we're going to run out of slaves for our workforce, maybe we should start the Reclaiming" bit. :ugh:
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His Royal Highness Garkeh Khanid II the ever youthful (after 500 years....totally not cloning...rumors I tell you), laughs at your punk upstart Heirs.
His will be the throne.
As much as I'd like Khanid to take the reigns there's just always something so appealing about the one completely rebellious guy doing his own thing giving 0 fucks still on the Privy Council who all of the other Heirs hate with a passion.
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Articio or Yonis for me. I'd be fine seeing either of those guys on the throne, based off of their character and what we've read about them doing.
No Catiz for me, though. As much as I would love to see a Tash Murkon on the throne just to snub at True Amarr who make fun of their Udorian background, Catiz no longer impresses me. Not after that "we're going to run out of slaves for our workforce, maybe we should start the Reclaiming" bit. :ugh:
I have to admit that this line really struck me as weird. I wasn't expecting that from Catiz.
Or maybe she said it as pure boot licking aimed at her conservative detractors?
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Kor-Azor for the next empire house, etc.
No way. Khanid for Emperor. :yar:
I actually didn't read the whole thread. Don't want spoilers.
I didn't read all of TEA either. Tony's not bad, but I just wasn't fond of how the story was laced together. I have zero compassion/attachment to the character Jamyl, so...
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.
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Kor-Azor for the next empire house, etc.
No way. Khanid for Emperor. :yar:
I actually didn't read the whole thread. Don't want spoilers.
I didn't read all of TEA either. Tony's not bad, but I just wasn't fond of how the story was laced together. I have zero compassion/attachment to the character Jamyl, so...
No way, Khanid should rejoin the State and be reunited with their distant Achuran cousins!
Rejoin..?
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Kor-Azor for the next empire house, etc.
No way. Khanid for Emperor. :yar:
I actually didn't read the whole thread. Don't want spoilers.
I didn't read all of TEA either. Tony's not bad, but I just wasn't fond of how the story was laced together. I have zero compassion/attachment to the character Jamyl, so...
No way, Khanid should rejoin the State and be reunited with their distant Achuran cousins!
NEVAH.
It's not coincidental that two of my favorite chronicles feature Khanid II, and basically some of his only spoken dialog ever.
"Signs" remains just a wonderful example of Khanid telling the Theology Council to shove it, in eloquent and witty fashion.
http://community.eveonline.com/backstory/chronicles/signs-of-faith/
The other of course is "And I shall Hide" with some great Khanid and Heir bickering
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/And_I_Shall_Hide_-_Alternate_%28Chronicle%29
Khanid's dialog here is written extremely well, and he speaks exactly as I imagined.
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Kor-Azor for the next empire house, etc.
No way. Khanid for Emperor. :yar:
I actually didn't read the whole thread. Don't want spoilers.
I didn't read all of TEA either. Tony's not bad, but I just wasn't fond of how the story was laced together. I have zero compassion/attachment to the character Jamyl, so...
No way, Khanid should rejoin the State and be reunited with their distant Achuran cousins!
Rejoin..?
Well, they were allies before they got rereclaimed, at the very least.
Heading into derail but Kingdom was allies with State out of necessity, in order to upgrade their much smaller Royal Khanid Navy to handle the Empire at their door. That's why the khanid ships are armor tanking missile boats. Khanid is practical if anything and says the hell with tradition if it means keeping the Empire out for a few hundred more years.
And read that chronicle, Jamyl is dead-scared of Khanid at the council meeting. His eyes are everywhere, he knows everything.
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Catiz for Empress ! Buys everyone else with all the money, win the campaign !
Then get murdered by the amarrian batman...
I am the Amarrian Batman.
However frankly most of the other Heirs are boring as all hell. Starting schools in the Mandate? Pffff anyone can do that. Being tortured half to death before being regrown? I do that every day.
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You dare call Yonis boring?
I will OB you.
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/me quietly plots a return of Kador's good graces within the Empire. Cultural and intellectual superiority for the win.
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But... I thought you were the batman majordomo!
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Did this now turn into a 'heir popularity contest'? Duh. :s
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Slight necro, but for cause.
So ...
Called it!
:D :eek:
Uh ... so ... actual favorites for new emperor?
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Khanid. Because we'll be able to turn Samira's pure seething hatred into a new power source. >.> (Not to mention it'd be fucking hilarious.)
In all seriousness though, would rather wait and see where things are going a bit before picking favorites.
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I'll be damned.
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I think we all knew something of the sort was going to happen, but this was almost anticlimactic. I'm calling it now: when the new flagship gets used against the Drifters, it's going to have something akin to a Lux Kontos attached to it.
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Yonis for Emperor YC 117.
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Khanid would just mean a strong change in Amarr society, turning it to something more akin to the Kingdom, and that would be more or less even more brutal than the Moral Reform themselves...
RIP Amarr as you know it.
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Khanid would just mean a strong change in Amarr society, turning it to something more akin to the Kingdom, and that would be more or less even more brutal than the Moral Reform themselves...
RIP Amarr as you know it.
It would also result in political unity (absent shenanigans), which would be troublesome at the coding, lore, and mission-writing end.
Too much trouble. Can't see it happening.
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Yes, gameplay wise, it's a big no-no of course.
Unless they go for a personal union where the Amarr Empire is the subordinate partner of the two... That would mean an utterly impossible political unrest.
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Khanid would just mean a strong change in Amarr society, turning it to something more akin to the Kingdom, and that would be more or less even more brutal than the Moral Reform themselves...
RIP Amarr as you know it.
It would also result in political unity (absent shenanigans), which would be troublesome at the coding, lore, and mission-writing end.
Too much trouble. Can't see it happening.
They will do it and then just ignore the troubles on the coding, lore and mission-writing end. ;)