Backstage - OOC Forums
EVE-Online RP Discussion and Resources => EVE OOC Summit => Topic started by: Silas Vitalia on 26 Apr 2015, 23:15
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I'm not that familiar with what this entails, but from what I gather there are several out of game venues (twitter, etc), that the devs use to interact with eve subscribers?
I detect rustled jimmies that these out of game venues are used to both communicate and discuss content for RPers.
On the one hand, lots of game devs use twitter, facebook, whatever, to interact with players, set up events, and discuss the game.
On the other hand, EVE does already have a robust in game system for evemail, in game news, whatever that could also be used. I imagine some RPers feeling missing out on some things? Didn't they used to announce some of the live events on twitter and not in game or something?
What say you fine people?!
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It's the way it always was.
It's the way it always will be.
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Then maybe some people should take the initiative to look for those channels instead of bitching that they weren't advertised in neon lights. They were player made mediums that happened to work. That's it. It's not some grand conspiracy to exclude certain people.
You wanna reach CCP? Take the initiative and do the work to find the channels.
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Hey trying to be mellow here!
Does CCP advertise this sort of thing or is it more of a cool kids club? Or is it like just a well known thing that RPers in their rabbit holes just don't know for not interacting with the larger community?
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I have had contact with devs and actors in game and out of game, but it wasn't out of any special favoritism, more that I was either in the right place at the right time, or I had reached out to them with something they responded positively to.
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Does CCP advertise this sort of thing or is it more of a cool kids club?
Literally what did I just say? It is NOT a cool kids club. People just need to do their research.
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How can they do research for things they don't know about?
I don't think you mean it this way, but you sound like "I'm doing this cool thing, and you could be too if you just worked harder at finding out about stuff you don't know about"
So do they talk about the twitter/slackjack/whatever stuff in game or on the forums/website? Is it a thing most eve players know about?
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Then maybe some people should take the initiative to look for those channels instead of bitching that they weren't advertised in neon lights. They were player made mediums that happened to work. That's it. It's not some grand conspiracy to exclude certain people.
You wanna reach CCP? Take the initiative and do the work to find the channels.
This, really. As I said elsewhere, Slack is stupidly easy to get access to, and a bunch of us in the community have been using it and talking about it in places like OOC. If you want to get on it, either use the signup page that's been linked elsewhere, or contact one of the 21-person moderation team for a direct invite. Anslo, Lucas and myself can all do that for people.
And now that it's been posted - twice in the space of 15 minutes - how to get on Slack, I'd appreciate people knocking off the shit-stirring and getting started on getting off their asses to do something about this supposedly sekrit, walled-off thing that's never actually been secret or walled off at all. Anyone reading this post, or my other one, knows how to get on it now. If you want to be on Slack and don't act on this new knowledge, it's your own fault from now on, and you've forfeited any right to expect anyone to tolerate complaining about it.
How can they do research for things they don't know about?
I don't think you mean it this way, but you sound like "I'm doing this cool thing, and you could be too if you just worked harder at finding out about stuff you don't know about"
So do they talk about the twitter/slackjack/whatever stuff in game or on the forums/website? Is it a thing most eve players know about?
It has been discussed, openly, in OOC, on Twitter, and on the eve forums as well as here. There are over a thousand people using it. #lore is the second most populated channel of all channels on this particular Slack right now. If you are curious and cannot be bothered to go to fucking Google to look up something that is being discussed, and have to stir shit or make passive-aggressive snipes about how you aren't getting the attention you want ingame and think it's so unfair, looking in a mirror will tell you who is 100% at fault for any resulting discomfort on your end.
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The definition of a cool kids club would be a little known thing used by a small number of people to do cool things though, yea?
I don't have to have an exclusive policy at my nightclub if most people don't know about it.
I'm all about cross media engagement with the players though. They should be hitting all the things all the time to get the word out.
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Absolutely not shit stirring this is a good topic.
What I'm hearing is if you want to participate in this sort of activity you have to sign up for this thing, is that accurate?
I'm not signing up for the thing I don't care. But this is establishing a specific hoop to jump through for other players, just getting that info confirmed. It makes no difference to me who talks to the devs about what and who gets on the news page and whose content is cannon.
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EVE peaked at around 40,000 active characters today. Generous guesstimate suggests that about 25-30,000 of those were unique users. Possibly fewer. Tweetfleet's Slack has over 1,000 accounts on it, for comparison. That's not a small percentage when one considers that the majority of EVE players are not engaged with the community beyond just playing the game.
It was originally set up by members of #tweetfleet, EVE's Twitter community, as a better medium for discussions - either in real-time or delayed - that were made difficult by Twitter's 140-character limit. That Slack also doesn't require people to be tied to an EVE client 24/7 is a huge bonus as well. I can lose power at home, or internet, or whatever, then hop back on when things are working again and see exactly what I missed without having to bother people for logs. It also has very good mobile support, and is becoming popular with a number of alliances in EVE for setting up their own personal Slack teams.
There are, at the moment, about 25 CCP devs who are signed up on Slack. I would guess that maybe 10 of them use Slack even semi-regularly, and most of them primarily in the channels specific to the stuff they work on, like #devfleet or #lore rather than places like the default #general channel. They all have better things to be doing than spending time advertising for a service created by players for players. That they choose to use it at all is cool, but not required of them, and advertising it sure isn't their problem either.
Word of mouth is a thing. But so is initiative on the part of the user.
If you can't be bothered to act on things you hear or see, it's not everyone else's problem that you aren't involved.
It is no fucking different from signing up to Backstage.
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I think I might be only hearing half a conversation, I hope you aren't thinking I'm upset?
My discussion is about access, creation, and dissemination of content up and down the pipe, that's all.
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I think I take a bit of issue with that sort of attitude though, that people should have to do "x" amount of work over 'y' different platforms to get everything they want? I don't mind all the different ways players organize or socialize, i just see a lot of angry wording sort of "do this or screw you for being lazy" sort of thing and I'm not sure why?
I feel like I'm missing a lot of arguing in other mediums right now :)
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Whether you are upset or not is not really my concern, and I think you know me well enough that if you were upset about it I'd laugh at you and tell you to HTFU and/or STFU.
I will still call it shit-stirring, because the continued representation of it as some sort of gated thing where people have to jump through hoops to be involved by a number of people over the last few days is inaccurate, unhelpful, and incredibly rude when it's never been that much more involved than signing up to Backstage is.
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I am not going to get on twitter that I don't want to use for the pretty eyes of CCP. They already have ingame mediums, and they should use ingame mediums to do ingame related things. Which doesn't include their job mail addresses... @_@
The problem is not really that it's a cool kid club or not (even if it has the potential to be one), as I trust dev actors enough not to be tainted by the usual CCP corrupt and to include everyone happily in their shenanigans.
The problem is that it is not advertised at all and as Silas said, the only way to know about it is to notice that some people seem to get through devs, and then ask those people how did they manage that. Well as you can see, the last time I asked that on the conference thread, I was almost shat upon for whatever reason...
So yeah, don't tell us it's not gated or whatever, because a few days ago, you sure made it look like it was to me, and to other people too that are not hyped into your social networks.
Well, i'm certainly not going to hop on twitter for that, nor contacting them on their mail job addresses. If tha means I can't reach them out, so be it, I don't mind much, too bad...
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Well obviously i'm a clueless retard that is doing it wrong and never managed to know anything about it. Easy and obvious to tell otherwise when you are already in I guess. :(
I don't even know what Slack is. Is that related to twitter or something ? Seriously.
The only thing you seem to get here when trying to use word of mouth or try to get informed is flak and petty contempt.
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Well obviously i'm a clueless retard that is doing it wrong and never managed to know anything about it. Easy and obvious to tell otherwise when you are already in I guess. :(
I don't even know what Slack is. Is that related to twitter or something ? Seriously.
Slack is corp chat on my iPhone for me :)
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Well, that's all and good, but it's not for us at SFRIM apparently... And fortunately.
Edit : so, slack replaces your ingame channels because it's supposedly better... Okay, if you say so, I trust you on that since you are the users and I didn't even know what it was until now. I get that. Now then, it's browser based right ? Or smartphone based ? So, if I understand correctly, you people/users are basically telling us to buy a compatible phone, or another computer screen so that I can read slack while playing the actual game ? @_@
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It is no fucking different from signing up to Backstage.
Backstage is advertised.
Why are you so enraged over this discussion?
I say this as someone who completely agrees with your 'side' of what is apparently now an arguement.
This thread has been full of the people who have utilized this connection suddenly spitting bile because someone DARED bring it up, and it's starting to change my mind...
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Slack is billed as a productivity tool, and is awesome. I had not even heard of it until Ash (I think it was Ash) advertised the lore channel at the close of the Entosis podcast episode. IIRC I hopped on shortly after the stream ended, super easy. It's great to watch all these lore gurus work in realtime as well.
I mean I realize these aren't official channels, but ultimately CCP are a game company. The more people talk about them, tweet about them (I dont use twitter FWIW), blog/vlog about them, the better the chance that they reach potential subscribers. It seems like there are worse ways they could try to generate interest than by engaging players who are heavily invested in exploring the IP. Slack by its nature just happens to be a more efficient means of engagement at the moment, but it isn't the only means.
v0v
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If that is like a forum that doesn't require me to buy anything expensive IRL or whatever... I can definitely try to get on it if the medium is so precious... Like it was obligatory to get on comms (even without a mic) when doing pvp or that kind of things...
I find a bit disturbing the validity of CCP hammering the Summit/OOC when it proved to go against their non 'exclusionist' policy, then to find them doing the exact contrary here though... :psyccp:
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[mod]I just had to bin a thread regarding a community effort of all fucking things. This thread is rapidly spiralling out of control. My only suggestion is that you start debating and even try to read what people are writing as this is a very touchy subject evidently. This is as charitable as I'll get.[/mod]
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I just want to say as for new player experience, I just started an alt on a free trial, then I paid. But when I first logged in an isd member started a chat with me. I thought, holy shit this is it, I'm gonna be banned again. But no, he wanted to know if I was new and needed any help. I asked him about my bans and he said the best way to contact anyone in CCP is to petition and that he could help me make a petition but that was all we could do. So that's what the general population of eve thinks. Yes, millions of people use Twitter and Facebook and MySpace and Friendstr. I don't. I was told to petition by CCP. If they would have said anything about slack or becoming friends with CCP Falcon that would be a different story.
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Correct me if I am wrong but the issue here isn't with the utility of the "out of game" tool in question, never having heard of it let alone used it I am willing to accept statements that it is quite useful and handy, but rather with the public awareness of the tool - or indeed any tool/avenue that is used by CCP to allow the playerbase to engage/contact them?
Speaking as someone very new to EVE RP the only way I was aware of contacting CCP until recently was via the Faction Contacts, otherwise I was under the impression it was purely a wait for them to notice you sort of thing. And further to the point of "just look harder," just look harder how? If I Google EVE RP it returns the official forums, the wiki, and Backstage here on the first page, what would I look for to find this Slack thing? And if I start having to use specific terms and phrases, how would I know those without first being aware of the tool in question?
I should use social medias to get in touch with CCP might be a retort, but simply put I cannot. Not I don't want to, I cannot. I am a teacher, using social medias is literally one of the most dangerous things for me to do for my career, so no thank you I won't ever be on Twitter and I will be keeping my Facebook for family and close friends only.
So I guess I can see why this issue is problematic, and I don't think what people are asking for (clear and consistent methods and avenues for contacting and interacting with CCP) is unreasonable or accusatory.
I will probably regret posting this, but I just wanted to add my only little voice I guess. No offence was intended to anyone, and if it is taken allow me to offer my most sincere apologies.
-A
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Same Arkon, I just thought it was about faction contacts (recent thing btw) or just being noticed (or speaking with devs in private convos or something...) and I have been playing 8 years. At the very last it explains a lot of things.
Having to use third party software for official channel purposes is completely baffling to me. But I should know better, i'm not that naive after so many years... Or am I ?
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Slack is an out of game chat channel. That's all it is. It's a browser-based IRC with better functionality. It is less exclusive than in-game channels, because it does not require use of the EVE client or even a subscription.
Yes, it might be hard to find out about. But then, so are many RP channels, or even this very forum that we are all using right now, because that is the nature of social networking. I only learned about it two days ago. Once I did find out about it, I joined it. Very simple.
Yes, maybe it could be advertised more. But it's not some great evil clique. It's a chat channel that you don't have to log in to use.
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To the people concerned about using social medias for eve stuff. If you haven't noticed it already, then there are many eve players who are on twitter under their eve char identity. My twitter account has nothing to do with RL stuff: https://twitter.com/MizhirStarsurge I am normally not much active on social media but I have found that twitter, and now slack as well, is a great tool to get in touch with eveplayers without actually logging into the game and it will likewise serve as a great source of information. So I see no difference between that and this place in terms of commitment or gating. Everyone is welcome. And regarding advertisement. Both slack and this place (as well as ingame channels) have been spread through the users and if anyone asks about what slack is, people have told them about it.
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You mean, Miz, like "What ? You no know slack ? What kind of retard are you ? You would have to make it on purpose otherwise !"
Well it actually looks like the thing I was looking for to keep in touch when being at work, or away, for example, when I asked if there were any chatbox modules for SMF (backstage).
But I would be rather annoyed if it was for other purposes... I would be rather annoyed if someone told me to use that instead of corp chat for example. I don't have the patience to ctrl + alt everytime I want to check it while ingame...
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Right, so I rarely like to engage in these discussions, but in this case I feel that there's a lot of misinformation and assumptions being made. These are not being helped by those of us who use Slack yelling 'get with the program', so here's another perspective.
Let us do away with the following terms: friends with Falcon, CCP contact, interaction with DEVs. Slack does not provide these any more so than existing channels, indeed it has only facilitated what I would term 'pointless' discussion in the medium itself, like the Icelandic weather or story devs cackling like a Lord of Change over our tin foil discussions.
Let us also do away with terms form the other side: search and you will find, everyone knows about X. These are not helpful and the existence of this thread immediately highlights the fallacious premise upon which such statements are made. Those of you, like I, who use slack and have collaborated on ideas may feel attacked, but you are not under any threat here. Let's calm down.
So, to discuss what slack does and does not do. It does not give us an avenue to be buddy buddy with devs in a realistic and game changing manner. We discuss ideas openly with our peers and CCP essentially sits on high, much as they have done in the Summit and more recently in the IGS. It is a content aggregator, where our random thoughts can flow. Some fall off the end of the archive capacity never seen or to be seen again, some get our attention and we collaborate and some get CCP attention and they run with it. Twitter, Facebook and in game mechanisms all have a similar role in this - they are windows onto player created content, not an altar at which we make offerings to CCP.
That Slack gave rise to the recent Drifter corpse collaboration is almost coincidental. It facilitated the discussion of Anslo, Miz, Kalo and Kyber. Much of this collaboration happened behind closed doors, to the point where I did not even know Kyber was involved till the report came out. At some point someone on slack suggested they mail it in to CCP (as we once did for the faction actors), and they did. They got a response not due to the medium that forged their team or allowed discussion with outside elements, but because of the perceived quality of their work. It was good content, in line with the current storyline (which is all CCP have the resources to deal with I'd wager) and respectfully vague/hypothetical, allowing CCP to mold it to their whims.
The report itself was compiled without CCP input and Slack only provided the basis for these people to get in touch. It is not a magical tool for content generation, but it is a direct IV of player hypotheses and banter that anyone, CCP staff included, can peruse at their leisure. And this is the important point - the tool makes it simple to view potential content. Ease of viewing means ease of potential integration when you find a piece that you think matches, and CCP is rightfully driven to integrate player stories in every way due to the recent successes they have had marketing that aspect.
Slack is not the path to godhood some are selling it as or believe it to be. No more than any other means of contacting CCP. Consider this analogy: closed content submission to CCP is like a pipe. They want good stuff but in the pipe only a few things are visible form the end at a time. To get more you need more pipes, which means more observers. The bandwidth on content aggregation is low. On an open medium, such as social networks, forums and Slack; the content is viewable moving past you in open water. You can wade in and pick what you want. If you're not watching when something flows past, too bad - the content creator may resubmit or think of a new idea entirely and so that potential content flows off the end into nothingness. When choosing a medium to interact with, the time limited and resource constrained nature of CCP story line development involving our interaction will push them inevitably to the open medium. And yet they have still maintained a professional personal distance from us.
TL;DR: Slack is a workflow stream lining tool that is like IRC but with inline imaging and is a good way for players to discuss things WITH EACH OTHER. Do not expect CCP involvement or response unless they want ownership of your idea. It is not required for interaction - post good content anywhere and it is likely that those of us who ARE using slack will link it just because we like sharing cool things to do with our EVE passion. But obviously the more content streams you dabble in, the higher the chance of being spotted.
I hope this clears things up and I would appreciate if my fellow Slackers could assist anyone interested in using that medium to do so. Keep up the content creation everyone - those contributions that shine are promoted by the players, not selected by CCP form an altar of offerings - and by getting our attention and respect for a job well done, you market yourselves to CCP.
To make a point in a grandiose fashion: Look not to CCP for they look upon us dispassionately, but instead look to your fellow players, for when they clamor for your idea to be heard, then CCP knows they have something they can take to market.
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Do neat stuff.
It has the advantage of being neat whether or not CCP-senpai notices it or not.
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Do neat stuff.
It has the advantage of being neat whether or not CCP-senpai notices it or not.
This is basically what I should have written, but muh IRL write up has me all verbose 'n stuff.
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Good post Aelisha. It is spot on.
You mean, Miz, like "What ? You no know slack ? What kind of retard are you ? You would have to make it on purpose otherwise !"
Well it actually looks like the thing I was looking for to keep in touch when being at work, or away, for example, when I asked if there were any chatbox modules for SMF (backstage).
But I would be rather annoyed if it was for other purposes... I would be rather annoyed if someone told me to use that instead of corp chat for example. I don't have the patience to ctrl + alt everytime I want to check it while ingame...
I don't think I have read any posts where people have been mocked by not being on slack.
And the purpose of slack is not to replace ingame communication. If a corp does that then its a problem with them and not our use of slack. Instead it is an extra method of communicating with fellow eve players. For corporations that is particular useful when they need more people for something. Like when someone suddenly shows up and attacks your tower you can send out a ping to your members to tell them that.
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Do neat stuff.
It has the advantage of being neat whether or not CCP-senpai notices it or not.
I don't think anyone I saw here was disagreeing with this statement, after all how many of the stories we write or interactions we have which are so joyful for us to do or hear about have absolutely no larger impact beyond those individuals involved? Most I would hazard to say, and I for one will not stop these just because I am not noticed - I do them, and RP generally for my own enjoyment, nothing more. :)
However when you want to get in touch with CCP to deepen your RPs connection to the world I see nothing wrong with expecting their to be somewhere easily accessible and discoverable a list of the best avenues to do so. I would say the IGS, the wiki, and Backstage are certainly obvious because one need only to Google "EVE RP" and they will be returned on the first page.
I am not so certain if Slack or other avenues are firstly easily discoverable (I mean why would I need to ask for more avenues to contact CCP actors, my reading of the Faction Contacts thread was that this is where you are meant to go), nor necessarily easily accessible (Plenty of people, for varying and equally valid reasons, have no desire to use social medias).
My point is I think people are assuming that people are accusing others of doing something, or withholding something, which I at least am certainly not doing. I am glad to learn of Slack and if it doesn't require anything which might harm my career I will gladly partake of it; that said I think it would be best if there was somewhere a list of all the avenues to contact CCP about such things - I mean why can't they add it to their sticky on the IGS? Surely we can all agree this is a worthwhile thing for transparency's sake, and general utility.
Again I am not intending to cause offence, and if any is given I offer my sincere apologies.
-A
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Aelisha, I notice though that this is the only meaningful way to contact dev actors, especially since NPC faction contacts have been left forlorn into oblivion...
Which introduces a discrepancy between their policy on the matter of the Summit/OOC and their policy on this.
Good post Aelisha. It is spot on.
You mean, Miz, like "What ? You no know slack ? What kind of retard are you ? You would have to make it on purpose otherwise !"
Well it actually looks like the thing I was looking for to keep in touch when being at work, or away, for example, when I asked if there were any chatbox modules for SMF (backstage).
But I would be rather annoyed if it was for other purposes... I would be rather annoyed if someone told me to use that instead of corp chat for example. I don't have the patience to ctrl + alt everytime I want to check it while ingame...
I don't think I have read any posts where people have been mocked by not being on slack.
And the purpose of slack is not to replace ingame communication. If a corp does that then its a problem with them and not our use of slack. Instead it is an extra method of communicating with fellow eve players. For corporations that is particular useful when they need more people for something. Like when someone suddenly shows up and attacks your tower you can send out a ping to your members to tell them that.
Yes, I can see the merits of the thing, and it is interesting.
As for the insults, they are all in the katacombs right now to read if you have missed them... But whatever. No worries.
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The thing I wonder, is if CCP devs and lore actors are on this slack channel, and have left channels like the IGS, is because of the issue of noise/signal ratio, right ?
If so, it means that they are on slack because there is a lot less people and it's a lot more tolerable right ? In the hypothesis that slack becomes really popular, I mean more than 5-10% of RPers, then the issue will emerge again no ? It's a simple matter of math...
We have the same issue with RP events where there is like 50 RPers flooding the channel...
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The thing I wonder, is if CCP devs and lore actors are on this slack channel, and have left channels like the IGS, is because of the issue of noise/signal ratio, right ?
Actors are not on the channel. It is not an RP channel.
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The thing I wonder, is if CCP devs and lore actors are on this slack channel, and have left channels like the IGS, is because of the issue of noise/signal ratio, right ?
Actors are not on the channel. It is not an RP channel.
This. All of my this. Christ so many of you are acting so entitled.
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The thing I wonder, is if CCP devs and lore actors are on this slack channel, and have left channels like the IGS, is because of the issue of noise/signal ratio, right ?
Actors are not on the channel. It is not an RP channel.
So CCP do not use/watch the channel at all? If that is so and it is merely another community tool then definitely no need for it to have any more official attention. The only reason I weighed in was because I read things as CCP people use/watch the channel (or whatever Slack is) and so it might be considered a good avenue to get in touch with them; in which case I would like such things publicly listed for the sake of transparency and utility. :)
The thing I wonder, is if CCP devs and lore actors are on this slack channel, and have left channels like the IGS, is because of the issue of noise/signal ratio, right ?
Actors are not on the channel. It is not an RP channel.
This. All of my this. Christ so many of you are acting so entitled.
I do hope I am not coming across as entitled or in anyway rude for truly that is not my intention, if I am allow me to deeply apologise.
-A
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So I went on slack to see what it's about. One of the mods said this "Steve Ronuken: Anyway: This is a community site, run by the community, for the community. Any official presence is entirely unofficial. Not a good way to contact them".
Another mod said this "Anskek: And I am a mod here as well".
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The thing I wonder, is if CCP devs and lore actors are on this slack channel, and have left channels like the IGS, is because of the issue of noise/signal ratio, right ?
If so, it means that they are on slack because there is a lot less people and it's a lot more tolerable right ? In the hypothesis that slack becomes really popular, I mean more than 5-10% of RPers, then the issue will emerge again no ? It's a simple matter of math...
We have the same issue with RP events where there is like 50 RPers flooding the channel...
Lyn, there are already around 270 people in the #lore channel. It is far more active than OOC these days. A lot of the people there are not traditional "roleplayers", they are just people with an interest in the lore and slack is an excellent way for them to ask questions about things they don't understand or know.
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The thing I wonder, is if CCP devs and lore actors are on this slack channel, and have left channels like the IGS, is because of the issue of noise/signal ratio, right ?
Actors are not on the channel. It is not an RP channel.
So CCP do not use/watch the channel at all? If that is so and it is merely another community tool then definitely no need for it to have any more official attention. The only reason I weighed in was because I read things as CCP people use/watch the channel (or whatever Slack is) and so it might be considered a good avenue to get in touch with them; in which case I would like such things publicly listed for the sake of transparency and utility. :)
A few devs do watch the channel and occasionally offer input, just like they do on the OOC/Out of Character channels in-game. By no actors, I mean they are not there RPing NPC characters. It is a purely OOC medium.
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It is no fucking different from signing up to Backstage.
Backstage is advertised.
Why are you so enraged over this discussion?
I say this as someone who completely agrees with your 'side' of what is apparently now an arguement.
This thread has been full of the people who have utilized this connection suddenly spitting bile because someone DARED bring it up, and it's starting to change my mind...
This essentially. I don't care about whose talking to who where via what means. I care if people are being contemptuous about it. Absolutely ridiculous and the wrong attitude to be snotty about a thing, that is all. It should be a stupidly civil conversation, and that it is not seems silly. Come on now :)
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The more and less implicit accusations of collusion tend to get people's hackles up.
Otherwise, if there's nothing left to argue about except tone, could we just.. not do that at all? Those never go anywhere.
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The more and less implicit accusations of collusion tend to get people's hackles up.
Otherwise, if there's nothing left to argue about except tone, could we just.. not do that at all? Those never go anywhere.
That's the part I missed, the collusion thing. Of course there is "collusion" but that's not a bad thing, how else are the game people going to get neat stuff from players? We should all be so lucky to spend time on a thing and have it used, that is a good thing. I applaud those getting their hard work I to the game. Seriously, vwd.
People just need to A) not be jealous when talking about this stuff to the people involved, and B) be nice back.
Feel free to /thread if mids feel its done
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Exactly I don't think the issue was with the collusion - I would rather term it involvement - that is an awesome thing, and when it gives products like the Drifter report a wide spotlight that is just ace! :D
The issue or question was more how did that happen so we can emulate it? Where are these places to get CCP's attention at? And if one of these avenues isn't very well known why not? Could there be merit in making it more readily accessible and known? At least that has been my approach, if that makes sense. :)
And again allow me to offer profound apologies if I have offended anyone.
-A
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Collusion is an awsome thing. The problems only come when CCP says something like, "Hey, those guys were pretty cool, right? Why don't we ask them if they want to do <x thing> as well..." One too many times, without looking at other options. At that point, you get people dangerously close to becoming the protagonists of a multiplayer game.
I don't think that will happen, but I can get why people tend to fret about it. That's why we should be doing our best to make sure there aren't any closed circles, or even percieved closed circles.
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None of us are going to get any answers about how CCP works on this forum.
A question to the floor: have we resolved that slack is not a unique or more effective means of obtaining access to CCP? To follow, have we also resolved that Slack is not a platform that seeks to elevate some individuals above others?
I agree with Jev that if we're down to discussing tone, that is something that a forum thread is ill served to discuss. If however there are on going issues that we, the players, can address in a lack of knowledge regarding social media integration and the EVE meta game, then I for one welcome polite, concise questions on the matter.
Semantics aren't going to get us far and neither will hostility. I can deal with closed circles, but I for one cannot stop any man jack or woman jane among you from perceiving any circle I am in as closed if you so choose. I will entertain questions about how to solve the latter through telling you the means by which i got involved so you might do the same. The latter is probably best posed in the appropriate level of sociological study; I personally would not dare to redefine what you see, even if it is a closed door when there is none.
Let's focus on what we can learn and how we can contribute, here.
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I actually (maybe unpopular opinion here) want more collusion and pilfering of the player community stoof. Hoover that stuff up, there's pages and pages and pages of OC from players sitting idle.
I liked AURORA, I liked small events involving RPers all over with small, low stakes arcs that were cannon. People need to be excited about low stakes events and low stakes content, and have patience that it doesn't involve their character or their faction.
I don't want every dev thing to involve all peoples in galaxy shattering events. I want the B team of player DM's running small things, or including small content to flesh out the world.
I want them rotating through all the factions, doing events for all the things, tiny things, and moving on. This month it's a Serpentis event. Next month the TLF get tipped to take out a rogue fleet commander. Next month a new prayer book gets released to the Ni Kunni.
On and on.
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Well, a circle doesn't have to be locked to be closed. But what I mean is, there shouldn't be any places where CCP is interacting with the Roleplay/Lore community that is not very easy to find out about through in game channels. The solution to this is both:
1) CCP making it a bit clearer to everyone where they're watching, and
2) Us as a community making it clearer to everyone where we're operating.
Hopefully the two being the same thing.
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I actually (maybe unpopular opinion here) want more collusion and pilfering of the player community stoof. Hoover that stuff up, there's pages and pages and pages of OC from players sitting idle.
I liked AURORA, I liked small events involving RPers all over with small, low stakes arcs that were cannon. People need to be excited about low stakes events and low stakes content, and have patience that it doesn't involve their character or their faction.
I don't want every dev thing to involve all peoples in galaxy shattering events. I want the B team of player DM's running small things, or including small content to flesh out the world.
I want them rotating through all the factions, doing events for all the things, tiny things, and moving on. This month it's a Serpentis event. Next month the TLF get tipped to take out a rogue fleet commander. Next month a new prayer book gets released to the Ni Kunni.
On and on.
Silias, I gotta ask, how come you're getting so invested in this stuff? I was under the impression that you'd quit the game for good.
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I'm not playing the game but there are a lot of rad people who I like who still are?
I would be sad to not chat with you all and pack up and move out completely.
Also I'm drinking my coffee and delaying starting my work day :P
My job can be very high stress long hours so I like being off in Eve land sometimes.
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I'm not playing the game but there are a lot of rad people who I like who still are?
I would be sad to not chat with you all and pack up and move out completely.
Also I'm drinking my coffee and delaying starting my work day :P
Well, I didn't mean chatting in general. Just that you seemed to be passionately speaking about very specific things you'd like to see from CCP personally. You seemed more excited about it all then I would've expected!
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Perhaps my que to shut up as since I'm not giving them money anymore my opinions count for jack.
Hmm.
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Perhaps my que to shut up as since I'm not giving them money anymore my opinions count for jack.
Hmm.
Or perhaps a sign to return? :D
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It doesn't strike me that Gwen meant that at all, Silas. They seemed more surprised at your enthusiasm while not being directly involved in the game client aspects of the world. Possibly because they might not be so enthusiastic themselves were they not playing?
It will not do to accuse some of being reactionary and hostile, then doing so oneself.
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I come back to find a thread deleted and people upset...
Guys if you want to get help with talking with CCP in these channels why not just ask someone who created the paper or morwen or many others in that slack? No one is going to tell you no or to fuck off.
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It doesn't strike me that Gwen meant that at all, Silas. They seemed more surprised at your enthusiasm while not being directly involved in the game client aspects of the world. Possibly because they might not be so enthusiastic themselves were they not playing?
It will not do to accuse some of being reactionary and hostile, then doing so oneself.
Not a bit of hostility here, that comment was directed at myself, out loud. Apologies if construed otherwise.
Backstage is home to a lot of non-subscribers, it's the last EVE train stop is all.
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Silas no offense, and I'm sorry if this seems mean, but this entire situation has just seemed to me like a bunch of passive aggressive suggestions of favoritism presented in a 'civil' way for the sake of discourse that led to my thread being closed, our work being basically muddied, and now probably going to lead to another IA incident. If you really don't mean to stir shit as Morwen said, please let this fucking topic drop.
I'm already discouraged as it is.
No I don't need your reassurance. No I don't fucking want your explanation. If you actually do respect me and the others, drop this bullshit, all of you. At this point I don't even know if I wanna bother with this again given all the shit it got. I don't care about the intent behind your discourse in all this. Intent is irrelevant. How the message is received is all that matters.
I wanted to do something fun, I wanted to move the story along, I wanted you all to see the potential of what could happen here. But no, jealousy, bitterness, and nit picking at pointless details won the day. Congrats. You all won. I learned my lesson.
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Collusion is an awsome thing. The problems only come when CCP says something like, "Hey, those guys were pretty cool, right? Why don't we ask them if they want to do <x thing> as well..." One too many times, without looking at other options. At that point, you get people dangerously close to becoming the protagonists of a multiplayer game.
I don't think that will happen, but I can get why people tend to fret about it. That's why we should be doing our best to make sure there aren't any closed circles, or even percieved closed circles.
I can remember at least one case where it more or less happened, back in the sansha live events. Not sure if people really went mad over it, or at least, I don't remember well.
Actually maybe it was the same issue. Maybe people didn't know that day how to contact CCP but one or two players, who happened to monopolize most of the official/CONCORD info, as far as I recall.
Or maybe not. I wasn't privy to what was going on.
I come back to find a thread deleted and people upset...
Guys if you want to get help with talking with CCP in these channels why not just ask someone who created the paper or morwen or many others in that slack? No one is going to tell you no or to fuck off.
Well, that's what we actually tried to do here... : |
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I wanted to do something fun, I wanted to move the story along, I wanted you all to see the potential of what could happen here. But no, jealousy, bitterness, and nit picking at pointless details won the day. Congrats. You all won. I learned my lesson.
Uh. I might be misreading something here, but that's not the impression I got at all, of Silas or the thread.
I didn't know about these channels before, and now, having known, I'd like to figure out how to participate. If this thread hadn't been posted, I wouldn't have known.
As for accusations of favoritism...(obligatory whine :P ) I'm not really worried about under-the-table favoritism when CCP is doing things like having the Republic mindlessly attack the Fed so they can have more "Fed-wins-everything-yay!". It's like worrying about sunburn when one has just set one's pants on fire.
More to the point, I've been in the news two or three times myself. It's not that big a deal. Just enjoy the content CCP produced.
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So. Here's a thing.
For years, CCP has been stung by IA issues on in-game events and player involvement. Now, finally, we have a new wave of ambition from CCP to try to involve players in the lore, to the point that Max Singularity got a mention in the Scope Video ticker. :D
The trick? Do something that people love, and it'll get mentioned. If it's in the same vein as current events, if it's not self-aggrandizing, if it's popular or fun, it'll get a nod. Sure, popularity isn't a good filter for this sort of thing, but it's either that or they try to be content- and creator-neutral, which I guarantee will be terrible.
Otherwise, if too many people gripe about CCP's new push, you'll discourage the devs involved and we'll go back to a time when player activity is roundly ignored. :cry:
I know that we don't want this, and I know that's not the intent of people here? But y'know.
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So. Here's a thing.
For years, CCP has been stung by IA issues on in-game events and player involvement. Now, finally, we have a new wave of ambition from CCP to try to involve players in the lore, to the point that Max Singularity got a mention in the Scope Video ticker.
The trick? Do something that people love, and it'll get mentioned. If it's in the same vein as current events, if it's not self-aggrandizing, if it's popular or fun, it'll get a nod. Sure, popularity isn't a good filter for this sort of thing, but it's either that or they try to be content- and creator-neutral, which I guarantee will be terrible.
Otherwise, if too many people gripe about CCP's new push, you'll discourage the devs involved and we'll go back to a time when player activity is roundly ignored.
^^^^^ THIS
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I am not sure people are trying to push against player-dev interaction or collusion... That would be stupid...
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Silas no offense, and I'm sorry if this seems mean, but this entire situation has just seemed to me like a bunch of passive aggressive suggestions of favoritism presented in a 'civil' way for the sake of discourse that led to my thread being closed, our work being basically muddied, and now probably going to lead to another IA incident. If you really don't mean to stir shit as Morwen said, please let this fucking topic drop.
I'm already discouraged as it is.
No I don't need your reassurance. No I don't fucking want your explanation. If you actually do respect me and the others, drop this bullshit, all of you. At this point I don't even know if I wanna bother with this again given all the shit it got. I don't care about the intent behind your discourse in all this. Intent is irrelevant. How the message is received is all that matters.
I wanted to do something fun, I wanted to move the story along, I wanted you all to see the potential of what could happen here. But no, jealousy, bitterness, and nit picking at pointless details won the day. Congrats. You all won. I learned my lesson.
My issue is this:
Love me or hate me, I don't give a fuck
How is this hard to understand.
Save a NPC freighter, everyone congratulates you. Move the story along and everyone bitches.
Funny how this shit works, isn't it?
Mods, you can close this thread. Don't know why I fucking bother.
PS, you don't like that we got canonized?
Then do better scrubs.
I'm sorry but you know what pisses me off? That a frivolous thing like faction hoping and communication with CCP is being focused on instead of the hours of work WE PUT INTO THIS SHIT SO YALL COULDD HAVE FUN. There's more BITCHING and ungrateful petulant anger in here about fucking stupid ass details that could easily be seen as desperate times desperate fucking measures. To those who have gave constructive feed back, you rock. To those who thanked us, we will continue working. To those who can't see anything but a half empty glass, please butt out and rain on another parade. Jesus fucking Christ.
I like you Anslo but I find these comments less than helpful or inclusive. This has the exact opposite effect of getting people to participate.
And 0 passive aggressive here. It's the internet, if I'm aggressive it will be obvious. If I'm giving congrats I mean it. If I'm critical it doesn't mean I don't like a thing.
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Anslo's a lovable guy once you get his tendency to wave e-peen or beat his chest. ;)
(<3 Anslol.)
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Anslo's a lovable guy once you get his tendency to wave e-peen or beat his chest. ;)
(<3 Anslol.)
Oh I know, that's why I don't mind calling it out when I sees it. He knows hes good people. :yar:
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Wave seriously? You think this is about epeen?
Hah. Hahaha. Wow.
Fuck you all. I'm out o/
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No, Lyn, it's not.
People got mad that Anslo of all people got favorable attention from CCP for something cool that he and several other people did. His point about the freighters post-Caldari Prime was entirely valid - why do some people get a "\o/ yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay" thread for getting recognition while he gets flames and attacks and accusations of collusion and favoritism under some thin guise of "wait what's Slack"?
I am going to repeat myself another time.
Slack is an IRC analogue (just like EVE's chat system!) with server-side logging and in-line image and video support.
Slack has been openly discussed or mentioned in OOC, many times, since it was set up. Some people have asked about what it was, or googled it themselves, as a result. Some of them signed up afterward. Some people have done neither of those things. It is no more difficult than finding out about or signing up for Backstage, or any other internet forum that is not widely advertised.
And claiming Backstage is advertised in comparison is a bit disingenuous, while we're at it - it had a community spotlight 3 years ago done by Eterne, which didn't increase member count much, and is linked in the MOTD for OOC and Red's District. Beyond that, it's people mentioning it when people have things they've posted, and little else. Which is more or less what slack is getting, minus the MOTD mention - and nobody really reads MOTDs anyway, as I'm sure most of us are aware.
As for my personal irritation, I think Makoto summed it up well.
Someone goes out of their way to create high-quality content, CCP acknowledges it, then haters just crawl out of the woodwork and get mad that their stuff didn't get any attention when it was likely neither relevant to the storyline or sufficiently interesting to be worth a mention, or start throwing around insinuations or outright accusations of favoritism or collusion or gatekeeping, instead of being congratulatory for four of our own getting a whole fucking Scope video and a very small event ingame to occur based on that work, and politely - I stress politely rather than the passive-aggressive sniping that occurred - inquiring about the process by which it happened, or where discussion was taking place.
So Anslo's response really should not be surprising. I've already been pretty near to that point for a few months.
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*sighs* and then people wonder why I never mention backstage to new players. The level of salt could rival a Roman salt mine and the past few days seems people have taken to forum pvp. I'm out for a bit too, send questions to eve mail if you have any and enjoy rubbing that sand into pearls.
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So Anslo's response really should not be surprising. I've already been pretty near to that point for a few months.
I'm surprised by both of your replies lately. You have to admit the above reply from A
Fuck you all. I'm out o/
is a bit beyond the pale, yes? Is there an obscene amount of bitter coming your way privately lately or what?
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No, Lyn, it's not.
Huh ? What ?
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There is a lot of bitter all over the place lately, Silas. Just keep it in mind a wee bit when you are in conversation with someone. Since I came back to EVE recently, even I was blindsided by some of the bitterness I saw in-game. It's not Morwen.
Edit: The toxicity I have noticed since coming back has shifted my opinion on this whole topic. It used to be that I would have been one of the naysayers about much that seems to be happening. Now? We are lucky that people are even talking to each other or that CCP is taking notice of anything. If I don't like something I just won't be involved, but bless whoever makes content at this point.
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There is a lot of bitter all over the place lately, Silas. Just keep it in mind a wee bit when you are in conversation with someone. Since I came back to EVE recently, even I was blindsided by some of the bitterness I saw in-game. It's not Morwen.
I understand there might be a wider context of 'bitterness' I'm not privy to, thank you for pointing that out.
That needs to be directed back at or around those particular people though; we're all nice adults typing into the internet about a computer game, let's not lose context.
My day and my life (and none of yours) is materially effected if Morwen or Anslo or Graelyn is on the eve front page for assassinating Jamyl or marring Tibus Heth or making babies with the Drifter Queen. Head shaking and internet criticism yes, real life anger or upsetness, no.
None of this is that important to be telling people to fuck off or to let some stranger on the internet get you that upset.
Edit: Is it that bad lately for real?
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There is a lot of bitter all over the place lately, Silas. Just keep it in mind a wee bit when you are in conversation with someone. Since I came back to EVE recently, even I was blindsided by some of the bitterness I saw in-game. It's not Morwen.
I understand there might be a wider context of 'bitterness' I'm not privy to, thank you for pointing that out.
That needs to be directed back at or around those particular people though; we're all nice adults typing into the internet about a computer game, let's not lose context.
Edit: Is it that bad lately for real?
In my experience since returning, yes. It is possible that a roll of the dice meant that I saw more than is representative when I returned, but that would have to be something others confirm.
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honest question
which In-game chat channels are actually aimed to talk about roleplaying these days? i left #live-events and other similar channels once it became clear everyone was a little too eager to participate ...
It's the first time i've seen the #lore channel mentioned....i know corps have channels for each of them (which are listed in a neat sticky somehwere in the site)....but the rest is just "here be dragons" kind of situation....
Don't quite have the time to do much research (a 2 year old kid and plenty of work) but i would still wish to be in the loop of the cool RP things happening....so to whom should i send a PM with inquiries?
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Anslo, Mizhir, Liuni/Kalo, and Kyber went above and beyond to pick up the lore ball and run with it. The paper was published on IGS and was mentioned notably on the Hydrostatic Entosis lore podcast. And they got recognized by CCP for it.
Want to know the real kicker? Anslo will be the first one to credit those who worked on it with him.
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Yes, Silas - the community is in a horrible state. Anslo mentioned 'faction hopping' and favouritism as being the two things that people are most interested in - and he's bang on 100% right.
My own experience with the RP community has turned Eve from a near-obsession to something I log into when I know a fleet is going out - something I have Slack to thank for, ironically, since I don't have to be logged in to know what's happening in my alliance now. Quite frankly, the ability of some people to be OOC hostile to me because of the people I fly with initially shocked me, but events like these are increasingly common and my experience is certainly not novel.
Now, I took your comments in the light of "I'm confused, please educate me about what I'm seeing and not understanding." but certain people in this community are always setting a wire and then hiding in the bushes so that they can leap out and get their feelings hurt.
I'm not surprised that the horribly under-resourced Eve Community team has latched onto Slack as a low-maintenance way of interacting with a large chunk of their currently interested userbase. Should they? No. But they don't have the resources to do the job properly and it's either something like this (used to be the IGS and was LiveEvents after that) or nothing.
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Yes, Silas - the community is in a horrible state. Anslo mentioned 'faction hopping' and favouritism as being the two things that people are most interested in - and he's bang on 100% right.
My own experience with the RP community has turned Eve from a near-obsession to something I log into when I know a fleet is going out - something I have Slack to thank for, ironically, since I don't have to be logged in to know what's happening in my alliance now. Quite frankly, the ability of some people to be OOC hostile to me because of the people I fly with initially shocked me, but events like these are increasingly common and my experience is certainly not novel.
Now, I took your comments in the light of "I'm confused, please educate me about what I'm seeing and not understanding." but certain people in this community are always setting a wire and then hiding in the bushes so that they can leap out and get their feelings hurt.
I'm not surprised that the horribly under-resourced Eve Community team has latched onto Slack as a low-maintenance way of interacting with a large chunk of their currently interested userbase. Should they? No. But they don't have the resources to do the job properly and it's either something like this (used to be the IGS and was LiveEvents after that) or nothing.
Nice post, thank you.
Half confused, only. But if I want to disagree with people I usually just do it, I don't feel a need to be passive aggressive as I'm not out to get anyone if I disagree with them or not.
If people read some of my thread topics as argument baiting I apologize, and please believe I'm trying to be somewhat neutral and give people a venue to discuss the things in hopefully a civil environs, If I agree or not with the posters.
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omg, so much dramalama 'cause of a good thing it's bloody hilarious. :D
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Apparently telling people they did an awesome job is a personal attack. Whatever.
The autopsy trailer was awesome guys, I enjoyed it. :P
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To the people concerned about using social medias for eve stuff. If you haven't noticed it already, then there are many eve players who are on twitter under their eve char identity. My twitter account has nothing to do with RL stuff: https://twitter.com/MizhirStarsurge I am normally not much active on social media but I have found that twitter, and now slack as well, is a great tool to get in touch with eveplayers without actually logging into the game and it will likewise serve as a great source of information. So I see no difference between that and this place in terms of commitment or gating. Everyone is welcome. And regarding advertisement. Both slack and this place (as well as ingame channels) have been spread through the users and if anyone asks about what slack is, people have told them about it.
Same. Arkon, you can just make a char called Eve-Arkon or something on twitter and no one needs to know who you are in rl!
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Though it can be amusing when people forget whether a Twitter feed is IC or OOC. For mine, they are me the player not the character. Some folks have gone the other route and made them an IC broadcast.
That being said, a tend to prefer Slack to Twitter because Slack groups are more cohesive than Twitter lists. I'm not actually a member of any of the roleplayer/content Slacks since it became a thing while I was away from EVE - but I do use it for other EVE friends.
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To the people concerned about using social medias for eve stuff. If you haven't noticed it already, then there are many eve players who are on twitter under their eve char identity. My twitter account has nothing to do with RL stuff: https://twitter.com/MizhirStarsurge I am normally not much active on social media but I have found that twitter, and now slack as well, is a great tool to get in touch with eveplayers without actually logging into the game and it will likewise serve as a great source of information. So I see no difference between that and this place in terms of commitment or gating. Everyone is welcome. And regarding advertisement. Both slack and this place (as well as ingame channels) have been spread through the users and if anyone asks about what slack is, people have told them about it.
Same. Arkon, you can just make a char called Eve-Arkon or something on twitter and no one needs to know who you are in rl!
Thanks Mizhir and Luna :D I might look into doing that, I am insanely cautious about social medias what with being a teacher it isn't a joke to say they can ruin your career :P But that is a good idea so thanks for bring it up :)
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To the people concerned about using social medias for eve stuff. If you haven't noticed it already, then there are many eve players who are on twitter under their eve char identity. My twitter account has nothing to do with RL stuff: https://twitter.com/MizhirStarsurge I am normally not much active on social media but I have found that twitter, and now slack as well, is a great tool to get in touch with eveplayers without actually logging into the game and it will likewise serve as a great source of information. So I see no difference between that and this place in terms of commitment or gating. Everyone is welcome. And regarding advertisement. Both slack and this place (as well as ingame channels) have been spread through the users and if anyone asks about what slack is, people have told them about it.
Same. Arkon, you can just make a char called Eve-Arkon or something on twitter and no one needs to know who you are in rl!
Thanks Mizhir and Luna :D I might look into doing that, I am insanely cautious about social medias what with being a teacher it isn't a joke to say they can ruin your career :P But that is a good idea so thanks for bring it up :)
Depending on how paranoid you are, you can exclusively connect to Twitter via a proxy server.
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Incidentally, how can I get an invite to this channel?
EDIT: thanks morwen!
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This probably doesn't belong in this thread given the last six pages of how it's turned out and the unfortunate way Anslo's first thread got canned but anyway...
Anslo, Kyber, Kalo and Mizhir - speaking from a medical perspective myself, your two reports were immersive and really well put together.
Nicely done and thanks for the effort made.
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This probably doesn't belong in this thread given the last six pages of how it's turned out and the unfortunate way Anslo's first thread got canned but anyway...
Anslo, Kyber, Kalo and Mizhir - speaking from a medical perspective myself, your two reports were immersive and really well put together.
Nicely done and thanks for the effort made.
Thanks for the kind words!